OT: More on Saylor and the Fireball Lexus

[ucodegen]

A comment I saw on the same forum, but further down.. a little OT for the current topic, but I think very accurate and says a lot:

Originally Posted by AaronCompNetSys
Great writeup. I pieced that whole thing together from various places, I don’t understand why the media did not do what you did when it was first released. Controlling of information simply should now happen in the modern age.

This is why the media is losing out to everyday people reporting on the Internet.

The media could have informed the public on how to really shut the car off and to watch out for just trying to slow down the car when a run-away situation occurs.. but most of the media just played the emotional angle.

[ucodegen]

what about the emergency brake? I would think that the e-brake in combination with even a semi-failing pedal brake would be enough to slow down to a non-fatal speed.

That is the last brake you want to touch in that situation. It does not have the braking power that the normal brake has (less than 1/2 the braking power) and it makes the car unstable at speed, making it more likely to spin out or swap ends.

I won’t go into detail about how to do boot-leg turns, but it does involve using the emergency brake. Boot-leg turns are the turns you see on the movies where a car is going full speed forward then suddenly spins around while sliding sideways and then faces the opposite direction and heads off in the opposite direction.

[ucodegen]

what about the emergency brake? I would think that the e-brake in combination with even a semi-failing pedal brake would be enough to slow down to a non-fatal speed.

That is the last brake you want to touch in that situation. It does not have the braking power that the normal brake has (less than 1/2 the braking power) and it makes the car unstable at speed, making it more likely to spin out or swap ends.

I won’t go into detail about how to do boot-leg turns, but it does involve using the emergency brake. Boot-leg turns are the turns you see on the movies where a car is going full speed forward then suddenly spins around while sliding sideways and then faces the opposite direction and heads off in the opposite direction.

[ucodegen]

what about the emergency brake? I would think that the e-brake in combination with even a semi-failing pedal brake would be enough to slow down to a non-fatal speed.

That is the last brake you want to touch in that situation. It does not have the braking power that the normal brake has (less than 1/2 the braking power) and it makes the car unstable at speed, making it more likely to spin out or swap ends.

I won’t go into detail about how to do boot-leg turns, but it does involve using the emergency brake. Boot-leg turns are the turns you see on the movies where a car is going full speed forward then suddenly spins around while sliding sideways and then faces the opposite direction and heads off in the opposite direction.

[ucodegen]

what about the emergency brake? I would think that the e-brake in combination with even a semi-failing pedal brake would be enough to slow down to a non-fatal speed.

That is the last brake you want to touch in that situation. It does not have the braking power that the normal brake has (less than 1/2 the braking power) and it makes the car unstable at speed, making it more likely to spin out or swap ends.

I won’t go into detail about how to do boot-leg turns, but it does involve using the emergency brake. Boot-leg turns are the turns you see on the movies where a car is going full speed forward then suddenly spins around while sliding sideways and then faces the opposite direction and heads off in the opposite direction.

[ucodegen]

what about the emergency brake? I would think that the e-brake in combination with even a semi-failing pedal brake would be enough to slow down to a non-fatal speed.

That is the last brake you want to touch in that situation. It does not have the braking power that the normal brake has (less than 1/2 the braking power) and it makes the car unstable at speed, making it more likely to spin out or swap ends.

I won’t go into detail about how to do boot-leg turns, but it does involve using the emergency brake. Boot-leg turns are the turns you see on the movies where a car is going full speed forward then suddenly spins around while sliding sideways and then faces the opposite direction and heads off in the opposite direction.

[Coronita]

[quote=ucodegen]

what about the emergency brake? I would think that the e-brake in combination with even a semi-failing pedal brake would be enough to slow down to a non-fatal speed.

That is the last brake you want to touch in that situation. It does not have the braking power that the normal brake has (less than 1/2 the braking power) and it makes the car unstable at speed, making it more likely to spin out or swap ends.

I won’t go into detail about how to do boot-leg turns, but it does involve using the emergency brake. Boot-leg turns are the turns you see on the movies where a car is going full speed forward then suddenly spins around while sliding sideways and then faces the opposite direction and heads off in the opposite direction.[/quote]

I think the ebrakes would have been useless with brakes toast. Also, I forget but I think the e-brake in the Lexus might not actually be an manual lever, but electrical. See image above…No ebrake handle next to selector, and I didn’t see a ebrake pedal on the floor. Some cars use an electronic version these days. (another brilliant idea)

[Coronita]

[quote=ucodegen]

what about the emergency brake? I would think that the e-brake in combination with even a semi-failing pedal brake would be enough to slow down to a non-fatal speed.

