Foreign politics/policy discussions on this forum – a suggestion

[bgates]

Powayseller, 9pm:
If Bush is in Iraq to go after the 9/11 source of terrorists, then he should instead be in Saudi Arabia because that’s where the terrorists came from. So this just shows it’s not about the 9/11 terrorists. It’s also not about freeing women from rape, as PD asserts, because we are not sending our military to Africa.

So what is the real reason that Bushie boy sent the military to Iraq? And what happens if they refuse to go? Are they allowed to think for themselves? Will they be court martialled for refusing to fight in an offensive war?
Earlier:
I have no agenda other than wanting to learn.
Powayseller, you’re a liar.

[PD]

Powayseller, you are putting words in my mouth again. I do recall making a comment about the poor women of Afghanistan and their plight but I am quite certain that I never said that we should invade Iraq to save women from rape. —HS, here is your chance to jump in on my behalf.

As for helping other countries, including those in Africa, the United States has provided a significant amount to assistance both in people and money. As an example, we tried to stabilize Somalia and help the people of that country. Do you remember Mogadishu? Brave Americans lost their lives on those streets. Clinton quickly withdrew because of pressure from Americans just like you. Somalia is still a terrible mess, a mess we did not create but tried to alleviate.

[bgates]

ZK, it is absolutely a valid comparison, when people ignorant of military history assert the incompetence of the Iraq war with no evidence or support. People howl about military deaths in Iraq in complete ignorance of how dangerous the military is in the best of times.

I don’t understand your objection to helping people resist tyranny if doing so advances other American interests. Spreading democracy isn’t the only reason we’re in Iraq, but it’s a reason. Life is complicated. Things have multiple causes.

[PD]

Bgates is right on all points.

I have been to a number of memorial services for good friends killed during training. I am fortunate that I do not know anyone personally who has died in Iraq.

[powayseller]

You guys, please please answer the questions.

I think you guys skim my threads because you don’t want to really understand what I have to say.

I cannot learn your views until you answer the questions I asked in the previous 2 posts.

bgates, lie? Huh?

[hs]

PD, Please do not drag me into your fight. I do not wish to see HS on your post again.

As a spouse, with my husband’s more than 20 years military service, I love this country and have always supported the military, but I don’t like Iraq war, period!

Please leave me alone.

[PD]

Hs, I was inviting you to defend me against Powayseller’s post where she put words in my mouth, just as you vehemently defended lostkitty when you believed I had done the same the her. I thought it was possible that you would defend anyone in a similar situation.

[hs]

As I said ” Please leave me alone “. I don’t want to have anything to do with YOU from now on. clear enough? Thank you!

[Lickitysplit]

Point made yet?

PS – the reason I have not responded to your “questions” is because your political tone has always suggested poor research and understanding of the topic, complete lack of respect for views divergent from your own, and a tendency to grab on to anything that supports your tightly-held, preconcieved views, no matter how far-fetched. I do not believe you engage in political discussion in good faith, and have neither the time nor the inclination to dialog under such conditions. As such, yes, your political posts will be skimmed at best, and not responded to. They do not do you credit.

[lostkitty]

“Thanks for sharing that and participating in this forum. I invite you to consider my point of view…”

I have read the links provided by those who support the war, and I hope some of you will read this one regarding a recent PEW survey of world opinion towards US and other nations. It is a survey conducted annually (for many years running – not one thought of just to prove a certain group’s contemporary perspective):

http://www.commondreams.org/headlines06/0615-02.htm

Please read and comment – and I will continue to read your links as well.

[PD]

Lostkitty, I read your link. Thank you for reading my link. I try to be fair and respectful of others. I hope I accomplish this goal but am aware that I have faults just like six billion other people on this planet. It can be easy to stumble off the path of respect and fairness, you always need to be looking where you are going.

I do not think it is good idea to base our foreign policy on what is popular. The right course is rarely the easiest course. This is not a statement about whether our actions are currently right or wrong, rather, it is simply a statement that policy should not be a world popularity test – now or in the future.

If there is widespread support for suicide bombings targeting children and families waiting at bus stops, does this make it right?

I am reminded of the country song that says, “A man who doesn’t stand for something will fall for anything.”

Volker was not too popular when he was fed chairman but I hear a lot of admiration for him on this forum. History will put it in perspective and judge us that way. The future has a way of reacting in ways we cannot predict. An action or inaction today might have a completely unforeseen consequence.

For instance, let us say we had responded sharply to the first World Trade Center Bombing. Our weak, almost nonexistent response may well have encouraged 9/11 because we looked pathetically ineffectual. Unfortunately we will never know if we could have changed things.

We turned tail and ran out of Somalia because it suddenly was not popular. Once again we looked weak and ineffectual.

Hitler was allowed to take over a little chunk of Europe unchecked. Everybody was happy to do the popular thing by making friends and appeasing him. We all know what happened next.

I do think that it was time we showed ourselves a strong nation, resolute in adversary and willing to swim upstream.

[Lickitysplit]

The website you link from is dedicated to futhering liberal ideals. Perhaps not the most unbiased source?

Are you suggesting that we should base our policies on what will make us more “popular” in world opinion?

How does the “world” get its information regarding US activies? (A: Media)
Who controlles that information? (A: obviously journalists, etc)
Do those who control that information have a policy agenda or preference that is visible in their dispursment? (I say yes. If you disagree, do your own looking into it. Voting patterns, pos/neg spin rate correlation to issue, political party, etc)
Do you think there’s a chance that this bias is successful in its goal to effect opinion? (I say, unfortunately, yes. People generally don’t educate themselves and simply blindly take whatever they are fed)

[lostkitty]

“Thanks for sharing that and participating in this forum. I invite you to consider my point of view…”

I agree that the results of the survey were reported on a liberal site – but the survey itself was conducted impartially.

And yes, I do think that politics should be based (in some measure) on what is most popular. Who does the government represent anyway??? The POPULAtion.

WE THE PEOPLE get to decide what is right and wrong. Not that small group over there that ‘thinks’ they know what is best.

I do, also, think that world opinion matters. “Getting along” globally matters. How could it not?

[sdrealtor]

Kitty,
I’m just thread skimming here but one quick thought to consider. Truly impartial surveys are very rare in reality. The way you ask a question impacts the response you get and it is very easy for the survey sponsors biases to be introduced unintentionally.

[lostkitty]

“Thanks for sharing that and participating in this forum. I invite you to consider my point of view…”

http://pewglobal.org/about/

You can check out the organization for yourself and decide.

[Author]

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