OT: Public pay & benefits

[jstoesz]

[quote]BTW, those salaries/benefits are recycled back into the economy as these employees spend their money. It is far better than “investments” by rich people that have a debt offset (require repayment PLUS interest/dividends).[/quote]

You are comparing apples and oranges. The money that the public sector is paid is from taxes. It is not organically grown from productive enterprises. Your argument amounts to a thief taking money from a cash register and then spending it in that very business as some sort of repayment.

[CA renter]

[quote=jstoesz][quote]BTW, those salaries/benefits are recycled back into the economy as these employees spend their money. It is far better than “investments” by rich people that have a debt offset (require repayment PLUS interest/dividends).[/quote]

You are comparing apples and oranges. The money that the public sector is paid is from taxes. It is not organically grown from productive enterprises. Your argument amounts to a thief taking money from a cash register and then spending it in that very business as some sort of repayment.[/quote]

It’s not whether something is provided by private or public enterprise that determines value, it’s whether or not the things provided are demanded or necessary for society to function in the most efficient and beneficial way possible.

If you think that NOT paying taxes is what makes a country rich, can you please provide an example of a single successful country where there are no/few taxes and a weak/non-existent government?

Here, you can sort by spending, wealth, literacy, health outcomes, etc. PLEASE, just find ONE example of a country with low/no-taxes that outperforms socialist countries.

http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/eco_hum_dev_ind-economy-human-development-index

[CA renter]

[quote=jstoesz][quote]BTW, those salaries/benefits are recycled back into the economy as these employees spend their money. It is far better than “investments” by rich people that have a debt offset (require repayment PLUS interest/dividends).[/quote]

You are comparing apples and oranges. The money that the public sector is paid is from taxes. It is not organically grown from productive enterprises. Your argument amounts to a thief taking money from a cash register and then spending it in that very business as some sort of repayment.[/quote]

It’s not whether something is provided by private or public enterprise that determines value, it’s whether or not the things provided are demanded or necessary for society to function in the most efficient and beneficial way possible.

If you think that NOT paying taxes is what makes a country rich, can you please provide an example of a single successful country where there are no/few taxes and a weak/non-existent government?

Here, you can sort by spending, wealth, literacy, health outcomes, etc. PLEASE, just find ONE example of a country with low/no-taxes that outperforms socialist countries.

http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/eco_hum_dev_ind-economy-human-development-index

[CA renter]

[quote=jstoesz][quote]BTW, those salaries/benefits are recycled back into the economy as these employees spend their money. It is far better than “investments” by rich people that have a debt offset (require repayment PLUS interest/dividends).[/quote]

You are comparing apples and oranges. The money that the public sector is paid is from taxes. It is not organically grown from productive enterprises. Your argument amounts to a thief taking money from a cash register and then spending it in that very business as some sort of repayment.[/quote]

It’s not whether something is provided by private or public enterprise that determines value, it’s whether or not the things provided are demanded or necessary for society to function in the most efficient and beneficial way possible.

If you think that NOT paying taxes is what makes a country rich, can you please provide an example of a single successful country where there are no/few taxes and a weak/non-existent government?

Here, you can sort by spending, wealth, literacy, health outcomes, etc. PLEASE, just find ONE example of a country with low/no-taxes that outperforms socialist countries.

http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/eco_hum_dev_ind-economy-human-development-index

[CA renter]

[quote=jstoesz][quote]BTW, those salaries/benefits are recycled back into the economy as these employees spend their money. It is far better than “investments” by rich people that have a debt offset (require repayment PLUS interest/dividends).[/quote]

You are comparing apples and oranges. The money that the public sector is paid is from taxes. It is not organically grown from productive enterprises. Your argument amounts to a thief taking money from a cash register and then spending it in that very business as some sort of repayment.[/quote]

It’s not whether something is provided by private or public enterprise that determines value, it’s whether or not the things provided are demanded or necessary for society to function in the most efficient and beneficial way possible.

If you think that NOT paying taxes is what makes a country rich, can you please provide an example of a single successful country where there are no/few taxes and a weak/non-existent government?

Here, you can sort by spending, wealth, literacy, health outcomes, etc. PLEASE, just find ONE example of a country with low/no-taxes that outperforms socialist countries.

http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/eco_hum_dev_ind-economy-human-development-index

[CA renter]

[quote=jstoesz][quote]BTW, those salaries/benefits are recycled back into the economy as these employees spend their money. It is far better than “investments” by rich people that have a debt offset (require repayment PLUS interest/dividends).[/quote]

You are comparing apples and oranges. The money that the public sector is paid is from taxes. It is not organically grown from productive enterprises. Your argument amounts to a thief taking money from a cash register and then spending it in that very business as some sort of repayment.[/quote]

It’s not whether something is provided by private or public enterprise that determines value, it’s whether or not the things provided are demanded or necessary for society to function in the most efficient and beneficial way possible.

