Career Advice – To Move or Not to Move

[Anonymous]

Construction:

I don’t have to trust you – I am from Illinois myself! And I agree with everything you just said, unfortunately:) I wish we were in El Paso so the decision would be easier! I’m thinking that I will be spending little time doing those things here anyway though, and more time going to parks, soccer games, school events, etc. I can tell that you are single, and I remember those days fondly:)

[BostonAndOC_RE_perspective]

The peoplehere who reference legal salaries as 100K or less must know different lawyers than me. My best friends are all attorneys, and they went to tier 2/3 law schools like USD. Our peer group is late 30s. Grades in law school are VERY important, however that shouldn’t be an issue if you’re sharp and know how to work hard and work smart.

Don’t let anyone here kid you: A law degree is a license to print money. My friends make huge $$$ ($300K – $1M – $1M is a Wall Street guy), and the thrill of structuring corporate transactions or working a trade secret case is infinitely more professionally and intellectually rewarding than any 73K/year govt job. Take risks and don’t look back. A law degree gives you a shot at making 7 figures; the govt job doesn’t.

I completely agree with the notion of family first, but one should also think about the message we send to our children through our career choices and actions. If we want our children to aspire to accomplishing great things, shouldn’t we be role-modeling that sort of behavior?

[outtamojo]

“If we want our children to aspire to accomplishing great things, shouldn’t we be role-modeling that sort of behavior?”

Some folks consider raising kind and responsible kids to be a great accomplishment…

[outtamojo]

re “episode”
That “episode” was some kind of breakdown where she claimed she couldn’t remember cetain people and anything that happened for about 48 hours prior and had to be hospitalized and sent for psychiatric help cause she mentioned some things that convinced folks she was a danger to herself. Sad really as she is basically a nice kid-3.8 GPA, starts on the basketball team. She had a loser ex boyfriend she was still sleeping with and loaning her car to in hopes of getting him to come back to her, druggy friends she partied with and drove around while they drank in the back seat. Quite a full life for someone only 16 years old…

[Bugs]

I completely agree that role models are important to kids and that how a person chooses to live does set an example for their kids. However it does depend on exactly what a person’s definition of “great things” includes. That’s something that will vary by individual.

My dad worked his entire career in the executive jobs circle that you’re so fond of. Having seen it up close for the first 20 years of my life, I ended up choosing a different way and I’ve never once regretted that choice. For me, great things means something different than it did to him when he was my age back in the 1980s.

Different strokes. My initial job choice was also that of a commissioned officer in the military. Based on my experiences I daresay that even today someone starting out that way probably still has somewhat different priorities and different requirements than someone who started out on the corporate path. Fortunately, our world needs both kinds of people.

[Anonymous]

When I chose to join the service at age 18 (commissioned route as well) I did it because I had the passion for military service and it was pretty clear to me that it was the right thing to do at that time, and I wanted adventure. Money, stability, retirement etc. weren’t even on my list of cares at the time. Sound familiar?

One thing that I should mention is that this government job is actually a very well respected, competative position working on public and legislative issues. It will very easily, IMO, lead to a GS13 job in a few years that will pay 90-100k+. Honestly, I am qualified for that now, but the open ones are in DC, and I wasn’t interested in moving there. So anyway, it isn’t as if we are comparing law school to some mindless govt. job pushing travel claims:)

[AK]

No question about it.

MOVE.

Spend those precious years with your family building financial and emotional security.

I’m sure you’d do well as an attorney, but at this point in your life the costs would far outweigh the benefits.

If you need the intellectual challenge, start a part-time graduate or law program out in the Midwest — or even an online degree program.

If you miss the cultural and recreational opportunities, leverage the lower cost of living into family vacations.

[BostonAndOC_RE_perspective]

Whoa – who said that you can’t raise a high achiever that is also kind and responsible? That is what some self-help gurus would call a “limiting belief”.

Going to law school at this stage of your life is a ballsy, risky move. Risk-taking is the quality that 99.99% of successful (OK, defined usually monetarily) people share. Education, especially an advanced degree, further one that leads to an actual license to practice a high paying profession, thereby limiting entry to the field and thus your field of competitors, is ALWAYS a sound investment.

It sounds like you’ve already given up on going balls to the wall to rule at law school and snag the big $$$ job you’d apparently like to someday get. Good luck in Mizzou. It’s the safe choice.

[Bugs]

Boston,

Your “safe choice” comment was a nice shot.

Of course, I’m confident that Juice has already done everything he needs to do in this lifetime to prove his manhood. In my opinion someone like you is in no position question or comment on his ballsiness.

Juice,
Education is the best investment you can possibly make, PROVIDED you have some passion for where you’ll end up. Lots of people go to school for one thing only to do another because the job they were chasing turned out not to be their thing.

Pursuing an education primarily for the money is cool if that’s what you’re about. Boston sounds pretty happy about his choices other than the fact that he’s hanging out on an SD-centric blog and reminiscing about being a boogie-boarder (surfers usually refer to them as speedbumps – but that’s another topic altogether).

