OT: Talk me out of my anti-partisian views.

[XBoxBoy]

[quote=aldante]
Dr. Paul has run as a third party candidate before and as such probably has a unique experience. …snip… He says that the most pragmatic approach should be to change the parties from within. [/quote]

Aldante,

I have always admired Dr Paul, if nothing else because of the honesty of his convictions. I often differ with him about things but at least he’s honestly trying to find solutions, and not just mouthing a bunch of meaningless platitudes like so many politicians.

But, I’m afraid that I’ve lost most of my belief that someone like myself can make any difference to the Dems or Repubs. Maybe if I was willing to commit lots of time to be actively involved with a party I could influence a few local issues slightly. But on the grander scale, I’m afraid I don’t see it. (Of course on the grand scale voting for third parties isn’t likely to change anything either.)

XBoxBoy

[Anonymous]

[quote]Flat tax is not a simple solution. It is a simple idea put forward by simpletons.[/quote]

Harsh but true.

The challenge with income tax is defining exactly “income” is.

[Anonymous]

[quote]Flat tax is not a simple solution. It is a simple idea put forward by simpletons.[/quote]

Harsh but true.

The challenge with income tax is defining exactly “income” is.

[Anonymous]

[quote]Flat tax is not a simple solution. It is a simple idea put forward by simpletons.[/quote]

Harsh but true.

The challenge with income tax is defining exactly “income” is.

[Anonymous]

[quote]Flat tax is not a simple solution. It is a simple idea put forward by simpletons.[/quote]

Harsh but true.

The challenge with income tax is defining exactly “income” is.

[Anonymous]

[quote]Flat tax is not a simple solution. It is a simple idea put forward by simpletons.[/quote]

Harsh but true.

The challenge with income tax is defining exactly “income” is.

[briansd1]

[quote=Allan from Fallbrook]

It may piss you off to no end, Brian, but guys like Rove are selling the idea of a return to 1950s America, and the message is being eagerly purchased by a huge bloc of pissed-off white people, who feel disenfranchised by the system and are further infuriated by what they perceive as a move to a European-style nanny state.

[/quote]

We cannot return to the 1950s because it was a unique time in history when America was the only large consumer market. We now have competition from around the world.

I have a friend from Italy who works in America as an executive for a major US corporation on an L-1 visa. Back in the 1950s American corporations used to send their employees abroad because nobody could do the work.

I will focus on working-class whites because if the Republicans win this November, it will be thanks to their votes.

I agree with you that that there is a “huge bloc of pissed-off white people, who feel disenfranchised by the system and are further infuriated by what they perceive as a move to a European-style nanny state.”

IMHO, those white people’s anger is misplaced. What is the last refuge for those working-class whites but the very social safety net that they want to dismantle?

White-Americans for a long time enjoyed an ever increasing standard of living, thanks to America’s political, economic and military position post WWI and then post WWII.

The best bet for working-class Whites to continue to enjoy prosperous lives is to support:

– a strong national industrial and economic policy,
– a strong safety net,
– better free public education for their kids,
– a labor policy that works in conjunction for foreign policy to encourage and nudge emerging countries such as China to improve their own labor standards and social safety nets.

The Tea Party offers none of that.

The Tea Party offers mean rhetoric and an outlet for people to vent their anger at costumed parties. Nothing else.

Working class White folks will eventually realize that Republican policies offers them nothing.

I personally see the Tea Party as subversion of conservative ideals. I expect conservatives to be deliberative, well-spoken, well-educated and well-dressed people (like in the 1950s). But conservatives are becoming vulgar, loud-mouthed, sloppily dressed folks (imagine working-class Beck and Limbaugh in couch potato attire).

Back in the 1950s the likes of Palin and O’Donnell would not be welcomed in conservative circles.

The conservatives who want to go back to the 1950s never belonged there.

http://www.time.com/time/politics/article/0,8599,2023907,00.html

[briansd1]

[quote=Allan from Fallbrook]

It may piss you off to no end, Brian, but guys like Rove are selling the idea of a return to 1950s America, and the message is being eagerly purchased by a huge bloc of pissed-off white people, who feel disenfranchised by the system and are further infuriated by what they perceive as a move to a European-style nanny state.

[/quote]

We cannot return to the 1950s because it was a unique time in history when America was the only large consumer market. We now have competition from around the world.

I have a friend from Italy who works in America as an executive for a major US corporation on an L-1 visa. Back in the 1950s American corporations used to send their employees abroad because nobody could do the work.

I will focus on working-class whites because if the Republicans win this November, it will be thanks to their votes.

I agree with you that that there is a “huge bloc of pissed-off white people, who feel disenfranchised by the system and are further infuriated by what they perceive as a move to a European-style nanny state.”

IMHO, those white people’s anger is misplaced. What is the last refuge for those working-class whites but the very social safety net that they want to dismantle?

White-Americans for a long time enjoyed an ever increasing standard of living, thanks to America’s political, economic and military position post WWI and then post WWII.