If you think that NOT paying taxes is what makes a country rich, can you please provide an example of a single successful country where there are no/few taxes and a weak/non-existent government?

Here, you can sort by spending, wealth, literacy, health outcomes, etc. PLEASE, just find ONE example of a country with low/no-taxes that outperforms socialist countries.

http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/eco_hum_dev_ind-economy-human-development-index

[jficquette]

[quote=jstoesz][quote]BTW, those salaries/benefits are recycled back into the economy as these employees spend their money. It is far better than “investments” by rich people that have a debt offset (require repayment PLUS interest/dividends).[/quote]

You are comparing apples and oranges. The money that the public sector is paid is from taxes. It is not organically grown from productive enterprises. Your argument amounts to a thief taking money from a cash register and then spending it in that very business as some sort of repayment.[/quote]

Yes stealing money from the store’s cash register to buy candy bars off the store’s shelf.

[jficquette]

[quote=jstoesz][quote]BTW, those salaries/benefits are recycled back into the economy as these employees spend their money. It is far better than “investments” by rich people that have a debt offset (require repayment PLUS interest/dividends).[/quote]

You are comparing apples and oranges. The money that the public sector is paid is from taxes. It is not organically grown from productive enterprises. Your argument amounts to a thief taking money from a cash register and then spending it in that very business as some sort of repayment.[/quote]

Yes stealing money from the store’s cash register to buy candy bars off the store’s shelf.

[jficquette]

[quote=jstoesz][quote]BTW, those salaries/benefits are recycled back into the economy as these employees spend their money. It is far better than “investments” by rich people that have a debt offset (require repayment PLUS interest/dividends).[/quote]

You are comparing apples and oranges. The money that the public sector is paid is from taxes. It is not organically grown from productive enterprises. Your argument amounts to a thief taking money from a cash register and then spending it in that very business as some sort of repayment.[/quote]

Yes stealing money from the store’s cash register to buy candy bars off the store’s shelf.

[jficquette]

[quote=jstoesz][quote]BTW, those salaries/benefits are recycled back into the economy as these employees spend their money. It is far better than “investments” by rich people that have a debt offset (require repayment PLUS interest/dividends).[/quote]

You are comparing apples and oranges. The money that the public sector is paid is from taxes. It is not organically grown from productive enterprises. Your argument amounts to a thief taking money from a cash register and then spending it in that very business as some sort of repayment.[/quote]

Yes stealing money from the store’s cash register to buy candy bars off the store’s shelf.

[jficquette]

[quote=jstoesz][quote]BTW, those salaries/benefits are recycled back into the economy as these employees spend their money. It is far better than “investments” by rich people that have a debt offset (require repayment PLUS interest/dividends).[/quote]

You are comparing apples and oranges. The money that the public sector is paid is from taxes. It is not organically grown from productive enterprises. Your argument amounts to a thief taking money from a cash register and then spending it in that very business as some sort of repayment.[/quote]

Yes stealing money from the store’s cash register to buy candy bars off the store’s shelf.

[jficquette]

[quote=CA renter][quote=jficquette]80 cents on the dollar for pay and benefits??? That’s bullshit. It has to stop asap.

“In California, where an estimated 80 cents out of every government dollar goes to employee pay and benefits, Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger (R) has proposed a two-tier system of pensions that offers new state workers reduced benefits with tighter retirement formulas. He also wants state workers to kick in higher pension contributions to help deal with California’s staggering deficit.”

http://www.newmediajournal.us/government_politics/1006b.htm%5B/quote%5D

Exactly where do you think tax money is supposed to go? To trees? To rocks?

Everything the public sector provides (infrastructure, safety, education, etc.) is provided by PEOPLE. It shouldn’t be a surprise that most of the money goes toward salaries and benefits. What else should it go toward?

BTW, those salaries/benefits are recycled back into the economy as these employees spend their money. It is far better than “investments” by rich people that have a debt offset (require repayment PLUS interest/dividends).[/quote]

That’s the point. Obviously the money is not going to services. It’s going to the public sector’s pockets.

We have a $19 Bill deficit now in Cali:

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/Calif-budget-plan-relies-on-apf-2965860812.html?x=0&sec=topStories&pos=main&asset=&ccode=

That means $15Bil of that deficit is due to pay and benefits.The hell with that. Just fire them and problem solved or cut everyone pay and benefits by 20%. I say that because I think our budget is around $100Bill. Since 80% is for pay and benefits(what a joke), then all you have to do is cut pay by 20-25% and budget is fixed and no decrease in services to the illegals etc.

I don’t think you know the answer to this because I guess you work for the State but do you have idea how many businesses would stay in business with a payroll that was 80% of revenue??

Why can’t we run government like a business?

John

[jficquette]

[quote=CA renter][quote=jficquette]80 cents on the dollar for pay and benefits??? That’s bullshit. It has to stop asap.

