MMoore movie SiCKO

[jztz]

Haven’t watched it, but will (have watched MM’s other documentaries and like them). Yes, he dramatizes a topic, hence brings debate and discussion and awareness.

US healthcare system is highly in-efficient for the money it spends. It’s now about 15% of GDP, and easily double the per capital spending of the next country (Japan?), and we achieve less – lower life expectancy, higher infant mortality rate, 45 to 50M of uninsured …

Market economy works if consumers have a good sense of price/value ratio. But with healthcare, that’s very difficult if not impossible. How do you know how much to pay for a cancer drug? What if you’re in urgent pain? Do you know your doctors enough to know the right price to pay him/her? Also, empirical evidence show that people undervalue life when it’s their money (private contractors going to Iraq), but overvalue life when insurances pay for it. In fact, in market economy (or a private payer system like the US) prices tend to be much higher. Other countries, such as Japan and European ones, have country wide price controls and periodical price drops for medicine and other medical equipment. That’s why all pharma companies want to market/distribute their drugs in the US because of high prices.

HMOs are just a sad way to control the rampant cost increases when prices are set by manufacturers (pharma companies, etc, etc) and those with insurance think that they should be entitled to all medical means regardless of costs.

Fundamental reform in healthcare for sure is needed, and I hope that Hillary will get it done the second time she tries.

[jztz]

Haven’t watched it, but will (have watched MM’s other documentaries and like them). Yes, he dramatizes a topic, hence brings debate and discussion and awareness.

US healthcare system is highly in-efficient for the money it spends. It’s now about 15% of GDP, and easily double the per capital spending of the next country (Japan?), and we achieve less – lower life expectancy, higher infant mortality rate, 45 to 50M of uninsured …

Market economy works if consumers have a good sense of price/value ratio. But with healthcare, that’s very difficult if not impossible. How do you know how much to pay for a cancer drug? What if you’re in urgent pain? Do you know your doctors enough to know the right price to pay him/her? Also, empirical evidence show that people undervalue life when it’s their money (private contractors going to Iraq), but overvalue life when insurances pay for it. In fact, in market economy (or a private payer system like the US) prices tend to be much higher. Other countries, such as Japan and European ones, have country wide price controls and periodical price drops for medicine and other medical equipment. That’s why all pharma companies want to market/distribute their drugs in the US because of high prices.

HMOs are just a sad way to control the rampant cost increases when prices are set by manufacturers (pharma companies, etc, etc) and those with insurance think that they should be entitled to all medical means regardless of costs.

Fundamental reform in healthcare for sure is needed, and I hope that Hillary will get it done the second time she tries.

[what_a_disasta]

All those who think that we need in home diaper and laundry service like france for new mothers and are willing to pay a 40% tax rate to get it raise your hands…

I pay around that much tax to live in California.

healthcare system will still have a ‘gatekeeper’ that will have the same job as any HMO, namely to grant or deny coverage.

The whole point of universal coverage is nobody gets denied the care they need. If its critical (in the UK at least) you get seen at once, they wont make you wait. However, people might have to wait a bit to get that boob job or whatever other non critical procedure, unless they want to pay for it themselves. I actually have to wait longer for a doctors appointment in CA than I ever did in the UK.

[what_a_disasta]

All those who think that we need in home diaper and laundry service like france for new mothers and are willing to pay a 40% tax rate to get it raise your hands…

I pay around that much tax to live in California.

healthcare system will still have a ‘gatekeeper’ that will have the same job as any HMO, namely to grant or deny coverage.

The whole point of universal coverage is nobody gets denied the care they need. If its critical (in the UK at least) you get seen at once, they wont make you wait. However, people might have to wait a bit to get that boob job or whatever other non critical procedure, unless they want to pay for it themselves. I actually have to wait longer for a doctors appointment in CA than I ever did in the UK.

[LookoutBelow]

Already saw it, our healthcare is as bad as you all might imagine it is in your worst nightmares, but hey ….its insurance, they make money by collecting premiums…NOT by paying claims….follow the money, pretty simple really, they slop the troughs of both sides of the aisle so no politician is going to be too disagreeable with big pharma…

 

M. Moore does manipulate the facts to suit his opinions however, but no more than any other public figure in my estimation, but his points are well taken. I think his portrayal of 3rd world countries and other more socialist/communist countries having better healthcare compared to ours is a little (lot) over blown.

