Foreign politics/policy discussions on this forum – a suggestion

[Lickitysplit]

Exactly the point I was about to make SDRealtor. There really is no such thing as an “impartial” survey. Polsters can get whatever result they wish with the wording. This has been proven over and over again. It is pretty easy to realize that how you ask the question greatly affects the answer. Everyone does this in their daily lives.

LK, our goverment answers to our people, not the world. Furthermore, I put very little stock in opinion polls. The only polls that matter occur at the ballot box.

[PD]

I agree. I think we need to get rid of the electoral system for that very reason. The purpose for which it was established is no longer valid. We should have a popular vote. The big states have too much power and it is not right.

[carlislematthew]

We should have a popular vote.

I totallty agree. I often wonder what Gore would have done after 9/11.

[lostkitty]

“Thanks for sharing that and participating in this forum. I invite you to consider my point of view…”

Licketysplit – our government does answer to our people… and our people are saying they think this Iraq thing is crap, and our people think the president is not doing a good job representing them. His approval ratings are dropping week by week.

Nevertheless, if you believe no polls, and think most people’s opinions dont matter, and the media has been driving the liberal agenda for years, and the opinion of the world does not matter… I guess you are on your own then. Have fun ‘debating’ this.

[PD]

We will never know. The situation is extremely tricky and Gore was just as likely to make as misstep and anyone else. I was hoping that there would be some changes made after that debacle with the electoral votes. I voted for Bush, wanted him to win, but would have accepted a popular vote president, if that was the law. Florida ended up deciding for the entire country. This should have not happened in 2000 and it should not happen in 2008 or 2088. I do, however, have no doubts that Bush won in Florida, just as I have no doubt Gore won the popular vote.

My feelings about the electoral college are without political bias and have nothing to do with who I wanted or want for president.

[sdrealtor]

I have relatives in FLA that know numerous people that were PREVENTED from voting in liberal democratic areas.

Personally I dont trust any politicians. The have one agenda….to stay in power not to serve their constituencies. That’s about as political a view point as you will ever get from me.

[PD]

SDR said, “I have relatives in FLA that know numerous people that were PREVENTED from voting in liberal democratic areas.” If that is true, then I am outraged. The democrats went to some lengths to see to it that a number of the absentee votes were not counted, knowing they were heavily military. I was outraged about that too.

Just how were your friends prevented from voting? Are you making an accusation that Republicans illegally blocked access to voting locations? I would like more information.

There are occasionally cases of fraud in voting and the blood is on the hands of BOTH parties. In 2000, while voting in a liberal area here in California, I think it likely that voting fraud was perpetrated against me. The polling place was in someone’s garage. I filled out my form and handed it to one of two women working there. The second woman then came out of the house carrying a simple box (not an official voting box). We were the only people there. I was distracted by my infant because she started to cry. I left. It was only later that I realized that the woman who took my voting card did not put it in the official box, nor did she encourage me to do so. She kept it in her possession. I realized later that she could easily have taken my ballot into the house and punched a few extra holes in order to invalidate some or all of my votes. I went right over to my neighbor to discuss the situation with her and discovered that she had already made a formal complaint about the voting irregularities of that polling place. We later found out that at least two other neighbors experienced problems there.

[Lickitysplit]

What a wonderful brush off LK. Since you like polls, here’s a PEW study for you to check out, as reported by NPR. I would consider NPR the most liberal of the major US broadcasters, so it’s hard to say I cherry picked from a conservative page 🙂

NPR: Pew Study: Journalists and Liberal Bias

The huff-huff at the end is especially entertaining. Basically “but… but… how dare you point out our bias! People might not automatically accept everything we tell them! This might make people realize our lack of objectivity!”

Also, doing away with the Electoral College would give large states more power, not less. I like the electoral college in that it strikes a nice compromise giving some protection from dense population areas automatically imposing their will on rural areas. Y2K election doesn’t factor in. It’s history, move on. 😉

[PD]

Lickitysplit, why would doing away of the electoral college give big states more power? I think it actually disenfranchises a number of people. For instance, if you live in a state that is heavily democratic (like California), then your republican presidential vote ends up counting for nothing.

I’m simplifying here and know it. What am I missing?

[Lickitysplit]

I haven’t looked at the electoral college in some time, so if I’m wrong here somebody jump in. It is my recolection that the electoral votes given to each state equals their number of members in congress. The house is based on census data, more people equals more votes. The senate is based on two per state, regardless of size, giving Wyoming as many votes as California. So one favors the populus, while the other puts each state on equal footing regardless of population. Combining the two for the electoral college is a nice balance.

In my opinion, doing away with the EC would greatly increase voter fraud. I’ve experienced plenty of it myself in my home state of Wisconsin. While I was in college, many would vote absentee, then hop on a bus to get taken to a polling place. As students could vote at any polling place, some would even get back, hop on a different bus and vote again some place else. People would brag of voting 3 or 4 times in the same election. It made me sick. During the last major election, partisan volunteers slashed the tires of rental vans that the other party was going to use to bus the poor and elderly to the polls. They were convicted, and one was an elected politician’s son. Milwaukee also has seen more ballots than registered voters, people voting under the names of deceased, convicts voting, etc. It is a sorry mess. Unfortunately reform is difficult, as which ever party benefits from the fraud resists efforts to fix.

[Lickitysplit]

A related consequence of getting rid of the EC would be the complete marginalization of low-population states in national politics. Who’s going to campaign in WY when the entire state only has half a million people? Who’s going to care about their issues? Politicians will follow the votes, and the rural states would be crushed.

[PD]

The politicians don’t spend much time in small population states as it is. They go to the states with the most electoral votes (ie voters). I do think there is a problem when the popular vote does not jive with the results of the electoral vote. Plus, people who place each electoral vote have the personal power to vote any way they choose. They can (but rarely do) vote contrary to how they supposed to vote.

The Bush family has tried to secure Texas and Florida. The Clintons abandoned Arkansas and set up camp in New York for the same reason (2008).

[Lickitysplit]

(mostly) agreed PD, but not every politician wins their home state, even at the presidential election level.

See here for details.

Edit: Not looking to rehash 2000, but here’s an illustration of why the electoral college gave the election to bush while he lost the popular vote. GWB won more than 3x as many counties, and more than 4x as much area.

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