“In California, where an estimated 80 cents out of every government dollar goes to employee pay and benefits, Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger (R) has proposed a two-tier system of pensions that offers new state workers reduced benefits with tighter retirement formulas. He also wants state workers to kick in higher pension contributions to help deal with California’s staggering deficit.”

http://www.newmediajournal.us/government_politics/1006b.htm%5B/quote%5D

Exactly where do you think tax money is supposed to go? To trees? To rocks?

Everything the public sector provides (infrastructure, safety, education, etc.) is provided by PEOPLE. It shouldn’t be a surprise that most of the money goes toward salaries and benefits. What else should it go toward?

BTW, those salaries/benefits are recycled back into the economy as these employees spend their money. It is far better than “investments” by rich people that have a debt offset (require repayment PLUS interest/dividends).[/quote]

That’s the point. Obviously the money is not going to services. It’s going to the public sector’s pockets.

We have a $19 Bill deficit now in Cali:

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/Calif-budget-plan-relies-on-apf-2965860812.html?x=0&sec=topStories&pos=main&asset=&ccode=

That means $15Bil of that deficit is due to pay and benefits.The hell with that. Just fire them and problem solved or cut everyone pay and benefits by 20%. I say that because I think our budget is around $100Bill. Since 80% is for pay and benefits(what a joke), then all you have to do is cut pay by 20-25% and budget is fixed and no decrease in services to the illegals etc.

I don’t think you know the answer to this because I guess you work for the State but do you have idea how many businesses would stay in business with a payroll that was 80% of revenue??

Why can’t we run government like a business?

John

[jficquette]

[quote=CA renter][quote=jficquette]80 cents on the dollar for pay and benefits??? That’s bullshit. It has to stop asap.

“In California, where an estimated 80 cents out of every government dollar goes to employee pay and benefits, Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger (R) has proposed a two-tier system of pensions that offers new state workers reduced benefits with tighter retirement formulas. He also wants state workers to kick in higher pension contributions to help deal with California’s staggering deficit.”

http://www.newmediajournal.us/government_politics/1006b.htm%5B/quote%5D

Exactly where do you think tax money is supposed to go? To trees? To rocks?

Everything the public sector provides (infrastructure, safety, education, etc.) is provided by PEOPLE. It shouldn’t be a surprise that most of the money goes toward salaries and benefits. What else should it go toward?

BTW, those salaries/benefits are recycled back into the economy as these employees spend their money. It is far better than “investments” by rich people that have a debt offset (require repayment PLUS interest/dividends).[/quote]

That’s the point. Obviously the money is not going to services. It’s going to the public sector’s pockets.

We have a $19 Bill deficit now in Cali:

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/Calif-budget-plan-relies-on-apf-2965860812.html?x=0&sec=topStories&pos=main&asset=&ccode=

That means $15Bil of that deficit is due to pay and benefits.The hell with that. Just fire them and problem solved or cut everyone pay and benefits by 20%. I say that because I think our budget is around $100Bill. Since 80% is for pay and benefits(what a joke), then all you have to do is cut pay by 20-25% and budget is fixed and no decrease in services to the illegals etc.

I don’t think you know the answer to this because I guess you work for the State but do you have idea how many businesses would stay in business with a payroll that was 80% of revenue??

Why can’t we run government like a business?

John

[jficquette]

[quote=CA renter][quote=jficquette]80 cents on the dollar for pay and benefits??? That’s bullshit. It has to stop asap.

“In California, where an estimated 80 cents out of every government dollar goes to employee pay and benefits, Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger (R) has proposed a two-tier system of pensions that offers new state workers reduced benefits with tighter retirement formulas. He also wants state workers to kick in higher pension contributions to help deal with California’s staggering deficit.”

http://www.newmediajournal.us/government_politics/1006b.htm%5B/quote%5D

Exactly where do you think tax money is supposed to go? To trees? To rocks?

Everything the public sector provides (infrastructure, safety, education, etc.) is provided by PEOPLE. It shouldn’t be a surprise that most of the money goes toward salaries and benefits. What else should it go toward?

BTW, those salaries/benefits are recycled back into the economy as these employees spend their money. It is far better than “investments” by rich people that have a debt offset (require repayment PLUS interest/dividends).[/quote]

That’s the point. Obviously the money is not going to services. It’s going to the public sector’s pockets.

We have a $19 Bill deficit now in Cali:

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/Calif-budget-plan-relies-on-apf-2965860812.html?x=0&sec=topStories&pos=main&asset=&ccode=

That means $15Bil of that deficit is due to pay and benefits.The hell with that. Just fire them and problem solved or cut everyone pay and benefits by 20%. I say that because I think our budget is around $100Bill. Since 80% is for pay and benefits(what a joke), then all you have to do is cut pay by 20-25% and budget is fixed and no decrease in services to the illegals etc.

I don’t think you know the answer to this because I guess you work for the State but do you have idea how many businesses would stay in business with a payroll that was 80% of revenue??

Why can’t we run government like a business?

John

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