OT: Ideas For Gun Owner Accountability

[NotCranky]

The world is a ghetto.

I think it’s legit to say that some of this is just neighborhood “growing pains” . I think 5 or less acres would be better for gun control though.

It makes it rough where my kids want to spend time in the houses of known gun users.Up until now I did not have any particular ground rules and nothing ever happened. But after an incident this weekend we started working on that.

My kids now know they are to call us or come home from anywhere that guns come out and it was not prearranged with me. I will be talking to the parents of their friends an ask them not to bring guns out or just don’t invite my kids over anymore.

[ucodegen]

[quote=Blogstar]I know the difference between bb guns and high powered rifles.Let’s be serious.[/quote]I am. I have fired a .223 that sounded like a BB gun, but definitely wasn’t. Many BB guns are built to look like an AR-15, just Google(or Bing if you go that way) “AR-15 BB”. I don’t know how you are determining what the caliber is, so I have questions as to accuracy. I also don’t know what your personal experience with firearms is. I do know that many ‘backcountry’ people in SD have BBs that look like real rifles, and they do tend to ‘plink’ in the back yard (which is not necessarily a good idea either).

[quote=Blogstar]My direct neighbor has many guns but mostly uses a very fast but small caliber rifle.[/quote] This sounds like it might be a BB. Newer BB guns are much different than the old ‘Daisy’ BB guns. Some make a loud ‘pop’, but after you have been around real .22LRs, .223, .30s etc, one learns the diff, which can be subtle. One thing to listen for is the time between the ‘pop’ and impact(particularly if against metal).

[quote=Blogstar]Most the people who shoot regularly shoot high caliber guns, not shot guns which I think would be reasonable….the targets for these rifles are in plain sight of everyone.[/quote]Actually shot guns are some of the nastiest guns around. A slug round from a shot gun will go through a cast iron engine block, as well as brick. Double ‘aught ‘projectiles’ are actually roughly the same size as a .38, except every trigger pull releases 8 .38 caliber rounds from a shotgun. A shotgun is also an ‘area’ weapon, not a point weapon. Another thing to consider with shotguns, is that the propellant charge is considerably larger than with many rifles.

[quote=Blogstar]I checked to see if that law could be enforced, not for any specific neighbor. I wanted to know. 150 yards! Some live on lots that are not really suitable for shooting but they still do. Picture the top of a hill. Others are better situated but not great.[/quote]Even bottom of the hill may not be good. Bullets can skip upwards off of rocks. Had a situation where a round from a GAU8 (gun on an A-10) was found near Death Valley. NTC training area is a ways to the south-south-west and usually the live fire on A-10s is in the opposite direction from Death Valley, into the base of the mountains north of NTC. Safety does depend upon how they set up, though it does sound a bit irresponsible. If on 150 yd lot, should be firing into a walled off area -walled with concrete filled cinder brick for most things above a .22. For BMG, AK-47, and high powered 762 (.30) rounds, need a bit more.

[quote=Blogstar]I wrote my County supervisor. Trust me , no one cares. You are welcome to actually investigate wether or not this shooting is being enforced.[/quote]Sounds like it is the politicians in your area, not politicians in general.

[quote=Blogstar]You can come out and shoot on my property this weekend. You will probably see and hear other people shooting. It will be at about dinner time as we sit down with my wife and kids.[/quote]Tempting. Would be interesting to bring a Barret out when they are ‘plinking’. Problem is that you really need something to stop that bullet. Bricks, Cinder Bricks don’t work (I like to be responsible with the lead I let fly). I remember working at a defense contractor and someone outside started firing either a M2 or Barret. It would resonate through the entire complex. Gets your attention fast. NOTE: The .50 BMG Barret round is illegal in California, but the .416 round for the Barret isn’t. Neither is the .50 EU round, for some odd reason.

PS: Just how far out ‘in the country’ are you??

