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FlyerInHi.
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September 30, 2016 at 7:46 AM #801659September 30, 2016 at 9:07 AM #801663
FlyerInHi
Guest[quote=CA renter]
It’s easy to cost-shift the burden to those who are most vulnerable and least able to bear these costs — being displaced from their occupations or neighborhoods, being pushed down the political/social totem pole, etc. Again, it’s easy to bathe in self-righteousness when you’re not the one paying the price. It’s time for those who make these decisions, and who most benefit from them, to make the greatest sacrifices.[/quote]How are the protesters in Murietta and Imperial beach being displaced by refugees? The refugees were simply being processed at an immigration center in Murietta. And in Imperial Beach, the mayor simply issued a goodwill statement.
You’re right, such shameful behavior doesn’t happen in a vaccum. It happens because people encourage and feed the racists. I’m embarrassed that is happening in our San Diego communities.
Immigrants don’t displace anyone. They make our country richer. They fill labor demand and create new jobs through their economic and cultural contributions. California is so much better today thanks to all the immigrants who came in the last few decades. We are better than the flyover thanks to our economic and cultural dynamism.
September 30, 2016 at 9:30 AM #801666zk
Participant[quote=CA renter]
We need to stay the hell out of other people’s countries
[/quote][quote=CA renter]
We owe these refugees safe zones in their own countries, and we have the obligation to pay whatever it takes to have a sufficient enough military presence to protect them within these zones. [/quote]How do you reconcile these two ideas?
September 30, 2016 at 9:33 AM #801667Anonymous
Guest[quote=zk][quote=CA renter]
We need to stay the hell out of other people’s countries
[/quote][quote=CA renter]
We owe these refugees safe zones in their own countries, and we have the obligation to pay whatever it takes to have a sufficient enough military presence to protect them within these zones. [/quote]How do you reconcile these two ideas?[/quote]
The same way the dog catches its own tail.
Keep running around in circles…
October 1, 2016 at 2:35 AM #801709GuestWhen a foreigner resides among you in your land, do not mistreat them. The foreigner residing among you must be treated as your native-born. Love them as yourself, for you were foreigners in Egypt. I am the Lord your God.
Leviticus 19:34
October 1, 2016 at 9:52 AM #801717Participant[quote=FlyerInHi]When a foreigner resides among you in your land, do not mistreat them. The foreigner residing among you must be treated as your native-born. Love them as yourself, for you were foreigners in Egypt. I am the Lord your God.
Leviticus 19:34[/quote]
Hilarious, Brian. As if religious people are going to look at a sacred text and suddenly agree with something they’d previously disagreed with. As if they actually follow the word of their god without twisting it around to meet their own desires. Please.
October 1, 2016 at 10:42 AM #801720flu
Participant[quote=zk][quote=FlyerInHi]When a foreigner resides among you in your land, do not mistreat them. The foreigner residing among you must be treated as your native-born. Love them as yourself, for you were foreigners in Egypt. I am the Lord your God.
Leviticus 19:34[/quote]
Hilarious, Brian. As if religious people are going to look at a sacred text and suddenly agree with something they’d previously disagreed with. As if they actually follow the word of their god without twisting it around to meet their own desires. Please.[/quote]
I find the irony between those that support Trump and those claiming to be Christian.
October 2, 2016 at 12:17 PM #801740Participant[quote=flu-redux]
I find the irony between those that support Trump and those claiming to be Christian.[/quote]
The christian right has always been very unchristian. Trump takes it to a whole other level.
October 5, 2016 at 4:12 AM #801828CA renter
Participant[quote=zk][quote=CA renter]
We need to stay the hell out of other people’s countries
[/quote][quote=CA renter]
We owe these refugees safe zones in their own countries, and we have the obligation to pay whatever it takes to have a sufficient enough military presence to protect them within these zones. [/quote]How do you reconcile these two ideas?[/quote]
Easy. One is the result of the other (and context matters…if you had read my posts in their entirety, the answer would be obvious).
