Career Advice – To Move or Not to Move

[BostonAndOC_RE_perspective]

Bugs,
You’re right – it was a little caustic. I was trying to amplify what I think is the no-brainer choice to go back to law school. I speak from experience wrt going back to schol mid-career to launch a new career. Not only was it monetarily rewarding, but to be re-awakened intellectually and challenged harder than I ever was before was completely revitalizing. I came out of it a changed man.

I’d love to move back to SoCal. LA and OC were all I knew before I moved to New England a few years back. I haven’t found the kind of jobs available back home that I have in other areas as I have articulated ad nauseaum. I might have to wait until some small firm wants me as CEO to come home, but I’ve made my bed, and I sleep fine in it. On the jobs/investment note, did anyone happen to catch the article in the NY Times last Sunday on why Silicon Valley continues to spawn more new and re-born companies than any other place in the world? The net message was that the best and brightest seek out the best and brightest. Kind oflike going to get an advanced degree.

For the record, I’ve never owned a boogie board. Many shortboards, one longboard and a pair of Churchills for body surfing, but never a sponge.

I know some wildly successful folks that are huge Tony Robbins fans. The whole concept of mind control is very interesting, and I use many of the tactics in negotiations, but I haven’t drunk enough of the Kool-Aid to spring for the seminar and walk on hot coals. I may sometime soon!

[Bugs]

Okay, then I also apologize for the sponge comment.

One other thing of note here is that Juice already has 3 kids. That’s a bit different than having 2 kids, it’s a LOT different than having only 1 kid, and it’s another planet away from having no kids. Strangely enough, I think I was 29 when my wife had our 3rd child, so that makes about 5 parallels between his situation and mine way back when.

By the time I got to 3 kids my own personal goals became very secondary to my responsibilities as a parent. A kid isn’t like some video game that I could just pull off the shelf when I had time to play with it. They are a huge responsibility and I felt I had to work around their needs to some extent, not work them around my needs.

That didn’t stop me from pursuing a career change but it did influence the direction I went as well as the means I used to get there. True story.

[sdcellar]

Juice– I don’t think I’ve seen anywhere in this thread where you state that you actually love the study or practice of law. I think that gives you your answer.

[mixxalot]

Hi,

I am considering the joint MBA and JD program at USD unless I move out of San Diego for work. My interest is to mix business law with IP and finance. Would I be better off study for the CFA exams and what kind of job would that get me versus the MBA and JD?

Scott

[Anonymous]

Do you have an engineering undergrad degree?

[mixxalot]

No but I do have 10 years of experience in the IT computer field. Would I still do well in IP with a JD and MBA?

[Anonymous]

I’m probably not the best one to answer this question for you as I am not a lawyer nor an engineer or IT guy. However, I do know that you need to meet certain requirements to take the patent bar. If you want to do IP law, I have heard that you wont be as valuable, or really able to practice IP law at all, if you dont take that exam. Do a google search for patent exam reqs in CA, and you will see that you might need an engineering degree, science degree, perhaps an IT degree etc, or without one of those, you need to have taken a number of classes and have experience in those fields. If you have the interest and are qualified, I have heard that IP law pays great, that they are not as concerned about the school you went to/class rank as much as the experience you bring to the table etc.

[mixxalot]

I have researched the requirements to sit for the patent bar. It is different than the normal bar exam. You can take some science courses and still sit for it. One does not need an engineering or science degree. I think its about 5-6 college level science courses. Not bad because if you pass it, you can work as a patent assistant and make about 70k a year while going to law school part time.

I have given thought to it.

Now my question is about the CFA- what does it buy you with no financial experience? Would it get me a job?

[Anonymous]

Uggh. Law school. Sounds horrible.

[davelj]

I’d say yes, the CFA would definitely help get you a job… but here’s a small rub: In addition to passing the exams, you have to have 3 years of “qualifying work experience” in accounting, finance or economics before your charter is actually granted… but the CFA Institute is pretty generous about how they define such experience. For example, qualifying experience would probably include practicing as a securities lawyer, working as a commercial lender or even mortgage broker… again, they’re pretty liberal about the experience requirement.

