OT:Cross Country Road Trip Anyone?

[CA renter]

[quote=paramount]While I don’t condone illegal immigration in any way, I also understand that a favorite cover story for HATRED is the illegal immigration issue.[/quote]

Bullshit.

The problems related to illegal immigration are very real, and people who voice their concerns about these issues are NOT racist (or “haters”).

Personally, I don’t care if we magically eliminate illegal immigration, or if we make the employers pay for all the costs related to illegal immigrants and their dependents. But we DO need to find workable solutions to our illegal immigration problems. We cannot continue with pretending that these problems don’t exist, and we cannot continue with the false claims that people who point out these problems are somehow “racist” or “xenophobic.”

[Dougie944]

I happen to know a lot about this subject…..

A US citizen does not have to “show papers”. The law was labeled with that name by people that do not like it in order to fire people up. That seems to have worked. A law enforcement officer, after making a lawful stop, would make a determination of alienage using a number of factors to decide the veracity of the individual’s claim. Also on the stop, he could and probably would run each occupant for warrants during the stop. Not much different.

There is no database for determining US citizenship. It would be based on a number of factors, the first of which might be simply asking the individual if they are a US citizen. An answer of no would lead to the next question of seeing their immigration documents to legally be in the US.

It is US federal law that legal immigrants must carry their immigration documents on them at all times. On a side note, I went to 4 Euro countries last year and had to show and carry my immigration documents at all times. I didn’t call their policemen “swine” or rail about the tyranny and didn’t seem to have any problems.

If law enforcement officers are making unlawful stops. Use the court system to correct those abuses.

To reiterate, US citizens do not need to “show papers”, legal immigrants do need to show their immigration documents, and illegal aliens need to be sent home no matter who makes the lawful encounter. Unlawful encounters should be taken to court. Politicians should address our country’s immigration law and produce a comprehensive policy that does not encourage illegal immigration.

[spdrun]

The swinish part wasn’t them checking my citizenship. It was being bombarded with personal questions AFTER presenting valid proof of citizenship (i.e. US Passport).

The purpose of the internal checkpoints is to check for citizenship, not to go on a fishing expedition. As a citizen, I shouldn’t have to account for why I choose to travel in my OWN country. And didn’t, despite what the pigs wanted me to do.

Your situation in Europe was different since you were a foreigner.

[Hobie]

+1 CAR and Dougie

[scaredyclassic]

What if I’m a citizen but as a matter of policy never answer a police officers question ever. But I’m kind of dark. Do I have to go to a federal detention facility while the govt sorts it out?

[spdrun]

Apparently not, so long as they can prove you’re a legal citizen and not carrying any contraband.

[no_such_reality]

[quote=paramount][quote=spdrun]

I have no problem with BORDER checks at the border. I do have a problem with random checks inside the US. I have an even bigger problem with probing questions about things that are none of the business of the people asking them, and have no relation to whether I’m carrying drugs, have a trunk full of “extreme Southerners,” or am an American citizen.[/quote]

Exactly. These are suspicion-less and illegal/unconstitutional interior checkpoints.[/quote]

You must hats Dui checkpoints

Driving is a privilege not a right

[Hobie]

I know you are having fun with this Walter, but I would like you to answer your own question.

[spdrun]

DUI checkpoints are specifically for checking for intoxication. I’m not a fan of them, but the ones I’ve gone through either asked me to blow, or asked me whether I had been drinking (cop sniffed the air) and didn’t do anything else. They didn’t go on a fishing expedition as to my itinerary for the next few weeks.

When you’re given a license, you sign an implied consent form allowing breath and drug testing. This does NOT extend to being required to state your personal business for the next few weeks.

BTW – the Border Patrol checkpoints don’t only necessarily check drivers. The 2-lane portion of Rt. 94 is theoretically usable by pedestrians and cyclists.

[CDMA ENG]

WTF…

Four pages of AZ bashing…

Anyone want to included NM or TXs into the mix?

These problem are not inherient to AZ. They are to all border states including this one.

CE

[spdrun]

They’re also confined to the Federal government, who prefers harass American citizens already in the country instead of ACTUALLY SECURING THE BORDER.

[Dougie944]

Submitted by spdrun on June 27, 2012 – 1:58pm.
Story to tell — this crap doesn’t only happen in AZ:
I was driving from AZ to CA, and I took the scenic route to San Diego about 2 years ago. I’m pretty much straight-up white, but I was pulled over by Border Pigs twice.

As you can see from the above quote, you labelled each set of Border Patrol Agents as Border Pigs even though you thought the first detention was handled well. It wasn’t the personal questions that brought the swine reference you tried to spin.

Border Patrol Agents are allowed to look for other violations of the law while you are at the checkpoint. As you must know, you drove within a 1/4 mile of the border in those locations and those roads are commonly used to leave the area by smugglers.

Agents can ask questions and you are free not to answer. It just might take a little longer to do their job. While you are waiting, they are still getting paid. I can assure you that your protest is no skin off any agents back. Feel free to continue, but do not think you are making anyone’s life unpleasant except your own.

[spdrun]

Even so, I’ll stand on my rights, as is my DUTY as an American citizen.

Correct: the personal questions occurred at the second stop, not the first. The first was conducted professionally, and without wanting to know my itinerary for the next few weeks.

Looking for other violations of the law? Sure. Last I checked, police aren’t allowed to pull people over at random and grill them on whether they plan to speed, and where they plan to sleep, for the next few weeks. Border Patrol shouldn’t do so either, at least not unless someone is actually entering the US.

And yes, I think that people who choose to follow orders to harass innocent people with personal questions that have no bearing on whether they’re committing a crime, are pigs. “Just doing a job” is no excuse at all. They’re free to get different jobs. Prostitution and burger-flipping are good options if they can’t do anything else useful.

[davelj]

[quote=UCGal]
Do you carry your passport with you everywhere you go? [/quote]

Yes. My wallet – if that’s what you would call it – consists of just four items: (1) US Passport Card, (2) drivers license, (3) ATM card, and (4) a credit card. It might be the thinnest wallet on record. If folks are required to carry a license to drive – and aren’t particularly put out by so doing – how difficult is it to carry a passport card? Just sayin’…

[Dougie944]

Just to be clear, the Border Patrol does not check anyone while they come through the ports of entry. Customs agents do that. BP agents are arresting people that skirt around the fence, run, hide, and jump into vehicles that are driven by US citizens, legal immigrants, and other illegal aliens. Those smugglers use the roads that other citizens use everyday. The checkpoints are there as a layered approach to help control an area. When you come up to a checkpoint, each agent should be wondering if you are legally in the country and whether you are potentially smuggling. Simple questions as you have described are not easy to answer when someone is nervous and trying to be evasive, such as when someone is smuggling. I doubt there are orders to harass as you suggest.

For the record, a checkpoint stop and a vehicle stop are not the same thing in the eyes of the law. Different levels of suspicion are needed and your initial stop at the checkpoint was not random as everyone entered the checkpoint. Contrary to your assertion, a policeman, during a lawful traffic stop, can engage you and ask you
questions.

If you have read the court rulings that have given the checkpoints their authority, then surely you would see how the Supreme Court took a lot of care in trying to balance everyone’s Constitutional Rights, public safety, and the need to secure the border.

I can understand that checkpoints aren’t considered ideal, but I would love to hear your solution on how to catch those entering illegally.

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