OT: More on Saylor and the Fireball Lexus

[Coronita]

[quote=doofrat]Here’s a posting about somebody who supposedly took a dealer car and ran it trough the same scenario and the Saylor car:

http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1859407

Summary: You can’t shift into neutral using the gate that is normally used, the computer overrides it at high speed. You have to shift into the center unmarked gate to shift into neutral. Again, this is like the start button, unless you know the specific steps involved in operating it in an emergency situation, your chance of working it correctly are almost nil’

Picture for reference:

http://l.yimg.com/dv/izp/lexus_es_350_2009_interior_gearshift.jpg%5B/quote%5D

Not sure if this is accurate, but i tested this at a lower speed (60ish) and was able to pop it into the neutral. However, the thing I did notice is the design of the shift gate pattern is horrible from a usability perspective, because unless you have driven the car for some time and am use to shifting in between the gears, it takes awhile to get use moving the selector between te gears…It’s especially confusing if you were in tiptronics(or whatever lexus calls it) mode (furtherest to the left) and are trying to shift back out. For one thing, if your trying to keep your car in control going 100+mph, you cant exactly look down. Hence, it probably was because Saylor wasn’t familiar with the car, and couldn’t figure out how to pop it into N and he couldn’t exactly look down to see the gate.

I don’t understand why auto makers try to make selectors like this. I guess it’s to prevent people from accidentally shifting out of gear. I’d say it was effective for all the wrong reasons.

Rip Saylor and family.

[Coronita]

Btw: the brake problem probably isn’t just limited to lexuses.

Me thinks most cars these days have power-assisted brakes…Not a brake engineer, but don’t they get they vacuum power from the engine? If an engine is at WOT, vacuum would drop after a few pumps, no?

Funny thing is I thought after the audi issues, that it was required when brakes are applied the ignition would be cut… I guess not.

[Coronita]

Btw: the brake problem probably isn’t just limited to lexuses.

Me thinks most cars these days have power-assisted brakes…Not a brake engineer, but don’t they get they vacuum power from the engine? If an engine is at WOT, vacuum would drop after a few pumps, no?

Funny thing is I thought after the audi issues, that it was required when brakes are applied the ignition would be cut… I guess not.

[Coronita]

Btw: the brake problem probably isn’t just limited to lexuses.

Me thinks most cars these days have power-assisted brakes…Not a brake engineer, but don’t they get they vacuum power from the engine? If an engine is at WOT, vacuum would drop after a few pumps, no?

Funny thing is I thought after the audi issues, that it was required when brakes are applied the ignition would be cut… I guess not.

[Coronita]

Btw: the brake problem probably isn’t just limited to lexuses.

Me thinks most cars these days have power-assisted brakes…Not a brake engineer, but don’t they get they vacuum power from the engine? If an engine is at WOT, vacuum would drop after a few pumps, no?

Funny thing is I thought after the audi issues, that it was required when brakes are applied the ignition would be cut… I guess not.

[Coronita]

Btw: the brake problem probably isn’t just limited to lexuses.

Me thinks most cars these days have power-assisted brakes…Not a brake engineer, but don’t they get they vacuum power from the engine? If an engine is at WOT, vacuum would drop after a few pumps, no?

Funny thing is I thought after the audi issues, that it was required when brakes are applied the ignition would be cut… I guess not.

[CricketOnTheHearth]

Good God what an F’d up car.

Pushbutton ignitions should be banned or at least universally discontinued… the key-switch ignition is a hard, mechanical failsafe.

In our manufacturing-line machines at work, a hard, mechanically-switched interlock for shutting it off is required by the government safety organizations… you are not allowed to simply have an electric pushbutton to turn it off. That’s not good enough if the machine is trying to chew your workerbee to death and the electric pushbutton decides to go FUBAR at that moment.

The poor Saylors. What a horrible feeling of helplessness his last seconds must have been– “how can I turn this damn car OFF????”

[CricketOnTheHearth]

Good God what an F’d up car.

Pushbutton ignitions should be banned or at least universally discontinued… the key-switch ignition is a hard, mechanical failsafe.

In our manufacturing-line machines at work, a hard, mechanically-switched interlock for shutting it off is required by the government safety organizations… you are not allowed to simply have an electric pushbutton to turn it off. That’s not good enough if the machine is trying to chew your workerbee to death and the electric pushbutton decides to go FUBAR at that moment.

The poor Saylors. What a horrible feeling of helplessness his last seconds must have been– “how can I turn this damn car OFF????”

[CricketOnTheHearth]

Good God what an F’d up car.

Pushbutton ignitions should be banned or at least universally discontinued… the key-switch ignition is a hard, mechanical failsafe.

In our manufacturing-line machines at work, a hard, mechanically-switched interlock for shutting it off is required by the government safety organizations… you are not allowed to simply have an electric pushbutton to turn it off. That’s not good enough if the machine is trying to chew your workerbee to death and the electric pushbutton decides to go FUBAR at that moment.