If I needed heart surgery, I would want the guy that is the most successful in his trade to do my operation. In a capitalist society, the way people are measured in their success of their profession is by pay…. I want the guy who drives a porsche, not the guy who takes the bus to work.

Good health is NOT a right, its a privilege….Unfortunately for the sick who are poor also, but what can you do ? At some point everybody must take responsibility for themselves, if your sick and your poor, your gonna get worse and maybe die….if your a billionaire like that old fart Amway founder (Jay Van something or other) and you've simply outlived your heart and need a transplant, then your gonna get a new heart, cuz you can "afford" it…simple as that…People in India readily sell their organs for financial gain….Its a HUGE industry over there. Life is onyl precious..if you can afford it.

 

[LookoutBelow]

Already saw it, our healthcare is as bad as you all might imagine it is in your worst nightmares, but hey ….its insurance, they make money by collecting premiums…NOT by paying claims….follow the money, pretty simple really, they slop the troughs of both sides of the aisle so no politician is going to be too disagreeable with big pharma…

 

M. Moore does manipulate the facts to suit his opinions however, but no more than any other public figure in my estimation, but his points are well taken. I think his portrayal of 3rd world countries and other more socialist/communist countries having better healthcare compared to ours is a little (lot) over blown.

If I needed heart surgery, I would want the guy that is the most successful in his trade to do my operation. In a capitalist society, the way people are measured in their success of their profession is by pay…. I want the guy who drives a porsche, not the guy who takes the bus to work.

Good health is NOT a right, its a privilege….Unfortunately for the sick who are poor also, but what can you do ? At some point everybody must take responsibility for themselves, if your sick and your poor, your gonna get worse and maybe die….if your a billionaire like that old fart Amway founder (Jay Van something or other) and you've simply outlived your heart and need a transplant, then your gonna get a new heart, cuz you can "afford" it…simple as that…People in India readily sell their organs for financial gain….Its a HUGE industry over there. Life is onyl precious..if you can afford it.

 

[meadandale]

“I pay around that much tax to live in California.”

Nonsense. YOu probably pay 28% federal tax with 9-11% ca tax on top of that.

How’d you like that to go up to 40-50% federal tax with an additional 10% ca tax on top?

I pay for my own healthcare. I have insurance but most of the time when I go to a doctor I pay out of pocket because I have a very high deductible (to keep my premiums low). Because of this, I only visit the doctor when I’m sick, not when I just have some random sniffle.

It’s not cheap but its worth the alternative of death or bankruptcy. When given the choice, most of the people that NEED universal coverage wouldn’t pay for health insurance. They’d rather get it for free. That’s the problem. They want it but they refuse to pay for it.

[meadandale]

“I pay around that much tax to live in California.”

Nonsense. YOu probably pay 28% federal tax with 9-11% ca tax on top of that.

How’d you like that to go up to 40-50% federal tax with an additional 10% ca tax on top?

I pay for my own healthcare. I have insurance but most of the time when I go to a doctor I pay out of pocket because I have a very high deductible (to keep my premiums low). Because of this, I only visit the doctor when I’m sick, not when I just have some random sniffle.

It’s not cheap but its worth the alternative of death or bankruptcy. When given the choice, most of the people that NEED universal coverage wouldn’t pay for health insurance. They’d rather get it for free. That’s the problem. They want it but they refuse to pay for it.

[Anonymous]

w_a_d, you’re right, no need to fight those wars with those terrorists overseas. Let’s just let them park their bomb-filled Mercedes’ anywhere and everywhere that they want in our home countries.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070630/ap_on_re_eu/britain_bomb_defused_76;_ylt=AoGqa_n7TXFnHP3HBW5jR6sE1vAI

Pull your head out of the sand, man. We’ve got to kill those vermin over there so that we don’t have to fight them over here.

[Anonymous]

w_a_d, you’re right, no need to fight those wars with those terrorists overseas. Let’s just let them park their bomb-filled Mercedes’ anywhere and everywhere that they want in our home countries.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070630/ap_on_re_eu/britain_bomb_defused_76;_ylt=AoGqa_n7TXFnHP3HBW5jR6sE1vAI

Pull your head out of the sand, man. We’ve got to kill those vermin over there so that we don’t have to fight them over here.

