- This topic has 136 replies, 24 voices, and was last updated 11 years, 2 months ago by
spdrun.
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June 28, 2012 at 1:10 PM #746733June 28, 2012 at 1:19 PM #746734
Anonymous
GuestFor one thing I’m not a conservative. I voted for Obama in the last election and will so again (although I may write in Ron Paul out of principal).
Secondly, if you really don’t believe that there is a federal law in the books that non-citizens have to carry documentation, then that is your problem. Try learning to use the Internet or go to a libarary. These laws have nothing to do with the constitution.
Also, I never implied that police should go around looking for people who don’t speak English. The point is that in the course of regular police work, that is one obvious indication that someone is not a US citizen.
I hate to burst your bubble Brian but the majority of my liberal Democrat leaning friends actually support the Arizona law, including my father who is a hard core lefty who lives in AZ.
June 28, 2012 at 6:38 PM #746775UCGal
Participant[quote=deadzone]Non-US citizens are required to carry documentation by law. I don’t need to prove that to you. Everyone is required to carry driver’s license while operating a vehicle.
[/quote]
Ok. I’ll try to make my point again.
US Citizens are *not* required to carry documentation of their citizenship.
Drivers licenses are not citizenship documents, btw.
So – a cop pulls over someone who they suspect is here illegally. That person, a citizen, cannot produce the required paperwork… so they get hauled into the police station. Perhaps they don’t have the appropriate paperwork… the percentage of US citizens with passports is very low. And how many people keep a certified copy of their birth certificate readily available. (e.g. not in a safe deposit box, at their parents house, etc.)The problem is that it will effect people who “look” like they might be illegal more than those who “look” like citizens. We’re supposed to be a melting pot – but in this case hispanics will get asked for proof more than caucasians, blacks, and asians.
Alabama has had some bad luck with their papers please law. First they detained a german car exec. Then a japanese car exec. Not good for the local economy (car plants) when you’re harrassing the executives. Missouri is now advertising that they won’t harrass car execs if they move their plants to that state.
http://news.yahoo.com/alabamas-house-approves-changes-tough-immigration-law-015925894.htmlJune 28, 2012 at 6:55 PM #746777
CoronitaParticipant[quote=UCGal][quote=deadzone]Non-US citizens are required to carry documentation by law. I don’t need to prove that to you. Everyone is required to carry driver’s license while operating a vehicle.
[/quote]
Ok. I’ll try to make my point again.
US Citizens are *not* required to carry documentation of their citizenship.
Drivers licenses are not citizenship documents, btw.
So – a cop pulls over someone who they suspect is here illegally. That person, a citizen, cannot produce the required paperwork… so they get hauled into the police station. Perhaps they don’t have the appropriate paperwork… the percentage of US citizens with passports is very low. And how many people keep a certified copy of their birth certificate readily available. (e.g. not in a safe deposit box, at their parents house, etc.)The problem is that it will effect people who “look” like they might be illegal more than those who “look” like citizens. We’re supposed to be a melting pot – but in this case hispanics will get asked for proof more than caucasians, blacks, and asians.
Alabama has had some bad luck with their papers please law. First they detained a german car exec. Then a japanese car exec. Not good for the local economy (car plants) when you’re harrassing the executives. Missouri is now advertising that they won’t harrass car execs if they move their plants to that state.
http://news.yahoo.com/alabamas-house-approves-changes-tough-immigration-law-015925894.html%5B/quote%5DWell, at least Alabama is an equal opportunity harrassing state!
June 28, 2012 at 7:06 PM #746779spdrun
ParticipantI agree with all of this. But usually I have a loaded trunk, kid and/or dog with me in the 100+ deg heat and reservations to spend the night somewhere in NM or El Paso. Both are long drives from SD.
Generally, it helps the louts’ attitude if they know that their interactions are being recorded AND streamed to the cloud via a 3G connection. i.e. smashing or confiscating the camera phone won’t help at all.
June 28, 2012 at 8:40 PM #746790Guest[quote=UCGal][quote=deadzone]Non-US citizens are required to carry documentation by law. I don’t need to prove that to you. Everyone is required to carry driver’s license while operating a vehicle.
[/quote]
Ok. I’ll try to make my point again.
US Citizens are *not* required to carry documentation of their citizenship.
Drivers licenses are not citizenship documents, btw.