Let me put it to you this way… let’s say I’ve gotta hire someone to work for me and I’m looking at two people. They seem pretty much the same from an experience standpoint but one went to Podunk University and got their CFA charter and the other went to Harvard Business School and doesn’t have their CFA charter. Without hesitation I’m going to favor the person with the CFA Charter. Why? Because over 95% of the people that went to HBS graduated, so I really don’t know what that person knows (it’s hard to get in, but you can be a complete dolt and graduate from a top MBA program). Maybe they’re the next Warren Buffett, maybe they’re an idiot. I have no idea. At least I know the person with the CFA Charter knows something tangible – they passed a very rigorous set of exams that a lot of smart people failed and their MINIMUM knowledge level is pretty decent. (Now this person may also turn out to be a dolt, but I’m playing the odds here…)

[Anonymous]

I’d hire the Harvard guy so that I can tell my clients that I have an advisor on staff with a Harvard MBA. They’ll likely get off on that and bring me more busines.

[Bugs]

One of my extended family members has an undergraduate degree from Harvard (but not an MBA). It hasn’t done a thing for him.

[sdrealtor]

Wouldn’t it be more accurate to say he hasn’t done a thing with it.

[Anonymous]

I graduated from Mizzou in 2005 with a law degree. I also grew up 40 miles outside of Columbia and got a BSEE and a Master’s degree from Mizzou. So I can provide you with a little perspective on Columbia and a little bit of insight on being a lawyer.

First of all, I think you’ve received some excellent advice and I side with the majority here that thinks you should take the job in Columbia. You can live very well in Columbia on $70K+. If you think you’ll be making $100K in short order while still working 40-hour weeks it’s really a no-brainer. It would be very, very difficult to make the equivalent of $100K in Columbia while working 40-hour weeks as a lawyer. There are just too many lawyers out there for jobs like that too exist. There is no shortage of lawyers and competition for jobs is pretty fierce.

As for law school, it’s hard. You will have to spend a lot of time studying if you want to do well. That was the consensus amongst my law school classmates. Everyone I talked to lamented the amount of work. I went full-time and couldn’t imagine going part-time while working a full-time job. However, it does get easier after the first year. As a part-timer with a full-time job, expect to have very little free time for the next four years. That’s a long time.

However, when you graduate you’ll have a nice high-paying job waiting for you right? Not necesarilly. Two of my friends didn’t have jobs when they graduated law school. IP law is supposed to be one of the more secure fields, but two guys with technical degrees (BSEE and BSCompSci) were laid off from my previous law firm and spent some time unemployed. Getting a law degree is no guarantee that you will get a job, much less a well-paying job with decent hours.

If you are able to do well in law school, you can definitely get a well-paying job, but you will likely work a lot of hours. You can see salary information for the big firms here:

http://www.infirmation.com/shared/insider/payscale.tcl

Just click on a state. However, to get one of those jobs you will likely have to finish in the top 10% of your class. The NALP directory is also a good resource for information on law firms:

http://www.nalpdirectory.com/index.asp

You should also read this board to see how difficult it is to switch from law to business or into any other field:

http://www.infirmation.com/bboard/clubs-fetch-msg.tcl?msg_id=00374T

The concensus on that board seems to be that a law degree is good for one thing and one thing only: practicing law.

As for Columbia, I’m biased, but I love the place. Of course, many people have fond memories of the town in which they went to college. However, I believe it was named one of the ten best places to live a while back so I’m not the only one that likes Columbia.

Good luck in whatever path you end up choosing.

[sdrealtor]

A little off topic but about 10 years ago I passed through Columbia while driving cross country. I had a friend who graduated from Mizzou and asked him where I should stop for lunch. He sent me to a greasy burger joint/bar & grill in the college area that was legendary. It was great. ANyone know the name of the place?

[Author]

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