I am totally opposed to invading other countries in an attempt to forcibly “open markets,” or extract resources, or overturn fairly popular and effective leaders, etc. This is almost always what we are doing when we go into other countries. Sure, our leaders try to provide cover by constructing some story about how we are “liberating” some particular group or getting rid of “dictators,” etc.; but the truth is that we are almost always in other countries because our military exists to serve and protect corporate interests.
But the refugees that I was referring to above **already exist** because of our meddling and disastrous actions. As a result, we owe it to them to try to repair what we have damaged as best as possible. And we owe the innocent civilians protection for as long as necessary. While we are doing this, we should take absolutely no action to establish a “Western-friendly” government, or to benefit any Western corporations or interests of any kind. All of our actions should be decided by the will of the local people; and nothing we do should be for our own benefit or the benefit of any of our “allies.”
Ultimately, the goal is to avoid creating refugees to begin with. That’s why I support a fairly isolationist military agenda (and fair, not “free,” trade).
October 5, 2016 at 4:16 AM #801829Participant[quote=flu-redux][quote=zk][quote=FlyerInHi]When a foreigner resides among you in your land, do not mistreat them. The foreigner residing among you must be treated as your native-born. Love them as yourself, for you were foreigners in Egypt. I am the Lord your God.
Leviticus 19:34[/quote]
Hilarious, Brian. As if religious people are going to look at a sacred text and suddenly agree with something they’d previously disagreed with. As if they actually follow the word of their god without twisting it around to meet their own desires. Please.[/quote]
I find the irony between those that support Trump and those claiming to be Christian.[/quote]
That’s because you’re looking at it from a superficial, one-dimensional perspective. If you consider all of the variables involved, you’ll see that, in general, these people are more worried about their economic, political, and social survival than their religion.
Brian’s quote also highlights the fact that the “immigrant issue” has been a problem throughout human history. Humans are tribal animals, and as such, it is perfectly natural for them to cling to what is most familiar to them, especially when resources are scarce and people feel threatened and insecure.
October 5, 2016 at 4:19 AM #801830
CoronitaParticipant[quote=CA renter][quote=flu-redux][quote=zk][quote=FlyerInHi]When a foreigner resides among you in your land, do not mistreat them. The foreigner residing among you must be treated as your native-born. Love them as yourself, for you were foreigners in Egypt. I am the Lord your God.
Leviticus 19:34[/quote]
Hilarious, Brian. As if religious people are going to look at a sacred text and suddenly agree with something they’d previously disagreed with. As if they actually follow the word of their god without twisting it around to meet their own desires. Please.[/quote]
I find the irony between those that support Trump and those claiming to be Christian.[/quote]
That’s because you’re looking at it from a superficial, one-dimensional perspective. If you consider all of the variables involved, you’ll see that, in general, these people are more worried about their economic, political, and social survival than their religion.
Brian’s quote also highlights the fact that the “immigrant issue” has been a problem throughout human history. Humans are tribal animals, and as such, it is perfectly natural for them to cling to what is most familiar to them, especially when resources are scarce and people feel threatened and insecure.[/quote]
So what you’re saying is religion is bullshit, and people really don’t believe and do what they preach.
October 5, 2016 at 4:20 AM #801827Participant[quote=flu]In today’s world take Uber for example. Do you still need to bend over and pay an arm and a leg for regular yellow cab? What do you think Uber has done to the traditional cab business model? And now let’s suppose Lyft or Uber is interested creating a autonomous ride sharing service that requires no driver. Then what? What do you think naturally happens to the the folks that were cab drivers. Lyft and Uber might need to hire more R&D engineers to build this.