The best bet for working-class Whites to continue to enjoy prosperous lives is to support:

– a strong national industrial and economic policy,
– a strong safety net,
– better free public education for their kids,
– a labor policy that works in conjunction for foreign policy to encourage and nudge emerging countries such as China to improve their own labor standards and social safety nets.

The Tea Party offers none of that.

The Tea Party offers mean rhetoric and an outlet for people to vent their anger at costumed parties. Nothing else.

Working class White folks will eventually realize that Republican policies offers them nothing.

I personally see the Tea Party as subversion of conservative ideals. I expect conservatives to be deliberative, well-spoken, well-educated and well-dressed people (like in the 1950s). But conservatives are becoming vulgar, loud-mouthed, sloppily dressed folks (imagine working-class Beck and Limbaugh in couch potato attire).

Back in the 1950s the likes of Palin and O’Donnell would not be welcomed in conservative circles.

The conservatives who want to go back to the 1950s never belonged there.

http://www.time.com/time/politics/article/0,8599,2023907,00.html

[briansd1]

[quote=Allan from Fallbrook]

It may piss you off to no end, Brian, but guys like Rove are selling the idea of a return to 1950s America, and the message is being eagerly purchased by a huge bloc of pissed-off white people, who feel disenfranchised by the system and are further infuriated by what they perceive as a move to a European-style nanny state.

[/quote]

We cannot return to the 1950s because it was a unique time in history when America was the only large consumer market. We now have competition from around the world.

I have a friend from Italy who works in America as an executive for a major US corporation on an L-1 visa. Back in the 1950s American corporations used to send their employees abroad because nobody could do the work.

I will focus on working-class whites because if the Republicans win this November, it will be thanks to their votes.

I agree with you that that there is a “huge bloc of pissed-off white people, who feel disenfranchised by the system and are further infuriated by what they perceive as a move to a European-style nanny state.”

IMHO, those white people’s anger is misplaced. What is the last refuge for those working-class whites but the very social safety net that they want to dismantle?

White-Americans for a long time enjoyed an ever increasing standard of living, thanks to America’s political, economic and military position post WWI and then post WWII.

The best bet for working-class Whites to continue to enjoy prosperous lives is to support:

– a strong national industrial and economic policy,
– a strong safety net,
– better free public education for their kids,
– a labor policy that works in conjunction for foreign policy to encourage and nudge emerging countries such as China to improve their own labor standards and social safety nets.

The Tea Party offers none of that.

The Tea Party offers mean rhetoric and an outlet for people to vent their anger at costumed parties. Nothing else.

Working class White folks will eventually realize that Republican policies offers them nothing.

I personally see the Tea Party as subversion of conservative ideals. I expect conservatives to be deliberative, well-spoken, well-educated and well-dressed people (like in the 1950s). But conservatives are becoming vulgar, loud-mouthed, sloppily dressed folks (imagine working-class Beck and Limbaugh in couch potato attire).

Back in the 1950s the likes of Palin and O’Donnell would not be welcomed in conservative circles.

The conservatives who want to go back to the 1950s never belonged there.

http://www.time.com/time/politics/article/0,8599,2023907,00.html

[briansd1]

[quote=Allan from Fallbrook]

It may piss you off to no end, Brian, but guys like Rove are selling the idea of a return to 1950s America, and the message is being eagerly purchased by a huge bloc of pissed-off white people, who feel disenfranchised by the system and are further infuriated by what they perceive as a move to a European-style nanny state.

[/quote]

We cannot return to the 1950s because it was a unique time in history when America was the only large consumer market. We now have competition from around the world.

I have a friend from Italy who works in America as an executive for a major US corporation on an L-1 visa. Back in the 1950s American corporations used to send their employees abroad because nobody could do the work.

I will focus on working-class whites because if the Republicans win this November, it will be thanks to their votes.

I agree with you that that there is a “huge bloc of pissed-off white people, who feel disenfranchised by the system and are further infuriated by what they perceive as a move to a European-style nanny state.”

IMHO, those white people’s anger is misplaced. What is the last refuge for those working-class whites but the very social safety net that they want to dismantle?

White-Americans for a long time enjoyed an ever increasing standard of living, thanks to America’s political, economic and military position post WWI and then post WWII.

The best bet for working-class Whites to continue to enjoy prosperous lives is to support:

– a strong national industrial and economic policy,
– a strong safety net,
– better free public education for their kids,
– a labor policy that works in conjunction for foreign policy to encourage and nudge emerging countries such as China to improve their own labor standards and social safety nets.

The Tea Party offers none of that.

The Tea Party offers mean rhetoric and an outlet for people to vent their anger at costumed parties. Nothing else.

Working class White folks will eventually realize that Republican policies offers them nothing.

I personally see the Tea Party as subversion of conservative ideals. I expect conservatives to be deliberative, well-spoken, well-educated and well-dressed people (like in the 1950s). But conservatives are becoming vulgar, loud-mouthed, sloppily dressed folks (imagine working-class Beck and Limbaugh in couch potato attire).

