OT: Ideas For Gun Owner Accountability

[mike92104]

[quote=squat300]they were shooting with a vector in our direction, not up in the air.

not airsoft guns, loud ass guns.

this was an open area.

airsoft wouldve been irresponsible.

airsoft outdoors is usually in a defined space, not just out and about.

im not arguing here outlaw guns.

im saying dont just shoot guns in the general direction of people walking around.

if that’s unreasonable, then, well, i guess im unreasonable.[/quote]

Again, this points out your lack of knowledge about safety and firearms. Shooting up in the air (depending on the type of gun) is EXTREMELY irresponsible. Airsoft guns use tiny little plastic pellets that only have a range of 100′ or so and MIGHT sting a tiny bit if you were to get hit. Shotguns are “loud as guns”, but they don’t have a very long range. My point is that your automatic assumption that these people were irresponsible simply because they were out shooting is misplaced because you don’t have the knowledge base to make an accurate determination.

[mike92104]

dup

[mike92104]

[quote=zk][quote=desmond]
This is what I saw coming, the gun control crowd starts bashing the gun owners. Instead of real solutions they just show their hatred of the people that own guns. Finally after so much “LMC” inspired hogwash the gun owners just get sick of it and say no. Gun sales skyrocket the pushback will be harder and the gun control crowd will continue to name call. I was thinking some controls, even though they would not work, would be okay, no large clips, but not anymore, forget it.[/quote]

I just read all of KIBU’s posts on this thread. I didn’t see him call anyone a name. And then we have this:

[quote=Paul0373]Hey KIBU, get out of my face with all of your Gun Control Garbage. You know what? I’ve never felt the need to own a personal firearm until you self-righteous, Constitution hating Communists decided to start going after yet another personal liberty. Listen to Feinstein, Cuomo, Emanuel, Obama… and yourself.. You all make me ill. If I want to own 50 ARs and a million rounds of ammunition, that’s my business bud. If you’re so naive to think that this government is disarming us for our good while they(feinstein) have concealed carry permits and armed guards(all of them), you are a naive fool. Please, crawl in a hole until you have enough votes to amend the Constitution and until then I’d be happy to buy you an NRA membership and take you to the range for some target practice.[/quote]

If Paul’s response is to KIBU, which it certainly appears to be, then Paul’s problem isn’t that he’s fed up with name calling.

There’s been plenty of reasonable discussion on this board for stronger gun control. But that all appears to have been ignored. If all Paul has no response to this except to say is that we’re “self-righteous, Constitution hating Communists” and “naive fool[s],” we “make [him] ill” and that we should “crawl in a hole,” then perhaps the problem isn’t our “LMC inspired hogwash.” Perhaps the problem is the Limbaugh/Hannity/Savage/NRA-inspired, foaming-at-the-mouth, reasonless ranting of angry people like Paul.

You (desmond) say that we’ve bashed gun owners and offered no real solutions. That’s only true if you automatically disagree with all the solutions we have to offer. Let me ask you this: What solutions might we offer that you would consider “real”? Or are there none? If, in your opinion, there are none, then your accusation that we’re offering no real solutions doesn’t really fly.

Did you see Paul offering any solutions to the thousands of gun deaths we have in this country every year? No? Then how come you’re accusing the gun-control side of not offering solutions, but not the anti-gun-control side?

I don’t see how you read Paul’s post and come away with the conclusion that the gun-control side is the one not offering solutions.[/quote]

The problem with all of the “reasonable solutions” is that NONE of them will do anything to fix the problem. You will simply make it more difficult for responsible gun owners to buy guns and ammo. It seems really silly to me to think that someone who has the intention to go on a shooting spree is going to give a rat’s ass about some gun control law. If the threat of being charged with murder and possible death penalty is not enough, then what is?

Paul’s rant may be on the extreme right side of the issue, but you know what? He’ll most likely never fire any one of the weapons he owns at another person. The “Guntards” that have been mentioned aren’t the f’n problem. Why can you guys not see that?

[NotCranky]

Are those airsoft pellets biodegradable? It seems irresponsible to litter up pretty much anywhere with the things.

[Paul0373]

Fellow Americans, doesn’t it make you wonder why FOREIGN countries are calling for our disarmament? Doesn’t that seem strange to you? Do you think they are worried about the children in our schools or do they have some other agenda? Doesn’t it concern you that history is littered with examples of governments that become more and more tyrannical following the disarmament of its people? In fact, isn’t that the norm? Shouldn’t our Constitution and our rights be safeguarded at all costs? If our Constitution is irrelevant, then what makes America.. America? How will we continue to be a “free” country and not join the list of nations ruled by tyrants? Without the Second Amendment, how do we the people guarantee that their will even be a First Amendment? My hope is that people will ask themselves some tough questions before they wave off their rights…Have we endured some terrible tragedies as a nation… yes. How does one compare Sandy Hook, Aurora and Columbine to Stalin’s Purges, Mao’s mass murders, the genocide in Africa, the Balkans, the Holocaust, etc… Is that dramatic? I don’t know, but again, I ask.. What makes America… America?

[KIBU]

Very common in gun debates are the distractions and the digressions to politics. The ones for gun control automatically become linked to political figures like Obama, Feinstein. I think we should open to the fact that just because one is for gun control, not necessary that one should be automatically assumed a fan of Obama or Feinstein or a political party.

I am for gun control because I believe that it will help prevent and solve the problem of the senseless gun murders of our children at schools and other places, and the thousands of deaths via easy gun accessibility every year. I do think that it is a solvable problem. It doesn’t have to be completely solved tomorrow but it will be solved eventually so that children will be safer in this country.

