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weberlin.
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May 9, 2010 at 9:26 PM #549630May 9, 2010 at 9:59 PM #548672
Jim Jones
Participant[quote=briansd1]Just looking at the context of this story, I believe that it takes special parents to send out their kids decked out in flag drag just to prove a point.
That was really bright.[/quote]
Brian,
I was curious if you would like to respond to the larger series of questions I posed to you earlier? I was under the impression that you were one to enjoy a rigorous debate on this particular topic.
May 9, 2010 at 9:59 PM #548784Participant[quote=briansd1]Just looking at the context of this story, I believe that it takes special parents to send out their kids decked out in flag drag just to prove a point.
That was really bright.[/quote]
Brian,
I was curious if you would like to respond to the larger series of questions I posed to you earlier? I was under the impression that you were one to enjoy a rigorous debate on this particular topic.
May 9, 2010 at 9:59 PM #549268Participant[quote=briansd1]Just looking at the context of this story, I believe that it takes special parents to send out their kids decked out in flag drag just to prove a point.
That was really bright.[/quote]
Brian,
I was curious if you would like to respond to the larger series of questions I posed to you earlier? I was under the impression that you were one to enjoy a rigorous debate on this particular topic.
May 9, 2010 at 9:59 PM #549368Participant[quote=briansd1]Just looking at the context of this story, I believe that it takes special parents to send out their kids decked out in flag drag just to prove a point.
That was really bright.[/quote]
Brian,
I was curious if you would like to respond to the larger series of questions I posed to you earlier? I was under the impression that you were one to enjoy a rigorous debate on this particular topic.
May 9, 2010 at 9:59 PM #549646Participant[quote=briansd1]Just looking at the context of this story, I believe that it takes special parents to send out their kids decked out in flag drag just to prove a point.
That was really bright.[/quote]
Brian,
I was curious if you would like to respond to the larger series of questions I posed to you earlier? I was under the impression that you were one to enjoy a rigorous debate on this particular topic.
May 9, 2010 at 10:21 PM #548677scaredyclassic
Participantgreeting, people of America. i come to you in peace.
look, be reasonable. this isn’t about “pride in america”. the USA t-shirts are worn to communciate a message in this context somewhat different from “we love america”. they’re a communication of a range of messages intended by the USA kids (hereinafter the USA) and received by the hispanic kids (hereinafter the 5s).
those messages may of course may not be clearly transmitted nor clearly received, and it is unlikely that either side is very receptive to hearing what the other is saying.
Most likely, the USA are actually saying, screw you, this is america, cut out the mexico crap. or maybe not. give them the benefit of the doubt. say they’re communicating coincidentally to the 5s, hey you’re proud of mexico, we’re proud of america.
what are the 5s hearing? probably, “you dont think we’re really americans. you think our culture is crap. who knows. tempers flare.
in any event, conducting a dialogue with tshirt messages is likely to end badly.
did school admin make the right call? i don’t know. maybe.
it cerrtainly was a better call than taking down the BONG HITS FOR JESUS banner (remember that one; went to the US supreme ct), which didnt pose a threat to anyone.
at least here, maybe, arguably, the tshirts were intended to provoke a fight. just because a sign may have one meaning in one context doesn’t mean it always means the same everywhere.
and also keep in mind, contextually, the schools have been pushing a “multicultural’ curriculum for decades which might tip the scales in the favor of the 5s in terms of reasonable expectations of being free from tshirt provocation.
can even the US flag in itself be provocation under some circumstances? maybe. it sounds extreme, but i might make the call if i were the admin here that it is. maybe not. i don’t know. but it is not insane under some circs to do so…
i could be wrong about all this, but it’s my gut reaction. it’s a complex situation, beyond any one simple recitation the facts. it might be simpler if this were gay pride day for instance and a bunch of kids were wearing KILL THE FAGS. obviosuly the US flag is different from that sign, but what if the shirt is worn with the same intent.
like for instance, say there was an Iraqi mosque in southern california and the iraqi usa citizen locals were meeting peacably to mourn dead relatives int he iraqi war. say 1,000 non-iraqi local residents donned american t-shirts, circled the mosque and glared angrily while shouting pro-american chants at the iraqis as they tried to walk past the demonstrators to their vehicles.
would you still consider the display of the flag under those circs as merely a show of pride? in what ways are the school kids like the americans outside the mosque? in what way are they different? assume the USA pride people are demonstrating legally around the mosque, and are only shouting slogans that on their face sound liek they communicate great pride in the USA. are the iraqis likely to receive that message?