[ucodegen]

[quote=Blogstar]I think big properties go to people’s heads ….properties 600 feet wide X 1200 feet long with bullets flying at multiple thousands of feet per second.[/quote]
Range of a:

.22LR(Long Rifle) is about 150yds(450 feet) muzzle velo 1000fps to 1800fps. The higher velo rounds are a light bullet which means the range is actually shorter (Not much mass to carry energy through air resistance. NOTE Air resistance is roughly proportional to square of airspeed).

.38 special (handgun), range under 500 yds accurate use is much less, muzzle velo 1000fps

.357 magnum (handgun), range under 500 yds, accurate use is much less, muzzle velo 1350fps

.223 round like in M16, AR-15. Max effective range is 300 yds, generally more useful at 200yds. Penetration at 300 is poor, penetrates paper to almost 600yds. Muzzle velo 2300fps – 3000fps. Because of low mass of bullet, does not carry energy well to target. This round is controversial amongst the arms services even to this date. Most engagements are 300 to 900 yds. Some special mods to bullets to try to carry more velo are being tried. The AK-47 uses a .30 cal bullet, which carries velo to greater distances.

.30-06 rifle round, range about 3500yds (wide difference in performance with these, top end being 5000yds, but not much penetration power at the high end), muzzle velo 2400fps to 3500fps. (Big game round, larger than used on AR-15)

[spdrun]

Accountability? How about this? If you shoot without proper precautions even on your own property and someone gets killed, you’re liable for murder, both in civil court ($$$ lawsuits) and criminally (20 years in prison)?

[NotCranky]

You are right about the politicians.

WIth the shotgun I am thinking about shooting skeet or something like that. I think that can be more or less safely arranged?

Wrong about the BB guns.

Not that far in the country about 20 miles to the beach as the crow flies but on the end of a rural road…most people commute to parts of San Diego for work. we are 25 minutes from a fancy new Sheriff’s substation.

People who know guns better than I do are speculating that some of the shooters may be using .307’s. Some are probably shooting hand guns. It’s funny, the shooting families are scared of the others who shoot but think their stuff is all good.

[spdrun]

Shooting, off road motorcycles, large barking dogs, 4×4 monster trucks, weird animals that were never meant to be pets, you name it.

Apart from the irresponsible shooting, the other things sort of sound like fun. Next bike will probably be a KLR-650 painted flat black with ammo cases bolted to the panniers.

Or a Kondor (Swiss military surplus bike with Ducati thumper motor) if I can source an example in good shape.

Only question is, do I get the “POOR IMPULSE CONTROL” tattoo on my forehead or not?

[NotCranky]

[quote=spdrun]

Shooting, off road motorcycles, large barking dogs, 4×4 monster trucks, weird animals that were never meant to be pets, you name it.

Apart from the irresponsible shooting, the other things sort of sound like fun. Next bike will probably be a KLR-650 painted flat black with ammo cases bolted to the panniers.

Or a Kondor (Swiss military surplus bike with Ducati thumper motor) if I can source an example in good shape.[/quote]

Nobody cares about this kind of stuff in moderation at reasonable times. It is fun if that’s what get you going. Actually none of it is a problem. It is in places but not here. More problem dogs. The shooters are scared of other shooters but don’t want to get it shut down and that is the majority attitude I believe.

[NotCranky]

[quote=spdrun]Accountability? How about this? If you shoot without proper precautions even on your own property and someone gets killed, you’re liable for murder, both in civil court ($$$ lawsuits) and criminally (20 years in prison)?[/quote]

How about not terrorizing your neighbors ….to hell with getting shot.

Even with the current situation there would be serious damages paid if someone got shot, but you can’t spend that from 6 feet under Can’t get a kid back or even fix a blown out eye for him. I have written the county supervisor twice about enforcing the law and fear that someone will be hurt. Hopefully, that liability will mean something one day…because some of the neighbors don’t have much to lose and some don’t realize that they do.