[uncomfortably numb]

You people don’t get it. The health care system is doing EXACTLY what it is designed to do…make huge amounts of money for the corporations which control it. You, as is the case for most Americans, just can’t believe that the health care system was taken over by people whose mandate is to produce the highest return for shareholders.

This system is this way because it’s the law. Wake up people!! You’re living in a fairly tale which no longer exists.

[uncomfortably numb]

You people don’t get it. The health care system is doing EXACTLY what it is designed to do…make huge amounts of money for the corporations which control it. You, as is the case for most Americans, just can’t believe that the health care system was taken over by people whose mandate is to produce the highest return for shareholders.

This system is this way because it’s the law. Wake up people!! You’re living in a fairly tale which no longer exists.

[one_muggle]

Things that are true:

Healthcare is screwed up.
Doctors lie to cover other Doctors.
Everyday people sue Doctors without cause.
Everyday a Doctor deserves to get sued.
Everyday a rich person get better care than a poor person.
Everyday a poor person in the US gets better care than a King twenty years ago.
Everyday someone dies because of a Doctor’s mistakes.
Everyday a Doctor saves a life.
Every year someone graduates last in his class in medical school and earns the title Doctor.
Everyday medical students face increasing tuition and liability and decreasing salaries.(http://www.consumerwatchdog.org/malpractice/nw/?postId=1950&pageTitle=Oregon+Doctors+Push+Legislators+for+Malpractice-Insurance+Relief)
Everyday Paris Hilton pays her dog sitter more per month than the chief of surgery at USC. (OK, I made that up)
And IMHO:
Michael Moore has an agenda.
Michael uses artistic license to push his agenda http://www.davekopel.org/terror/59Deceits.pdf
He isn’t always wrong.
But, he doesn’t try too hard to be right.
And he doesn’t let facts get in the way of a story that advances his agenda.
I girl I knew in college had a friend who said he heard from a very reliable source that Michael Moore eats unborn babies… It might have been a chicken egg, but we have no concrete evidence that it wasn’t a human baby. Maybe we should make a Crocumentary and let the world know.
Lastly, everday MM does less for this country and the world than do Bill Gates, Steve Jobs, or Michael Dell.

-one muggle

[one_muggle]

Things that are true:

Healthcare is screwed up.
Doctors lie to cover other Doctors.
Everyday people sue Doctors without cause.
Everyday a Doctor deserves to get sued.
Everyday a rich person get better care than a poor person.
Everyday a poor person in the US gets better care than a King twenty years ago.
Everyday someone dies because of a Doctor’s mistakes.
Everyday a Doctor saves a life.
Every year someone graduates last in his class in medical school and earns the title Doctor.
Everyday medical students face increasing tuition and liability and decreasing salaries.(http://www.consumerwatchdog.org/malpractice/nw/?postId=1950&pageTitle=Oregon+Doctors+Push+Legislators+for+Malpractice-Insurance+Relief)
Everyday Paris Hilton pays her dog sitter more per month than the chief of surgery at USC. (OK, I made that up)
And IMHO:
Michael Moore has an agenda.
Michael uses artistic license to push his agenda http://www.davekopel.org/terror/59Deceits.pdf
He isn’t always wrong.
But, he doesn’t try too hard to be right.
And he doesn’t let facts get in the way of a story that advances his agenda.
I girl I knew in college had a friend who said he heard from a very reliable source that Michael Moore eats unborn babies… It might have been a chicken egg, but we have no concrete evidence that it wasn’t a human baby. Maybe we should make a Crocumentary and let the world know.
Lastly, everday MM does less for this country and the world than do Bill Gates, Steve Jobs, or Michael Dell.

-one muggle

[Coronita]

fat_lazy_union, I have to agree with the assesment, but I might wait for it to show up on the documentary channel. IMO Michael Moore is one reason the rest of world generally despises the ugly American. He's a fat, wealthy, spoiled American, claiming how terrible America is. He ought to spend a year as a native does in Sudan, China, or India, then see what he thinks about America.

 

The irony to MM is that he probably shoved enough of the those Big Macs down his fat throat for it to be an issue moving forward. Both him and Rush are just tubs of lard, and probably contributing to the increased cost of our health system.

[Author]

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