So – a cop pulls over someone who they suspect is here illegally. That person, a citizen, cannot produce the required paperwork… so they get hauled into the police station. Perhaps they don’t have the appropriate paperwork… the percentage of US citizens with passports is very low. And how many people keep a certified copy of their birth certificate readily available. (e.g. not in a safe deposit box, at their parents house, etc.)The problem is that it will effect people who “look” like they might be illegal more than those who “look” like citizens. We’re supposed to be a melting pot – but in this case hispanics will get asked for proof more than caucasians, blacks, and asians.
Alabama has had some bad luck with their papers please law. First they detained a german car exec. Then a japanese car exec. Not good for the local economy (car plants) when you’re harrassing the executives. Missouri is now advertising that they won’t harrass car execs if they move their plants to that state.
http://news.yahoo.com/alabamas-house-approves-changes-tough-immigration-law-015925894.html%5B/quote%5DThe german and Japanese car execs should have had their passports with them, that is the law in every state, not just AL, that foreign visitors carry their passports.
While a driver’s license is not a “citizenship document” from a federal point of view, it is a pretty good proxy. In almost all states, including California, you can’t get a driver’s license unless you are a legal resident. Therefore if you have a valid state issue driver’s license, I doubt the AZ police would have any reason to suspect you as being illegal. Again, I don’t see where race fits into this equation.
June 28, 2012 at 9:01 PM #746792
svelteParticipant[quote=deadzone][quote=UCGal][quote=deadzone]Non-US citizens are required to carry documentation by law. I don’t need to prove that to you. Everyone is required to carry driver’s license while operating a vehicle.
[/quote]
Ok. I’ll try to make my point again.
US Citizens are *not* required to carry documentation of their citizenship.
[/quote]While a driver’s license is not a “citizenship document” from a federal point of view, it is a pretty good proxy. [/quote]
What if you’re a passenger? If you are a US citizen and you are not driving, you are not required to carry a DL.
No need to prove citizenship then, eh?
June 28, 2012 at 9:32 PM #746794bearishgurl
Participant[quote=deadzone]…While a driver’s license is not a “citizenship document” from a federal point of view, it is a pretty good proxy. In almost all states, including California, you can’t get a driver’s license unless you are a legal resident. Therefore if you have a valid state issue driver’s license, I doubt the AZ police would have any reason to suspect you as being illegal. Again, I don’t see where race fits into this equation.[/quote]
Uhh, deadzone, I am personally aware of “unauthorized immigrants” who have a CA Driver License. And I’m sure the few that I know are merely a drop in the bucket.
From: http://www.dmv.ca.gov/dl/dl_info.htm#BDLP
in pertinent part:
Birth date verification and legal presence requirements
The issue of identification reliability, integrity, and confidentiality is of prime concern to all citizens. Eligibility for government services, issuance of various licenses, assessment of taxes, the right to vote, etc., are all determined through evaluations based on identification documents. It is critical that identification documents be authenticated and accurate in identifying each individual. The California driver license and ID card have been declared as primary identification documents in this state by the California legislature.
State law requires every applicant for an original California identification (ID) card and driver license to show verification of birth date and proof of legal presence within the United States to help safeguard the accuracy and integrity of departmental documents.
If your current name no longer matches the name on your birth date/legal presence document, see “True Full Name” and “How to Change Your Name” for more information.
Only the original or a certified copy of one of the following documents is acceptable:
US Birth Certificate (certified copy from state or local vital statistics office)
US Certificate of Birth Abroad or Report of Birth Abroad
Federal Proof of Indian Blood Degree
USCIS American Indian Card
Birth Certificate or passport issued from a US Territory
US Passport or US Passport Card
US Military Identification Cards (Active or reserve duty, dependent of a military member, retired member, discharged from service, medical/religious personnel)
Common Access Card (only if designated as Active military or Active Reserve or Active Selected Reserve)
Certificate of Naturalization or Citizenship
Northern Mariana Card
USCIS US Citizen ID Card
Permanent Resident Card
Temporary Resident Identification Card
Canadian Passport/Birth Certificate
Non–resident Alien Canadian Border Crossing Card
Valid foreign passport with a valid Record of Arrival/Departure (form I–94)
“Processed for I–551” stamped in a valid foreign passport
Permanent Resident Re–entry Permit
Refugee travel document
Certified court order or judgment issued from a court of competent jurisdiction. Must contain name, birth date, place of birth, legal presence status, and judge’s signature.