You have been speaking in terms of money so it’s clear that’s on your list, but I’m not getting the vibe from you that the big paycheck will overcome all. Were that the case you’d stay at your current job that already pays more than the one you’re considering as well as what a majority of attorneys here in town make. I’m sure your current job has it’s own trajectory that includes salary and promotional increases somewhere down the line.

It’s good that you’re trying to take the longer view, ’cause getting the job only marks a beginning, not an end. Maybe your decision process will save you from making a decision that you’ll regret by the time you turn 40. Whichever way you go I wish you good fortune.

[outtamojo]

“That is what some self-help gurus would call a “limiting belief”

Never been to a self-help guru but I do know that you can believe anything you want but believing and making it happen in the real world can sometimes be very difficult.

[Chance the Gardener]

Juice –

Is there a law school at the large university in this small Midwestern town? If so, how does it rank against USD? USD is in the 50’s last time I checked… so anything +/- 15 from that is likely equivalent. What was your LSAT score? You mentioned a MSEE, do you have a BSEE? Have you considered IP law? I promise my next post will have some actual advice, I just need to know more. I’m a 39 y/o 2L at Santa Clara with a BSEE and former military experience…

[Anonymous]

There is a FT law program, but no PT evening one like USD. If I had a BSEE I would seriously consider IP law, but I majored in international business and my abilities and interests are not geared towards engineering. Are you in a FT or PT program, and do you also have a family? One thing I am considering is just taking this job, moving, and next year if law school is still something I feel like I have to do I can reapply to other schools in cheaper locales. Like Illinois, where I could go full time for free!

[Anonymous]

Wow, Boston and OC, you sure spout those Tony Robbins lines left and right. Are you from L.A. or something?

[Chance the Gardener]

We don’t have any kids, and I’m not sure how I could do this if we did. My wife travels for work, and that actually helps me stay focused on the law.

I have a couple of very close friends who are lawyers. They have both been getting on me to go to law school for years. Now that I’m here, I think their instincts were right. I really enjoy the law.

That’s what you need to figure out. Whether you are going to enjoy it. And I’m not sure that’s possible without going through the motions. I don’t think there is anything you can read that will even begin to prepare you for law school or give you any idea what you’re about to face. I read everything I could find the year before 1L and very little of it was worthwhile. “Law School Confidential” was pretty good.

Your family and your military experience would be assets in law school… if not for you at least for the others in your class. If you go, you’ll realize how refreshing comments from people who have experienced more than undergrad can be.

Part timers are an interesting crowd. The admission’s bar is a little lower for PT’s at USD. More than a few people take advantage of that and apply to the PT program even though they have no intention of working. That means you will be going up against people who aren’t distracted by a job. 1L classes have a strict curve, in a class of 80 there are at most 8 A’s available. You sound pretty sharp, but you should know what you are facing. After the first year, many of the desired electives are taught in the evening only, so FT’s and PT’s are on the same footing. That’s little consolation if you are trying to get a big firm job because that competition is essentially over after your first year. If you aren’t at least top 20% after 1L, you’re effectively out of the race.

If you decide to go, buy the LEEWS Essay course. PRICELESS! Listen to the course, do the exercises. Practice early… as soon as you finish a topic in each class. Make up your own hypos and write practice answers. This is what matters. You’ll never be graded on your briefing skills… just on the essays. Learn how to apply the law to facts and organize your analysis. It’s the only thing you’ll ever be graded on. I didn’t find this until this year. In 1L I was top third, last semester I aced my exams. I credit LEEWS and early/often exam practice. OK, end of the commercial.

Waiting is a great idea. It sounds like your wife is holding off working until the kids get older? This advice probably won’t help you but I will share it anyway. My wife was concerned about me giving up my job to go to school. We took two years to “practice.” During that time, we lived on her income and banked mine. In the process we learned that we could live on her salary and we saved enough money to pay cash for tuition. While this might not work for you, think of other ways that you can minimize the stress of giving up your income. Full time for free sure sounds like a great start.

Good luck. Thanks for serving. Congratulations on living within your means and saving responsibly!

[Anonymous]

It is the part about it being a high paying profession with limited workers I am confused about. I realize that it can be high paying for some, but it appears that most will not make much more than government workers at the level I am considering. Also, to get that pay they probably have to work at least 15 or more hours a week and accept half as many vacation days. In the end, it is clear that law is the path to pursue if you are passionate about it, or if you go for the big bucks (graduate high in your class, work big law etc). I have to say though, it seems like there are a number of ways to make better money with less effort than being a lawyer. Lastly, what is most disconcerting is that there doesn’t seem to be a limited supply of lawyers at all, nor a demand for anyone but the top graduates from all but the top 30 schools. You can graduate with a nursing degree from anywhere and get headhunted endlessly with 70k+/year and a signing bonous, but with a law degree from USD you have to fight just to get an interview. I posted this thread to get advice, but now I am realizing that law schools are probably stacked with people who have no idea why they are there, other than the fact that their parents encouraged it and that it will be a ticket to riches. Not to knock all law students, or lawyers for that matter, as I’m sure many go on to great success and know why they are there.

(Chance gardener…I posted this before reading your post. Reading it now…)

[Author]

Posts