[ucodegen]

[quote=Blogstar]
WIth the shotgun I am thinking about shooting skeet or something like that. I think that can be more or less safely arranged? [/quote] Possibly, but there is a problem of a skeet not getting shot and where it may land. The other problem is that people may not like lead shot ‘raining’ down on their property (It will not have penetrating power beyond 50 to 75 yards) You could use steel shot (which will not cause ground toxicity from lead buildup).

[quote=Blogstar]Not that far in the country about 20 miles to the beach as the crow flies but on the end of a rural road…most people commute to parts of San Diego for work. we are 25 minutes from a fancy new Sheriff’s substation.[/quote] PV is almost 60 miles from beach as crow flies, so I guess I don’t know which substation you are talking about.

[quote=Blogstar]People who know guns better than I do are speculating that some of the shooters may be using .307’s. Some are probably shooting hand guns. It’s funny, the shooting families are scared of the others who shoot but think their stuff is all good.[/quote].307s have less velocity than .306 or .308 (velo about 2500 fps. It does carry its power fairly well over distance though – kill distance probably around 1800 feet+). Are you sure there is not some sort of shooting range out there?

[NotCranky]

You are too incredulous on this matter. I am sure you can imagine that I don’t want to go into too much detail, Ucode. A lot of the shooting I know about is safe as long as the gun goes off in the right direction. Some of it is only safe if the bullet stays low to the ground all the way to the intended target and whatever backstop there is. There are no ranges.Due to the contours, I don’t think my property is safe for any long range gun but nobody would stop me if I wanted to shoot. No charges would be filed if someone did call the Sheriff. I don’t have a shooting range.

I am not on a mission to impeach all gun off range gun shooting, even out here, but I think someone in law making should start to consider it. Recreational shooting should be confined to approved ranges and approved hunting grounds period.

And yes, people in the city could have just as many guns, Possibly be more likely to shoot them at someone, but you don’t normally see them practice with them and wonder if an accident is about to happen.

[ucodegen]

[quote=Blogstar]You are too incredulous on this matter.[/quote]Because I have also dealt with reactive types that blow simple things out of proportion.. so I question.. just about everything.

[quote=Blogstar]I don’t think my property is safe for any long range gun but nobody would stop me if I wanted to shoot. No charges would be filed if someone did call the Sheriff. I don’t have a shooting range.[/quote]The use of the firearm on the property is the one I am a bit incredulous about. Maybe because it just seems basically dumb to me. A .22 umm maybe ok, but a .307 is just plain dumb. As for shooting range. I didn’t mean you, I meant a shooting range near the area you are in.

[Hobie]

Maybe you could find yourself a spent .307 round or whatever, knock on his door and ask him to aim away from your side.

[Coronita]

I don’t know.. When it comes to gun accountability… I think we should look the the expert in our state.

Former State Senator Leland Yee…

Afterall, I think he is/was a champion of banning guns and gun control….

Of course, we know the reason why now… So he can increase his profits for his nice side business of selling illegal guns with his gangster buddy….

[NotCranky]

[quote=ucodegen][quote=Blogstar]You are too incredulous on this matter.[/quote]Because I have also dealt with reactive types that blow simple things out of proportion.. so I question.. just about everything.

[quote=Blogstar]I don’t think my property is safe for any long range gun but nobody would stop me if I wanted to shoot. No charges would be filed if someone did call the Sheriff. I don’t have a shooting range.[/quote]The use of the firearm on the property is the one I am a bit incredulous about. Maybe because it just seems basically dumb to me. A .22 umm maybe ok, but a .307 is just plain dumb. As for shooting range. I didn’t mean you, I meant a shooting range near the area you are in.[/quote]

I know what you meant about a shooting range and was just showing you by my example that one is not needed. There are none.

I probably am overreacting, where I come form guns are used to shoot people, but even if no one here actually wants to shoot someone, what is going on sure seems to defy common sense and a sense of respect for your other neighbors.

[scaredyclassic]

I guess this is why we have HOAs

[Author]

Posts