Uber’s First Self-Driving Fleet Arrives in Pittsburgh This Month
The autonomous cars, launching this summer, are custom Volvo XC90s, supervised by humans in the driver’s seat.Near the end of 2014, Uber co-founder and Chief Executive Officer Travis Kalanick flew to Pittsburgh on a mission: to hire dozens of the world’s experts in autonomous vehicles. The city is home to Carnegie Mellon University’s robotics department, which has produced many of the biggest names in the newly hot field. Sebastian Thrun, the creator of Google’s self-driving car project, spent seven years researching autonomous robots at CMU, and the project’s former director, Chris Urmson, was a CMU grad student.
“Travis had an idea that he wanted to do self-driving,” says John Bares, who had run CMU’s National Robotics Engineering Center for 13 years before founding Carnegie Robotics, a Pittsburgh-based company that makes components for self-driving industrial robots used in mining, farming, and the military. “I turned him down three times. But the case was pretty compelling.” Bares joined Uber in January 2015 and by early 2016 had recruited hundreds of engineers, robotics experts, and even a few car mechanics to join the venture. The goal: to replace Uber’s more than 1 million human drivers with robot drivers—as quickly as possible.
The plan seemed audacious, even reckless. And according to most analysts, true self-driving cars are years or decades away. Kalanick begs to differ. “We are going commercial,” he says in an interview with Bloomberg Businessweek. “This can’t just be about science.”
[/quote]Thank you for posting these articles, flu. Most people would agree that technology is displacing human workers, that’s not debatable. The problem is that the people who were already displaced by technology (over decades) have traditionally been the low-to-middle class working Americans. They’ve already been displaced and are fighting for whatever scraps are left behind. In their world, there has long been a huge oversupply of labor, and the introduction of greater numbers of cheap, exploitable foreign labor has made things even worse for these people.
Your article also defines part of the problem: they are hiring “dozens” or “hundreds” of these higher-end tech workers “…to replace Uber’s more than 1 million human drivers with robot drivers…”
It’s clear that the number of new jobs created by the shift to higher-level tech jobs is minuscule compared to the jobs being lost.
What do we do with all of the people who are being displaced by technology? And why should we add to this burden by adding even more workers to an already over-saturated labor market?
This is the primary reason for the discontent among current and former working-class Americans (of multiple races and ethnicities). What some see as “racism” is really a fight for survival. These people have been steadily and dramatically losing their economic, political, and social power, and it’s been happening for decades (the suicide rate for this group is near a 30 year high). It’s perfectly understandable that they would support the first politician who claims to be standing up for the American working class (Trump on the right, and Bernie on the left). Nobody’s done that in decades. To the contrary, it seems as though our political leaders have long thrown these workers under the bus in order to court foreign workers and a more globalist agenda.
[Note: this is an excellent article which helps to explain what’s been happening. Please read it. -CAR]
http://www.nationalreview.com/article/434544/white-working-class-mortality-rates-are-increasing
And while we keep hearing the drumbeat about needing more education, especially in STEM subjects, there is no shortage of college graduates, and no shortage of people with STEM degrees. The job openings where there is a high demand for workers tend to be in very concentrated areas, and there is no way that these few openings can even begin to make a dent in our under/unemployment rate, even if every person out there were to get a specialized degree in the required subject(s).
http://cacm.acm.org/blogs/blog-cacm/180053-computing-is-the-safe-stem-career-choice-today/fulltext
October 5, 2016 at 4:38 AM #801831CoronitaParticipant[quote=CA renter]
Thank you for posting these articles, flu. Most people would agree that technology is displacing human workers, that’s not debatable. The problem is that the people who were already displaced by technology (over decades) have traditionally been the low-to-middle class working Americans. They’ve already been displaced and are fighting for whatever scraps are left behind. In their world, there has long been a huge oversupply of labor, and the introduction of greater numbers of cheap, exploitable foreign labor has made things even worse for these people.
Your article also defines part of the problem: they are hiring “dozens” or “hundreds” of these higher-end tech workers “…to replace Uber’s more than 1 million human drivers with robot drivers…”
It’s clear that the number of new jobs created by the shift to higher-level tech jobs is minuscule compared to the jobs being lost.