Certification from California Department of Corrections or California Youth Authority
Employment Authorization Card
Valid I–94 stamped “Refugee,” “Parole or Parolee,” “Asylee,” or Section 207, Section 208, Section 209, Section 212d(2), HP or PIP
Valid I–94 with attached photo stamped “Processed for I–551 temporary evidence of lawful admission for permanent residence”
Notice of Action (I–797 Approved Petition) – must indicate approved extension of stay or change in status that grants temporary or permanent residency, or indicates that an original, duplicate or renewal Resident Alien card is forthcoming.
Immigration judge’s order granting asylum
Mexican Border Crossing Card with valid I–94
U.S. Border Crossing Identification card with valid I–94Once their “temporary gig” is up, they still have a DL lasting four years OR can theoretically remain in the US while “shopping” 24/7, lol. Not sure if they can renew their DL’s by mail, though.
June 28, 2012 at 9:38 PM #746796mike92104
Participant[quote=svelte][quote=deadzone][quote=UCGal][quote=deadzone]Non-US citizens are required to carry documentation by law. I don’t need to prove that to you. Everyone is required to carry driver’s license while operating a vehicle.
[/quote]
Ok. I’ll try to make my point again.
US Citizens are *not* required to carry documentation of their citizenship.
[/quote]While a driver’s license is not a “citizenship document” from a federal point of view, it is a pretty good proxy. [/quote]
What if you’re a passenger? If you are a US citizen and you are not driving, you are not required to carry a DL.
No need to prove citizenship then, eh?[/quote]
Easy: “What is your social security number?” “What is your name?”
Call it in, if it matches and is valid, you’re good to go.June 28, 2012 at 9:59 PM #746798Participant[quote=mike92104]Easy: “What is your social security number?” “What is your name?” Call it in, if it matches and is valid, you’re good to go.[/quote]
mike, you might be SHOCKED at how many “unauthorized immigrants” are using the SSN AND identity of American decedents or young minors.
June 28, 2012 at 10:14 PM #746799Guest[quote=svelte][quote=deadzone][quote=UCGal][quote=deadzone]Non-US citizens are required to carry documentation by law. I don’t need to prove that to you. Everyone is required to carry driver’s license while operating a vehicle.
[/quote]
Ok. I’ll try to make my point again.
US Citizens are *not* required to carry documentation of their citizenship.
[/quote]While a driver’s license is not a “citizenship document” from a federal point of view, it is a pretty good proxy. [/quote]
What if you’re a passenger? If you are a US citizen and you are not driving, you are not required to carry a DL.
No need to prove citizenship then, eh?[/quote]
Correct, why should the police be concerned about the passenger if they are not doing anything illegal? Again, you anti-AZ folks rely on the assumption that all of a sudden all AZ police are “out to get” hispanics just becuase of this new law. That is purely an assumption that you are pulling out of your collective asses.
June 28, 2012 at 10:17 PM #746800Guest[quote=bearishgurl][quote=mike92104]Easy: “What is your social security number?” “What is your name?” Call it in, if it matches and is valid, you’re good to go.[/quote]
mike, you might be SHOCKED at how many “unauthorized immigrants” are using the SSN AND identity of American decedents or young minors.[/quote]
No doubt there are some illegal immigrants with driver’s licenses who slipped through the system. But my point is LACK of anytype of ID is reason to be supicious. Just one of many obvious reasons someone may be suspicious. Again, couple that with inability to speak English and it’s almost a slam dunk they are illegal.
June 28, 2012 at 10:20 PM #746801Guest[quote=bearishgurl][quote=mike92104]Easy: “What is your social security number?” “What is your name?” Call it in, if it matches and is valid, you’re good to go.[/quote]
mike, you might be SHOCKED at how many “unauthorized immigrants” are using the SSN AND identity of American decedents or young minors.[/quote]
Well if it is a hispanic guy and he says his name is Hung Nguyen that is another reason to be suspicious.
June 28, 2012 at 10:46 PM #746805paramount
ParticipantWhile I don’t condone illegal immigration in any way, I also understand that a favorite cover story for HATRED is the illegal immigration issue.
June 29, 2012 at 9:48 PM #746868Participant[quote=bearishgurl][quote=mike92104]Easy: “What is your social security number?” “What is your name?” Call it in, if it matches and is valid, you’re good to go.[/quote]
mike, you might be SHOCKED at how many “unauthorized immigrants” are using the SSN AND identity of American decedents or young minors.[/quote]
I would not be shocked at how many “Illegal Immigrants” are using fake documents or someone else social security number. However, that doesn’t validate the argument that they shouldn’t be checked.
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