May 9, 2010 at 10:21 PM #548789Participantgreeting, people of America. i come to you in peace.
look, be reasonable. this isn’t about “pride in america”. the USA t-shirts are worn to communciate a message in this context somewhat different from “we love america”. they’re a communication of a range of messages intended by the USA kids (hereinafter the USA) and received by the hispanic kids (hereinafter the 5s).
those messages may of course may not be clearly transmitted nor clearly received, and it is unlikely that either side is very receptive to hearing what the other is saying.
Most likely, the USA are actually saying, screw you, this is america, cut out the mexico crap. or maybe not. give them the benefit of the doubt. say they’re communicating coincidentally to the 5s, hey you’re proud of mexico, we’re proud of america.
what are the 5s hearing? probably, “you dont think we’re really americans. you think our culture is crap. who knows. tempers flare.
in any event, conducting a dialogue with tshirt messages is likely to end badly.
did school admin make the right call? i don’t know. maybe.
it cerrtainly was a better call than taking down the BONG HITS FOR JESUS banner (remember that one; went to the US supreme ct), which didnt pose a threat to anyone.
at least here, maybe, arguably, the tshirts were intended to provoke a fight. just because a sign may have one meaning in one context doesn’t mean it always means the same everywhere.
and also keep in mind, contextually, the schools have been pushing a “multicultural’ curriculum for decades which might tip the scales in the favor of the 5s in terms of reasonable expectations of being free from tshirt provocation.
can even the US flag in itself be provocation under some circumstances? maybe. it sounds extreme, but i might make the call if i were the admin here that it is. maybe not. i don’t know. but it is not insane under some circs to do so…
i could be wrong about all this, but it’s my gut reaction. it’s a complex situation, beyond any one simple recitation the facts. it might be simpler if this were gay pride day for instance and a bunch of kids were wearing KILL THE FAGS. obviosuly the US flag is different from that sign, but what if the shirt is worn with the same intent.
like for instance, say there was an Iraqi mosque in southern california and the iraqi usa citizen locals were meeting peacably to mourn dead relatives int he iraqi war. say 1,000 non-iraqi local residents donned american t-shirts, circled the mosque and glared angrily while shouting pro-american chants at the iraqis as they tried to walk past the demonstrators to their vehicles.
would you still consider the display of the flag under those circs as merely a show of pride? in what ways are the school kids like the americans outside the mosque? in what way are they different? assume the USA pride people are demonstrating legally around the mosque, and are only shouting slogans that on their face sound liek they communicate great pride in the USA. are the iraqis likely to receive that message?
May 9, 2010 at 10:21 PM #549273Participantgreeting, people of America. i come to you in peace.
look, be reasonable. this isn’t about “pride in america”. the USA t-shirts are worn to communciate a message in this context somewhat different from “we love america”. they’re a communication of a range of messages intended by the USA kids (hereinafter the USA) and received by the hispanic kids (hereinafter the 5s).
those messages may of course may not be clearly transmitted nor clearly received, and it is unlikely that either side is very receptive to hearing what the other is saying.
Most likely, the USA are actually saying, screw you, this is america, cut out the mexico crap. or maybe not. give them the benefit of the doubt. say they’re communicating coincidentally to the 5s, hey you’re proud of mexico, we’re proud of america.
what are the 5s hearing? probably, “you dont think we’re really americans. you think our culture is crap. who knows. tempers flare.
in any event, conducting a dialogue with tshirt messages is likely to end badly.
did school admin make the right call? i don’t know. maybe.
it cerrtainly was a better call than taking down the BONG HITS FOR JESUS banner (remember that one; went to the US supreme ct), which didnt pose a threat to anyone.
at least here, maybe, arguably, the tshirts were intended to provoke a fight. just because a sign may have one meaning in one context doesn’t mean it always means the same everywhere.