What do we do with all of the people who are being displaced by technology? And why should we add to this burden by adding even more workers to an already over-saturated labor market?
This is the primary reason for the discontent among current and former working-class Americans (of multiple races and ethnicities). What some see as “racism” is really a fight for survival. These people have been steadily and dramatically losing their economic, political, and social power, and it’s been happening for decades (the suicide rate for this group is near a 30 year high). It’s perfectly understandable that they would support the first politician who claims to be standing up for the American working class (Trump on the right, and Bernie on the left). Nobody’s done that in decades. To the contrary, it seems as though our political leaders have long thrown these workers under the bus in order to court foreign workers and a more globalist agenda.
http://www.nationalreview.com/article/434544/white-working-class-mortality-rates-are-increasing
And while we keep hearing the drumbeat about needing more education, especially in STEM subjects, there is no shortage of college graduates, and no shortage of people with STEM degrees. The job openings where there is a high demand for workers tend to be in very concentrated areas, and there is no way that these few openings can even begin to make a dent in our under/unemployment rate, even if every person out there were to get a specialized degree in the required subject(s).
I don’t have an answer to this. I wish there was a magic wand that we could wave, and presto, everyone has a good paying job. I’m just identifying that people are barking at the wrong problem.
With advancement in technology, a lot of people will get replaced by technology, more so than cheap labor. That said, technology also creates a lot of jobs. Someone is going to have to operate those new robots and machine, someone is going to have to service those new robots and machines, and someone is going to have to install those new machines. Will it replace every job loss? No, of course not. But what it will do is offer some an opportunity.
Here’s an example. I just took my X5 in for a recall to replace a driveshaft. And along the way, the mechanic found that I have an oil leak from a oil filter canister seal. Total cost? $12 for parts $1200 for labor. I’m like you’re kidding right? He’s like, well to replace the seal, we have to disassemble the intake manifold to access the third bolt, and disconnect the coolant lines, and flush the oil and the coolant…..
I thought he was taking me for a ride, so I searched online, and yup it’s a common “maintenance item” that people with the exact same engine has experienced on 3,5,X series cars. And while the labor rates in San Diego are ridiculous, the hours he quoted was within reason of the job comparing to what others have claimed it cost them too.Ok, aside from the fact that BMW’s are pieces of shxt after just after 5years of ownership and 29k miles, the point is all this complexity in building the “Ultimate Driving Machine” (or in my case the Unreliable Driving Machine”) has created an unprecedented demand for high skilled workers. These guys that don’t need a STEM degree, or an advanced robotics or aerospace degree. what they do need is vocational training. And there is a demand for people with such skills, for those that are willing to do this. And those skills will be knowledge that not everyone without training can do, which is important. It won’t replace every job lost, but it will offer some people an opportunity.. (For the record I declined the repair, and will DYI it and save the money and buy another gold bullion bar,lol)
October 5, 2016 at 5:56 AM #801832Participant[quote=CA renter]
That’s because you’re looking at it from a superficial, one-dimensional perspective. If you consider all of the variables involved, you’ll see that, in general, these people are more worried about their economic, political, and social survival than their religion.[/quote]
What is “superficial” (and short-sighted) is a person who actually believes in god being more concerned about anything than what their god says they should do.
“Yeah, I know I might spend eternity in hell for this, but I don’t care what Jesus said because I need a few extra bucks, I want this particular asshole in office, and I don’t want to be a pariah.” Genius.
October 5, 2016 at 6:25 AM #801833Guest[quote=CA renter]Brian’s quote also highlights the fact that the “immigrant issue” has been a problem throughout human history. Humans are tribal animals, and as such, it is perfectly natural for them to cling to what is most familiar to them, especially when resources are scarce and people feel threatened and insecure.[/quote]
Yes, human history.
Remember the Luddites? They’re back, fighting uber cars this time around…
BTW: “Perfectly natural” does not imply ethical.
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