Bhutto assassination: CIA plot?

[XBoxBoy]

Allan,

Thanks for the clarification. I think we agree as to what happened in Afghanistan. As to Brzezinski, my impression is he’s doing what lots of people do. ie. after the fact he changes details to cast himself in a better light.

From what little I know, the Carter admin was not particularly supportive of the CIA, it’s covert operations, nor funding to the rebels in Afghanistan. But whether they were supportive or not, is kinda moot. The USA did fund the war and that’s fairly easy to document.

My only real point of disagreement then is whether we should have done what we did. I get the sense you supported what we did, and that you feel we probably should have done more. Sorry, but I disagree. However, since I’m not inclined to get into the lengthy debate about the value vs. the cost of covert operations, and the history of such, I’ll just leave it with I disagree, and hope you’ll agree to disagree on whether we should or should not have done what we did. Besides, in the end, that’s totally moot. We did it, and we will probably do it again. No one cares whether I support it or not. Such is life.

XBoxBoy

[Allan from Fallbrook]

XBoxBoy: I don’t wholeheartedly support US covert ops without reservation. Pragmatically speaking, it sometimes comes down to a choice between us and them. As I have opined before, it is rarely a choice of good versus bad; often, it is between bad and worse.

Unfortunately, that has put us in bed with some poor choices as far as partners or allies go. As you say, such is life.

I know that we have often bungled when it comes to covert ops and CIA involvement in foreign affairs. When I was down south during my days there, I had quite a few WTF-type moments. Between Noreiga and the Duartes and the Contras, we weren’t exactly playing with people that you could sell as pro-democracy/pro-freedom. We played with the hand we were dealt, and the opposing choices were far worse (imho).

I was told by an old hand who had been through Vietnam, and the days of the Shah, and had pretty much seen and done it all, that the biggest mistake you could make was to “give a shit about the indigs (indigenous people in the region)”. Pretty terrible sentiment, but an unfortunate fact given the circumstances.

[Allan from Fallbrook]

XBoxBoy: I don’t wholeheartedly support US covert ops without reservation. Pragmatically speaking, it sometimes comes down to a choice between us and them. As I have opined before, it is rarely a choice of good versus bad; often, it is between bad and worse.

Unfortunately, that has put us in bed with some poor choices as far as partners or allies go. As you say, such is life.

I know that we have often bungled when it comes to covert ops and CIA involvement in foreign affairs. When I was down south during my days there, I had quite a few WTF-type moments. Between Noreiga and the Duartes and the Contras, we weren’t exactly playing with people that you could sell as pro-democracy/pro-freedom. We played with the hand we were dealt, and the opposing choices were far worse (imho).

I was told by an old hand who had been through Vietnam, and the days of the Shah, and had pretty much seen and done it all, that the biggest mistake you could make was to “give a shit about the indigs (indigenous people in the region)”. Pretty terrible sentiment, but an unfortunate fact given the circumstances.

[Allan from Fallbrook]

XBoxBoy: I don’t wholeheartedly support US covert ops without reservation. Pragmatically speaking, it sometimes comes down to a choice between us and them. As I have opined before, it is rarely a choice of good versus bad; often, it is between bad and worse.

Unfortunately, that has put us in bed with some poor choices as far as partners or allies go. As you say, such is life.

I know that we have often bungled when it comes to covert ops and CIA involvement in foreign affairs. When I was down south during my days there, I had quite a few WTF-type moments. Between Noreiga and the Duartes and the Contras, we weren’t exactly playing with people that you could sell as pro-democracy/pro-freedom. We played with the hand we were dealt, and the opposing choices were far worse (imho).

I was told by an old hand who had been through Vietnam, and the days of the Shah, and had pretty much seen and done it all, that the biggest mistake you could make was to “give a shit about the indigs (indigenous people in the region)”. Pretty terrible sentiment, but an unfortunate fact given the circumstances.

[Allan from Fallbrook]

XBoxBoy: I don’t wholeheartedly support US covert ops without reservation. Pragmatically speaking, it sometimes comes down to a choice between us and them. As I have opined before, it is rarely a choice of good versus bad; often, it is between bad and worse.

Unfortunately, that has put us in bed with some poor choices as far as partners or allies go. As you say, such is life.

I know that we have often bungled when it comes to covert ops and CIA involvement in foreign affairs. When I was down south during my days there, I had quite a few WTF-type moments. Between Noreiga and the Duartes and the Contras, we weren’t exactly playing with people that you could sell as pro-democracy/pro-freedom. We played with the hand we were dealt, and the opposing choices were far worse (imho).

I was told by an old hand who had been through Vietnam, and the days of the Shah, and had pretty much seen and done it all, that the biggest mistake you could make was to “give a shit about the indigs (indigenous people in the region)”. Pretty terrible sentiment, but an unfortunate fact given the circumstances.

[Allan from Fallbrook]

XBoxBoy: I don’t wholeheartedly support US covert ops without reservation. Pragmatically speaking, it sometimes comes down to a choice between us and them. As I have opined before, it is rarely a choice of good versus bad; often, it is between bad and worse.

Unfortunately, that has put us in bed with some poor choices as far as partners or allies go. As you say, such is life.