So to me this should be very much beyond the politics and I think it should be to you too. I believe that on this topic, politics blind people’s sight to what this country can do to improve its safety for its own children. To me, it’s simply to minimize the risks to our children as much as possible to gun deaths.

We wear our seat belts, an act that even though restrict our movements at the time but could save our life and others when an accident occurs. We drive with our unexpired driving license, have liability insurances, car registration, and the rules and laws of the road. The ones who do not follow the laws gradually got busted. The others learn from it. Still we get plenty of accidents and deaths and drunk driving, but that does not mean the laws and regulations do not work.

For those who believe in the theory of tyrannical government, I am sure you have your reasons and heart to believe so. I just want to put in my opinion: just double check, tripple check and quadruple check all the facts that you hear and the reasonings you hear. There are people who can make any theory very convincing and before we know it, acts like Timothy McVeigh won’t be a very distant extensions of these indoctrinations. Seems to me if you really want to protect our republic, it is the rule of law that would be your more effective weapon. If one think an AR-15 is the more effective weapon for this, one has drunk the unquestioned kool aid.

Finally, I think we should focus on ideas to help improve safety for our society away from gun deaths and less on the distractions and digressions that do not lead anywhere.

[Paul0373]

I completely agree with you, we all want to keep the schools safe for the children and I believe there are ways to do this without demonizing gun ownership and destroying our individual liberties. First of all, the kooks all know to go to schools because they’re such easy targets. The government has kept guns out of schools and the media has announced this for all to hear, so of course the kooks are going to start there. What’s wrong with having an undercover police officer at the school? The students won’t know and neither will the wackos. How about if the media hyped up the undercover security instead of the opposite? For you and me, this is not about politics, but for the politicians, it’s ALWAYS about politics. Remember what Rahm Emanuel said, “Never let a serious crisis go to waste.” Remember that. The majority of the pols in office now are not well-intentioned folks like the people on this board and I don’t care if they have a D or an R next to their name. A very small number of people paid a very large amount of money to get these guys into office to carry out the agenda they have in mind and if they don’t comply, they’re out. And this brings us back to why our Constitution and Bill of Rights is so important.

[enron_by_the_sea]

I just donated to Brady campaign.

Who else can I donate to?

[Paul0373]

I don’t care who you donate to, I’m not turning in my firearms bud. It’s my right and that’s all there is to it.

[dumbrenter]

[quote=enron_by_the_sea]I just donated to Brady campaign.

Who else can I donate to?[/quote]

NRA

[all]

Would it be ok for squat350 to bring a gun and shot back if it happens again? He likely does not have a diagnosis that would prevent him from getting a gun, he felt threatened and he had his offspring with him (isn’t there a legal requirement for parents to protect their children?).

[no_such_reality]

[quote=craptcha]Would it be ok for squat350 to bring a gun and shot back if it happens again? He likely does not have a diagnosis that would prevent him from getting a gun, he felt threatened and he had his offspring with him (isn’t there a legal requirement for parents to protect their children?).[/quote]

Assh*les are assh*les. Does it matter if they have a gun or are just road raging in 6000lb SUV? Do you want to flip-off and cut-off the SUV that just past you screaming because you were only doing 75mph on the I15?

[all]

[quote=no_such_reality][quote=craptcha]Would it be ok for squat350 to bring a gun and shot back if it happens again? He likely does not have a diagnosis that would prevent him from getting a gun, he felt threatened and he had his offspring with him (isn’t there a legal requirement for parents to protect their children?).[/quote]

Assh*les are assh*les. Does it matter if they have a gun or are just road raging in 6000lb SUV? Do you want to flip-off and cut-off the SUV that just past you screaming because you were only doing 75mph on the I15?[/quote]

I don’t know. What if the SUV keeps coming at you? But my question was about sanctioning his reaction. Would it be ok to shoot back if someone is shooting in your general direction, you have a kid with you and you feel threatened. You fire a warning shot, it ricochets and kills a guy.

[ucodegen]

[quote=craptcha]I don’t know. What if the SUV keeps coming at you? But my question was about sanctioning his reaction. Would it be ok to shoot back if someone is shooting in your general direction, you have a kid with you and you feel threatened. You fire a warning shot, it ricochets and kills a guy.[/quote]Feel threatened, no.. if you know you are in imminent harm, yes. When dealing with firearms.. ‘feel’ has nothing to do with proper use. “Feel” is what gets most abusers of the right to bear arms in trouble. The shoot because they “feel” they were ‘dissed’, they “feel” the person was up to no good(vigilantes)..

Shooting in general direction has many ‘iffs’.. how far off boresight? If you are at 45 degrees from their boresight direction.. and you shoot them.. you will be charged with murder. With current tech, bullets can not turn their direction by 45 degrees. Mythbusters also did a test where they tried to turn a bullet through ricochets.. and found that by the time they got to a 180 degree turn, it had no energy. This was bouncing it off hardened steel designed to maintain as much energy in the bullet as possible. Even by 90 degrees, the bullet had little penetration power.

[no_such_reality]

The practical thing, IMHO, is to flee the area if threatened, call 911 on the way out and report multiple people shooting at you and your children in the general area you are at. (if they are).

Or if you don’t feel threatened, i.e. just guntards having a good time and not threatening, start screaming.

It depends. But in my past experience, guntards being stupid and shooting in the general direction of people are typically not good gun owners, they’re out drinking, partying and or have a variety of other reasons they shouldn’t have firearms. i.e they’re on probation, ex-felons. Let them deal with the cops for blithely lobbing bullets around.

[Author]

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