and also keep in mind, contextually, the schools have been pushing a “multicultural’ curriculum for decades which might tip the scales in the favor of the 5s in terms of reasonable expectations of being free from tshirt provocation.
can even the US flag in itself be provocation under some circumstances? maybe. it sounds extreme, but i might make the call if i were the admin here that it is. maybe not. i don’t know. but it is not insane under some circs to do so…
i could be wrong about all this, but it’s my gut reaction. it’s a complex situation, beyond any one simple recitation the facts. it might be simpler if this were gay pride day for instance and a bunch of kids were wearing KILL THE FAGS. obviosuly the US flag is different from that sign, but what if the shirt is worn with the same intent.
like for instance, say there was an Iraqi mosque in southern california and the iraqi usa citizen locals were meeting peacably to mourn dead relatives int he iraqi war. say 1,000 non-iraqi local residents donned american t-shirts, circled the mosque and glared angrily while shouting pro-american chants at the iraqis as they tried to walk past the demonstrators to their vehicles.
would you still consider the display of the flag under those circs as merely a show of pride? in what ways are the school kids like the americans outside the mosque? in what way are they different? assume the USA pride people are demonstrating legally around the mosque, and are only shouting slogans that on their face sound liek they communicate great pride in the USA. are the iraqis likely to receive that message?
May 9, 2010 at 10:21 PM #549373Participantgreeting, people of America. i come to you in peace.
look, be reasonable. this isn’t about “pride in america”. the USA t-shirts are worn to communciate a message in this context somewhat different from “we love america”. they’re a communication of a range of messages intended by the USA kids (hereinafter the USA) and received by the hispanic kids (hereinafter the 5s).
those messages may of course may not be clearly transmitted nor clearly received, and it is unlikely that either side is very receptive to hearing what the other is saying.
Most likely, the USA are actually saying, screw you, this is america, cut out the mexico crap. or maybe not. give them the benefit of the doubt. say they’re communicating coincidentally to the 5s, hey you’re proud of mexico, we’re proud of america.
what are the 5s hearing? probably, “you dont think we’re really americans. you think our culture is crap. who knows. tempers flare.
in any event, conducting a dialogue with tshirt messages is likely to end badly.
did school admin make the right call? i don’t know. maybe.
it cerrtainly was a better call than taking down the BONG HITS FOR JESUS banner (remember that one; went to the US supreme ct), which didnt pose a threat to anyone.
at least here, maybe, arguably, the tshirts were intended to provoke a fight. just because a sign may have one meaning in one context doesn’t mean it always means the same everywhere.
and also keep in mind, contextually, the schools have been pushing a “multicultural’ curriculum for decades which might tip the scales in the favor of the 5s in terms of reasonable expectations of being free from tshirt provocation.
can even the US flag in itself be provocation under some circumstances? maybe. it sounds extreme, but i might make the call if i were the admin here that it is. maybe not. i don’t know. but it is not insane under some circs to do so…
i could be wrong about all this, but it’s my gut reaction. it’s a complex situation, beyond any one simple recitation the facts. it might be simpler if this were gay pride day for instance and a bunch of kids were wearing KILL THE FAGS. obviosuly the US flag is different from that sign, but what if the shirt is worn with the same intent.
like for instance, say there was an Iraqi mosque in southern california and the iraqi usa citizen locals were meeting peacably to mourn dead relatives int he iraqi war. say 1,000 non-iraqi local residents donned american t-shirts, circled the mosque and glared angrily while shouting pro-american chants at the iraqis as they tried to walk past the demonstrators to their vehicles.
would you still consider the display of the flag under those circs as merely a show of pride? in what ways are the school kids like the americans outside the mosque? in what way are they different? assume the USA pride people are demonstrating legally around the mosque, and are only shouting slogans that on their face sound liek they communicate great pride in the USA. are the iraqis likely to receive that message?
May 9, 2010 at 10:21 PM #549651Participantgreeting, people of America. i come to you in peace.
look, be reasonable. this isn’t about “pride in america”. the USA t-shirts are worn to communciate a message in this context somewhat different from “we love america”. they’re a communication of a range of messages intended by the USA kids (hereinafter the USA) and received by the hispanic kids (hereinafter the 5s).
those messages may of course may not be clearly transmitted nor clearly received, and it is unlikely that either side is very receptive to hearing what the other is saying.