That is the last brake you want to touch in that situation. It does not have the braking power that the normal brake has (less than 1/2 the braking power) and it makes the car unstable at speed, making it more likely to spin out or swap ends.

I won’t go into detail about how to do boot-leg turns, but it does involve using the emergency brake. Boot-leg turns are the turns you see on the movies where a car is going full speed forward then suddenly spins around while sliding sideways and then faces the opposite direction and heads off in the opposite direction.[/quote]

I think the ebrakes would have been useless with brakes toast. Also, I forget but I think the e-brake in the Lexus might not actually be an manual lever, but electrical. See image above…No ebrake handle next to selector, and I didn’t see a ebrake pedal on the floor. Some cars use an electronic version these days. (another brilliant idea)

[Coronita]

[quote=ucodegen]

what about the emergency brake? I would think that the e-brake in combination with even a semi-failing pedal brake would be enough to slow down to a non-fatal speed.

That is the last brake you want to touch in that situation. It does not have the braking power that the normal brake has (less than 1/2 the braking power) and it makes the car unstable at speed, making it more likely to spin out or swap ends.

I won’t go into detail about how to do boot-leg turns, but it does involve using the emergency brake. Boot-leg turns are the turns you see on the movies where a car is going full speed forward then suddenly spins around while sliding sideways and then faces the opposite direction and heads off in the opposite direction.[/quote]

I think the ebrakes would have been useless with brakes toast. Also, I forget but I think the e-brake in the Lexus might not actually be an manual lever, but electrical. See image above…No ebrake handle next to selector, and I didn’t see a ebrake pedal on the floor. Some cars use an electronic version these days. (another brilliant idea)

[Coronita]

[quote=ucodegen]

what about the emergency brake? I would think that the e-brake in combination with even a semi-failing pedal brake would be enough to slow down to a non-fatal speed.

That is the last brake you want to touch in that situation. It does not have the braking power that the normal brake has (less than 1/2 the braking power) and it makes the car unstable at speed, making it more likely to spin out or swap ends.

I won’t go into detail about how to do boot-leg turns, but it does involve using the emergency brake. Boot-leg turns are the turns you see on the movies where a car is going full speed forward then suddenly spins around while sliding sideways and then faces the opposite direction and heads off in the opposite direction.[/quote]

I think the ebrakes would have been useless with brakes toast. Also, I forget but I think the e-brake in the Lexus might not actually be an manual lever, but electrical. See image above…No ebrake handle next to selector, and I didn’t see a ebrake pedal on the floor. Some cars use an electronic version these days. (another brilliant idea)

[Coronita]

[quote=ucodegen]

what about the emergency brake? I would think that the e-brake in combination with even a semi-failing pedal brake would be enough to slow down to a non-fatal speed.

That is the last brake you want to touch in that situation. It does not have the braking power that the normal brake has (less than 1/2 the braking power) and it makes the car unstable at speed, making it more likely to spin out or swap ends.

I won’t go into detail about how to do boot-leg turns, but it does involve using the emergency brake. Boot-leg turns are the turns you see on the movies where a car is going full speed forward then suddenly spins around while sliding sideways and then faces the opposite direction and heads off in the opposite direction.[/quote]

I think the ebrakes would have been useless with brakes toast. Also, I forget but I think the e-brake in the Lexus might not actually be an manual lever, but electrical. See image above…No ebrake handle next to selector, and I didn’t see a ebrake pedal on the floor. Some cars use an electronic version these days. (another brilliant idea)

[Coronita]

[quote=SDEngineer][quote=flu]Btw: the brake problem probably isn’t just limited to lexuses.

Me thinks most cars these days have power-assisted brakes…Not a brake engineer, but don’t they get they vacuum power from the engine? If an engine is at WOT, vacuum would drop after a few pumps, no?

Funny thing is I thought after the audi issues, that it was required when brakes are applied the ignition would be cut… I guess not.[/quote]

Audi’s problem was that the gas and brake pedals were too close together, and their brake pedal too small. The “unintended acceleration” was people hitting the accelerator thinking that it was the brake pedal.