Back in the 1950s the likes of Palin and O’Donnell would not be welcomed in conservative circles.

The conservatives who want to go back to the 1950s never belonged there.

http://www.time.com/time/politics/article/0,8599,2023907,00.html

[briansd1]

[quote=Allan from Fallbrook]

It may piss you off to no end, Brian, but guys like Rove are selling the idea of a return to 1950s America, and the message is being eagerly purchased by a huge bloc of pissed-off white people, who feel disenfranchised by the system and are further infuriated by what they perceive as a move to a European-style nanny state.

[/quote]

We cannot return to the 1950s because it was a unique time in history when America was the only large consumer market. We now have competition from around the world.

I have a friend from Italy who works in America as an executive for a major US corporation on an L-1 visa. Back in the 1950s American corporations used to send their employees abroad because nobody could do the work.

I will focus on working-class whites because if the Republicans win this November, it will be thanks to their votes.

I agree with you that that there is a “huge bloc of pissed-off white people, who feel disenfranchised by the system and are further infuriated by what they perceive as a move to a European-style nanny state.”

IMHO, those white people’s anger is misplaced. What is the last refuge for those working-class whites but the very social safety net that they want to dismantle?

White-Americans for a long time enjoyed an ever increasing standard of living, thanks to America’s political, economic and military position post WWI and then post WWII.

The best bet for working-class Whites to continue to enjoy prosperous lives is to support:

– a strong national industrial and economic policy,
– a strong safety net,
– better free public education for their kids,
– a labor policy that works in conjunction for foreign policy to encourage and nudge emerging countries such as China to improve their own labor standards and social safety nets.

The Tea Party offers none of that.

The Tea Party offers mean rhetoric and an outlet for people to vent their anger at costumed parties. Nothing else.

Working class White folks will eventually realize that Republican policies offers them nothing.

I personally see the Tea Party as subversion of conservative ideals. I expect conservatives to be deliberative, well-spoken, well-educated and well-dressed people (like in the 1950s). But conservatives are becoming vulgar, loud-mouthed, sloppily dressed folks (imagine working-class Beck and Limbaugh in couch potato attire).

Back in the 1950s the likes of Palin and O’Donnell would not be welcomed in conservative circles.

The conservatives who want to go back to the 1950s never belonged there.

http://www.time.com/time/politics/article/0,8599,2023907,00.html

[SK in CV]

[quote=pri_dk][quote]Flat tax is not a simple solution. It is a simple idea put forward by simpletons.[/quote]

Harsh but true.

The challenge with income tax is defining exactly “income” is.[/quote]

I think I said almost those exact words earlier in this thread. The tax rate schedules for both individuals and corporations have about 5 or 6 different rates. There were some years in the past, when I was preparing hundreds of returns, I practically had them memorized. It’s a calculation that takes literally a few seconds with a calculator. It is less than 1% of the complexity of the tax code. There are plenty of ways to make the tax code simpler. (And most all of those would have economic and political ramifications.) A flat tax isn’t one of them.

[SK in CV]

[quote=pri_dk][quote]Flat tax is not a simple solution. It is a simple idea put forward by simpletons.[/quote]

Harsh but true.

The challenge with income tax is defining exactly “income” is.[/quote]

I think I said almost those exact words earlier in this thread. The tax rate schedules for both individuals and corporations have about 5 or 6 different rates. There were some years in the past, when I was preparing hundreds of returns, I practically had them memorized. It’s a calculation that takes literally a few seconds with a calculator. It is less than 1% of the complexity of the tax code. There are plenty of ways to make the tax code simpler. (And most all of those would have economic and political ramifications.) A flat tax isn’t one of them.

[SK in CV]

[quote=pri_dk][quote]Flat tax is not a simple solution. It is a simple idea put forward by simpletons.[/quote]

Harsh but true.

The challenge with income tax is defining exactly “income” is.[/quote]

I think I said almost those exact words earlier in this thread. The tax rate schedules for both individuals and corporations have about 5 or 6 different rates. There were some years in the past, when I was preparing hundreds of returns, I practically had them memorized. It’s a calculation that takes literally a few seconds with a calculator. It is less than 1% of the complexity of the tax code. There are plenty of ways to make the tax code simpler. (And most all of those would have economic and political ramifications.) A flat tax isn’t one of them.

[SK in CV]

[quote=pri_dk][quote]Flat tax is not a simple solution. It is a simple idea put forward by simpletons.[/quote]

Harsh but true.

The challenge with income tax is defining exactly “income” is.[/quote]

I think I said almost those exact words earlier in this thread. The tax rate schedules for both individuals and corporations have about 5 or 6 different rates. There were some years in the past, when I was preparing hundreds of returns, I practically had them memorized. It’s a calculation that takes literally a few seconds with a calculator. It is less than 1% of the complexity of the tax code. There are plenty of ways to make the tax code simpler. (And most all of those would have economic and political ramifications.) A flat tax isn’t one of them.

[Author]

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