Most likely, the USA are actually saying, screw you, this is america, cut out the mexico crap. or maybe not. give them the benefit of the doubt. say they’re communicating coincidentally to the 5s, hey you’re proud of mexico, we’re proud of america.
what are the 5s hearing? probably, “you dont think we’re really americans. you think our culture is crap. who knows. tempers flare.
in any event, conducting a dialogue with tshirt messages is likely to end badly.
did school admin make the right call? i don’t know. maybe.
it cerrtainly was a better call than taking down the BONG HITS FOR JESUS banner (remember that one; went to the US supreme ct), which didnt pose a threat to anyone.
at least here, maybe, arguably, the tshirts were intended to provoke a fight. just because a sign may have one meaning in one context doesn’t mean it always means the same everywhere.
and also keep in mind, contextually, the schools have been pushing a “multicultural’ curriculum for decades which might tip the scales in the favor of the 5s in terms of reasonable expectations of being free from tshirt provocation.
can even the US flag in itself be provocation under some circumstances? maybe. it sounds extreme, but i might make the call if i were the admin here that it is. maybe not. i don’t know. but it is not insane under some circs to do so…
i could be wrong about all this, but it’s my gut reaction. it’s a complex situation, beyond any one simple recitation the facts. it might be simpler if this were gay pride day for instance and a bunch of kids were wearing KILL THE FAGS. obviosuly the US flag is different from that sign, but what if the shirt is worn with the same intent.
like for instance, say there was an Iraqi mosque in southern california and the iraqi usa citizen locals were meeting peacably to mourn dead relatives int he iraqi war. say 1,000 non-iraqi local residents donned american t-shirts, circled the mosque and glared angrily while shouting pro-american chants at the iraqis as they tried to walk past the demonstrators to their vehicles.
would you still consider the display of the flag under those circs as merely a show of pride? in what ways are the school kids like the americans outside the mosque? in what way are they different? assume the USA pride people are demonstrating legally around the mosque, and are only shouting slogans that on their face sound liek they communicate great pride in the USA. are the iraqis likely to receive that message?
May 9, 2010 at 10:33 PM #548687mike92104
ParticipantI think the kids did it to rebel against the dress code. I don’t think it really had any thing to do with the “5’s”
The real point of this is that the school should have just treated the day like any other school day, and should not have decided to impose a dress code that infringed on the kids rights to wear patriotic colors. The way to show support or inclusion for the 5’s would have been a lesson or two on the history of May 5th. This reeks of BS far left liberal PC run amuck, and now it has bitten them in the ass.
May 9, 2010 at 10:33 PM #548799ParticipantI think the kids did it to rebel against the dress code. I don’t think it really had any thing to do with the “5’s”
The real point of this is that the school should have just treated the day like any other school day, and should not have decided to impose a dress code that infringed on the kids rights to wear patriotic colors. The way to show support or inclusion for the 5’s would have been a lesson or two on the history of May 5th. This reeks of BS far left liberal PC run amuck, and now it has bitten them in the ass.
May 9, 2010 at 10:33 PM #549284ParticipantI think the kids did it to rebel against the dress code. I don’t think it really had any thing to do with the “5’s”
The real point of this is that the school should have just treated the day like any other school day, and should not have decided to impose a dress code that infringed on the kids rights to wear patriotic colors. The way to show support or inclusion for the 5’s would have been a lesson or two on the history of May 5th. This reeks of BS far left liberal PC run amuck, and now it has bitten them in the ass.
May 9, 2010 at 10:33 PM #549383ParticipantI think the kids did it to rebel against the dress code. I don’t think it really had any thing to do with the “5’s”
The real point of this is that the school should have just treated the day like any other school day, and should not have decided to impose a dress code that infringed on the kids rights to wear patriotic colors. The way to show support or inclusion for the 5’s would have been a lesson or two on the history of May 5th. This reeks of BS far left liberal PC run amuck, and now it has bitten them in the ass.
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