Not sure how you’d actually be able to implement an “ignition cut-off” while braking (or even a fuel cutoff) – you’d have to put a lot of logic in wrt low speed exceptions (unless you want to restart your car every time you come to a stop – and stop-and-go traffic on the freeway would be just ridiculous), and it would pretty much kill every sports car out there as well.[/quote]

I’m very familiar with audi’s problems. But as a result I thought there was a mandate that brake cuts throttle. I think ikt is entirely possible these days because several if cars these days don’t really use a throttle cable but are drive by wire, so the throttle is electronically controlled anyway. Audi’s been dbw since 2000, and when I did try to push the brake while still on the accelerator, the car’s throttle did cut.

[Coronita]

[quote=SDEngineer][quote=flu]Btw: the brake problem probably isn’t just limited to lexuses.

Me thinks most cars these days have power-assisted brakes…Not a brake engineer, but don’t they get they vacuum power from the engine? If an engine is at WOT, vacuum would drop after a few pumps, no?

Funny thing is I thought after the audi issues, that it was required when brakes are applied the ignition would be cut… I guess not.[/quote]

Audi’s problem was that the gas and brake pedals were too close together, and their brake pedal too small. The “unintended acceleration” was people hitting the accelerator thinking that it was the brake pedal.

Not sure how you’d actually be able to implement an “ignition cut-off” while braking (or even a fuel cutoff) – you’d have to put a lot of logic in wrt low speed exceptions (unless you want to restart your car every time you come to a stop – and stop-and-go traffic on the freeway would be just ridiculous), and it would pretty much kill every sports car out there as well.[/quote]

I’m very familiar with audi’s problems. But as a result I thought there was a mandate that brake cuts throttle. I think ikt is entirely possible these days because several if cars these days don’t really use a throttle cable but are drive by wire, so the throttle is electronically controlled anyway. Audi’s been dbw since 2000, and when I did try to push the brake while still on the accelerator, the car’s throttle did cut.

[Coronita]

[quote=SDEngineer][quote=flu]Btw: the brake problem probably isn’t just limited to lexuses.

Me thinks most cars these days have power-assisted brakes…Not a brake engineer, but don’t they get they vacuum power from the engine? If an engine is at WOT, vacuum would drop after a few pumps, no?

Funny thing is I thought after the audi issues, that it was required when brakes are applied the ignition would be cut… I guess not.[/quote]

Audi’s problem was that the gas and brake pedals were too close together, and their brake pedal too small. The “unintended acceleration” was people hitting the accelerator thinking that it was the brake pedal.

Not sure how you’d actually be able to implement an “ignition cut-off” while braking (or even a fuel cutoff) – you’d have to put a lot of logic in wrt low speed exceptions (unless you want to restart your car every time you come to a stop – and stop-and-go traffic on the freeway would be just ridiculous), and it would pretty much kill every sports car out there as well.[/quote]

I’m very familiar with audi’s problems. But as a result I thought there was a mandate that brake cuts throttle. I think ikt is entirely possible these days because several if cars these days don’t really use a throttle cable but are drive by wire, so the throttle is electronically controlled anyway. Audi’s been dbw since 2000, and when I did try to push the brake while still on the accelerator, the car’s throttle did cut.

[Coronita]

[quote=SDEngineer][quote=flu]Btw: the brake problem probably isn’t just limited to lexuses.

Me thinks most cars these days have power-assisted brakes…Not a brake engineer, but don’t they get they vacuum power from the engine? If an engine is at WOT, vacuum would drop after a few pumps, no?

Funny thing is I thought after the audi issues, that it was required when brakes are applied the ignition would be cut… I guess not.[/quote]

Audi’s problem was that the gas and brake pedals were too close together, and their brake pedal too small. The “unintended acceleration” was people hitting the accelerator thinking that it was the brake pedal.

Not sure how you’d actually be able to implement an “ignition cut-off” while braking (or even a fuel cutoff) – you’d have to put a lot of logic in wrt low speed exceptions (unless you want to restart your car every time you come to a stop – and stop-and-go traffic on the freeway would be just ridiculous), and it would pretty much kill every sports car out there as well.[/quote]

I’m very familiar with audi’s problems. But as a result I thought there was a mandate that brake cuts throttle. I think ikt is entirely possible these days because several if cars these days don’t really use a throttle cable but are drive by wire, so the throttle is electronically controlled anyway. Audi’s been dbw since 2000, and when I did try to push the brake while still on the accelerator, the car’s throttle did cut.

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