The poor Saylors. What a horrible feeling of helplessness his last seconds must have been– “how can I turn this damn car OFF????”

[CricketOnTheHearth]

Good God what an F’d up car.

Pushbutton ignitions should be banned or at least universally discontinued… the key-switch ignition is a hard, mechanical failsafe.

In our manufacturing-line machines at work, a hard, mechanically-switched interlock for shutting it off is required by the government safety organizations… you are not allowed to simply have an electric pushbutton to turn it off. That’s not good enough if the machine is trying to chew your workerbee to death and the electric pushbutton decides to go FUBAR at that moment.

The poor Saylors. What a horrible feeling of helplessness his last seconds must have been– “how can I turn this damn car OFF????”

[CricketOnTheHearth]

Good God what an F’d up car.

Pushbutton ignitions should be banned or at least universally discontinued… the key-switch ignition is a hard, mechanical failsafe.

In our manufacturing-line machines at work, a hard, mechanically-switched interlock for shutting it off is required by the government safety organizations… you are not allowed to simply have an electric pushbutton to turn it off. That’s not good enough if the machine is trying to chew your workerbee to death and the electric pushbutton decides to go FUBAR at that moment.

The poor Saylors. What a horrible feeling of helplessness his last seconds must have been– “how can I turn this damn car OFF????”

[SDEngineer]

[quote=flu]Btw: the brake problem probably isn’t just limited to lexuses.

Me thinks most cars these days have power-assisted brakes…Not a brake engineer, but don’t they get they vacuum power from the engine? If an engine is at WOT, vacuum would drop after a few pumps, no?

Funny thing is I thought after the audi issues, that it was required when brakes are applied the ignition would be cut… I guess not.[/quote]

Audi’s problem was that the gas and brake pedals were too close together, and their brake pedal too small. The “unintended acceleration” was people hitting the accelerator thinking that it was the brake pedal.

Not sure how you’d actually be able to implement an “ignition cut-off” while braking (or even a fuel cutoff) – you’d have to put a lot of logic in wrt low speed exceptions (unless you want to restart your car every time you come to a stop – and stop-and-go traffic on the freeway would be just ridiculous), and it would pretty much kill every sports car out there as well.

[SDEngineer]

[quote=flu]Btw: the brake problem probably isn’t just limited to lexuses.

Me thinks most cars these days have power-assisted brakes…Not a brake engineer, but don’t they get they vacuum power from the engine? If an engine is at WOT, vacuum would drop after a few pumps, no?

Funny thing is I thought after the audi issues, that it was required when brakes are applied the ignition would be cut… I guess not.[/quote]

Audi’s problem was that the gas and brake pedals were too close together, and their brake pedal too small. The “unintended acceleration” was people hitting the accelerator thinking that it was the brake pedal.

Not sure how you’d actually be able to implement an “ignition cut-off” while braking (or even a fuel cutoff) – you’d have to put a lot of logic in wrt low speed exceptions (unless you want to restart your car every time you come to a stop – and stop-and-go traffic on the freeway would be just ridiculous), and it would pretty much kill every sports car out there as well.

[SDEngineer]

[quote=flu]Btw: the brake problem probably isn’t just limited to lexuses.

Me thinks most cars these days have power-assisted brakes…Not a brake engineer, but don’t they get they vacuum power from the engine? If an engine is at WOT, vacuum would drop after a few pumps, no?

Funny thing is I thought after the audi issues, that it was required when brakes are applied the ignition would be cut… I guess not.[/quote]

Audi’s problem was that the gas and brake pedals were too close together, and their brake pedal too small. The “unintended acceleration” was people hitting the accelerator thinking that it was the brake pedal.

Not sure how you’d actually be able to implement an “ignition cut-off” while braking (or even a fuel cutoff) – you’d have to put a lot of logic in wrt low speed exceptions (unless you want to restart your car every time you come to a stop – and stop-and-go traffic on the freeway would be just ridiculous), and it would pretty much kill every sports car out there as well.

[SDEngineer]

[quote=flu]Btw: the brake problem probably isn’t just limited to lexuses.

Me thinks most cars these days have power-assisted brakes…Not a brake engineer, but don’t they get they vacuum power from the engine? If an engine is at WOT, vacuum would drop after a few pumps, no?

Funny thing is I thought after the audi issues, that it was required when brakes are applied the ignition would be cut… I guess not.[/quote]

Audi’s problem was that the gas and brake pedals were too close together, and their brake pedal too small. The “unintended acceleration” was people hitting the accelerator thinking that it was the brake pedal.

Not sure how you’d actually be able to implement an “ignition cut-off” while braking (or even a fuel cutoff) – you’d have to put a lot of logic in wrt low speed exceptions (unless you want to restart your car every time you come to a stop – and stop-and-go traffic on the freeway would be just ridiculous), and it would pretty much kill every sports car out there as well.

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