I know that we have often bungled when it comes to covert ops and CIA involvement in foreign affairs. When I was down south during my days there, I had quite a few WTF-type moments. Between Noreiga and the Duartes and the Contras, we weren’t exactly playing with people that you could sell as pro-democracy/pro-freedom. We played with the hand we were dealt, and the opposing choices were far worse (imho).

I was told by an old hand who had been through Vietnam, and the days of the Shah, and had pretty much seen and done it all, that the biggest mistake you could make was to “give a shit about the indigs (indigenous people in the region)”. Pretty terrible sentiment, but an unfortunate fact given the circumstances.

[nostradamus]

Hi Allan,

Yes Guate is a quagmire of CIA and Mossad activity. I see the Galil is basically a modified AK.

I also spent time in Honduras and Salvador and every other central American country (only for about 6 months total). Maybe we should share stories over a nice bowl of ceviche and a few bottles of Gallo! 😉

Have you seen this new Israeli hardware which shoots around corners? I’m surprised nobody though of it sooner, it’s quite simple really. I’d hate to wake up seeing one of these poking thru the window.

[nostradamus]

Hi Allan,

Yes Guate is a quagmire of CIA and Mossad activity. I see the Galil is basically a modified AK.

I also spent time in Honduras and Salvador and every other central American country (only for about 6 months total). Maybe we should share stories over a nice bowl of ceviche and a few bottles of Gallo! 😉

Have you seen this new Israeli hardware which shoots around corners? I’m surprised nobody though of it sooner, it’s quite simple really. I’d hate to wake up seeing one of these poking thru the window.

[nostradamus]

Hi Allan,

Yes Guate is a quagmire of CIA and Mossad activity. I see the Galil is basically a modified AK.

I also spent time in Honduras and Salvador and every other central American country (only for about 6 months total). Maybe we should share stories over a nice bowl of ceviche and a few bottles of Gallo! 😉

Have you seen this new Israeli hardware which shoots around corners? I’m surprised nobody though of it sooner, it’s quite simple really. I’d hate to wake up seeing one of these poking thru the window.

[nostradamus]

Hi Allan,

Yes Guate is a quagmire of CIA and Mossad activity. I see the Galil is basically a modified AK.

I also spent time in Honduras and Salvador and every other central American country (only for about 6 months total). Maybe we should share stories over a nice bowl of ceviche and a few bottles of Gallo! 😉

Have you seen this new Israeli hardware which shoots around corners? I’m surprised nobody though of it sooner, it’s quite simple really. I’d hate to wake up seeing one of these poking thru the window.

[nostradamus]

Hi Allan,

Yes Guate is a quagmire of CIA and Mossad activity. I see the Galil is basically a modified AK.

I also spent time in Honduras and Salvador and every other central American country (only for about 6 months total). Maybe we should share stories over a nice bowl of ceviche and a few bottles of Gallo! 😉

Have you seen this new Israeli hardware which shoots around corners? I’m surprised nobody though of it sooner, it’s quite simple really. I’d hate to wake up seeing one of these poking thru the window.

[Allan from Fallbrook]

Nost: Actually the Germans did. The Germans being the other excellent weapons and hardware manufacturer (H&K, Steyr, Walther, etc). During WWII, they did quite a bit of research and actually developed a variant of the MP40 for this purpose.

I got to field test the Galil SAR. Excellent weapon, all the way around. I especially like the integrated bipod and oversized charging handle (which you can use from either side of the weapon, and with either hand). Built like a brick s**thouse, with a much better gas system than the AK, AKM or AKS models. The Finnish Valmet is another really nice AK variant.

[Allan from Fallbrook]

Nost: Actually the Germans did. The Germans being the other excellent weapons and hardware manufacturer (H&K, Steyr, Walther, etc). During WWII, they did quite a bit of research and actually developed a variant of the MP40 for this purpose.

I got to field test the Galil SAR. Excellent weapon, all the way around. I especially like the integrated bipod and oversized charging handle (which you can use from either side of the weapon, and with either hand). Built like a brick s**thouse, with a much better gas system than the AK, AKM or AKS models. The Finnish Valmet is another really nice AK variant.

[Allan from Fallbrook]

Nost: Actually the Germans did. The Germans being the other excellent weapons and hardware manufacturer (H&K, Steyr, Walther, etc). During WWII, they did quite a bit of research and actually developed a variant of the MP40 for this purpose.

I got to field test the Galil SAR. Excellent weapon, all the way around. I especially like the integrated bipod and oversized charging handle (which you can use from either side of the weapon, and with either hand). Built like a brick s**thouse, with a much better gas system than the AK, AKM or AKS models. The Finnish Valmet is another really nice AK variant.

[Allan from Fallbrook]

Nost: Actually the Germans did. The Germans being the other excellent weapons and hardware manufacturer (H&K, Steyr, Walther, etc). During WWII, they did quite a bit of research and actually developed a variant of the MP40 for this purpose.

I got to field test the Galil SAR. Excellent weapon, all the way around. I especially like the integrated bipod and oversized charging handle (which you can use from either side of the weapon, and with either hand). Built like a brick s**thouse, with a much better gas system than the AK, AKM or AKS models. The Finnish Valmet is another really nice AK variant.

[Author]

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