Am I a racist?

[Arraya]

[quote=njtosd][quote=Arraya][quote=njtosd]

Whether they were valid, whether you agree, whether they are debatable are all questions that would be worth raising. Instead you chose to head off on what you thought was a humorous rant against a rather obscure group of people, complete with sweeping, unsupported and insulting generalizations (and misspellings).[/quote]

I supported it with two books. Statistics are not as easy to come by. You have to dig a little deeper and connect a few dots. [/quote]

You don’t really have to dig a lot deeper than Wikipedia, which identifies a lot more information about the American Scotch Irish population than you did. For example, they founded Princeton University (I guess that was before they discovered the joys of debauchery). Hmm, but wait, it also shows data identifying 12 U.S. Presidents as being of Scotch-Irish heritage, not to mention John Wayne, George Patton, Elvis Presley and John McCain. The map included in the Wikipedia listing doesn’t show the origin of its data, but it depicts a rather large population of people of Scotch Irish background in the northern plains and pacific northwest, which may even be larger than the population in the east. Your choice not to look a little closer into this issue suggests to me that you prefer your rather one sided view of things, which makes you rather a “culturalist” I would say.[/quote]

So your glancing at Wikipedia proves I don’t know what I am talking about.

Is it that fact that we have a growing white underclass since WWII(accelerating after the mid 70s, then put into hyper-drive in the past decade) or the fact that I said they were primarily scots-Irish that you find offensive? Or that I compared them to the black underclass?

[njtosd]

[quote=Arraya]

So your glancing at Wikipedia proves I don’t know what I am talking about.

Is it that fact that we have a growing white underclass since WWII(accelerating after the mid 70s, then put into hyper-drive in the past decade) or the fact that I said they were primarily scots-Irish that you find offensive? Or that I compared them to the black underclass?[/quote]

Your knowledge seems to come from a book called Rainbow Pie Redneck (reviewed by a total of 9 people on Amazon) that comes from the same author who wrote “Deer Hunting with Jesus: Dispatches from America’s Class War.” I agree that Wikipedia is not a fantastic source, but from what you’ve written, I don’t think your knowledge is particularly comprehensive.

And what i object to is, frankly, is that you seem so confident of yourself that you don’t even consider that you might be wrong, or that you might be guilty of what you criticize others for. Not just in this post, but many.

[njtosd]

[quote=Arraya]

So your glancing at Wikipedia proves I don’t know what I am talking about.

Is it that fact that we have a growing white underclass since WWII(accelerating after the mid 70s, then put into hyper-drive in the past decade) or the fact that I said they were primarily scots-Irish that you find offensive? Or that I compared them to the black underclass?[/quote]

Your knowledge seems to come from a book called Rainbow Pie Redneck (reviewed by a total of 9 people on Amazon) that comes from the same author who wrote “Deer Hunting with Jesus: Dispatches from America’s Class War.” I agree that Wikipedia is not a fantastic source, but from what you’ve written, I don’t think your knowledge is particularly comprehensive.

And what i object to is, frankly, is that you seem so confident of yourself that you don’t even consider that you might be wrong, or that you might be guilty of what you criticize others for. Not just in this post, but many.

[njtosd]

[quote=Arraya]

So your glancing at Wikipedia proves I don’t know what I am talking about.

Is it that fact that we have a growing white underclass since WWII(accelerating after the mid 70s, then put into hyper-drive in the past decade) or the fact that I said they were primarily scots-Irish that you find offensive? Or that I compared them to the black underclass?[/quote]

Your knowledge seems to come from a book called Rainbow Pie Redneck (reviewed by a total of 9 people on Amazon) that comes from the same author who wrote “Deer Hunting with Jesus: Dispatches from America’s Class War.” I agree that Wikipedia is not a fantastic source, but from what you’ve written, I don’t think your knowledge is particularly comprehensive.

And what i object to is, frankly, is that you seem so confident of yourself that you don’t even consider that you might be wrong, or that you might be guilty of what you criticize others for. Not just in this post, but many.

[njtosd]

[quote=Arraya]

So your glancing at Wikipedia proves I don’t know what I am talking about.

Is it that fact that we have a growing white underclass since WWII(accelerating after the mid 70s, then put into hyper-drive in the past decade) or the fact that I said they were primarily scots-Irish that you find offensive? Or that I compared them to the black underclass?[/quote]

Your knowledge seems to come from a book called Rainbow Pie Redneck (reviewed by a total of 9 people on Amazon) that comes from the same author who wrote “Deer Hunting with Jesus: Dispatches from America’s Class War.” I agree that Wikipedia is not a fantastic source, but from what you’ve written, I don’t think your knowledge is particularly comprehensive.

And what i object to is, frankly, is that you seem so confident of yourself that you don’t even consider that you might be wrong, or that you might be guilty of what you criticize others for. Not just in this post, but many.

[njtosd]

[quote=Arraya]

So your glancing at Wikipedia proves I don’t know what I am talking about.

Is it that fact that we have a growing white underclass since WWII(accelerating after the mid 70s, then put into hyper-drive in the past decade) or the fact that I said they were primarily scots-Irish that you find offensive? Or that I compared them to the black underclass?[/quote]

Your knowledge seems to come from a book called Rainbow Pie Redneck (reviewed by a total of 9 people on Amazon) that comes from the same author who wrote “Deer Hunting with Jesus: Dispatches from America’s Class War.” I agree that Wikipedia is not a fantastic source, but from what you’ve written, I don’t think your knowledge is particularly comprehensive.

And what i object to is, frankly, is that you seem so confident of yourself that you don’t even consider that you might be wrong, or that you might be guilty of what you criticize others for. Not just in this post, but many.

[briansd1]

[quote=Arraya] As I said in a later post, it is about class – not race. Though certain sub-cultures display similar decay. So, I think it is an apt analogy and worthy of closer analysis.
[/quote]

This topic is quite interesting, especially in light of the unveiling of the MLK Memorial in DC.

Race and class are intertwined.

You can pluck a White child from the under-class and make him into a gentleman.

You can also adopt a Black Haitian child and make him into a gentleman just the same. But in a White dominated establishment, that Black gentleman’s legitimacy will always be questioned.

The world is changing and eventually, we’ll all be brown. But that will take many hundred more years.

[briansd1]

[quote=Arraya] As I said in a later post, it is about class – not race. Though certain sub-cultures display similar decay. So, I think it is an apt analogy and worthy of closer analysis.
[/quote]

This topic is quite interesting, especially in light of the unveiling of the MLK Memorial in DC.

Race and class are intertwined.

You can pluck a White child from the under-class and make him into a gentleman.

You can also adopt a Black Haitian child and make him into a gentleman just the same. But in a White dominated establishment, that Black gentleman’s legitimacy will always be questioned.

The world is changing and eventually, we’ll all be brown. But that will take many hundred more years.

[briansd1]

[quote=Arraya] As I said in a later post, it is about class – not race. Though certain sub-cultures display similar decay. So, I think it is an apt analogy and worthy of closer analysis.
[/quote]

This topic is quite interesting, especially in light of the unveiling of the MLK Memorial in DC.

Race and class are intertwined.

You can pluck a White child from the under-class and make him into a gentleman.

You can also adopt a Black Haitian child and make him into a gentleman just the same. But in a White dominated establishment, that Black gentleman’s legitimacy will always be questioned.

The world is changing and eventually, we’ll all be brown. But that will take many hundred more years.

[briansd1]

[quote=Arraya] As I said in a later post, it is about class – not race. Though certain sub-cultures display similar decay. So, I think it is an apt analogy and worthy of closer analysis.
[/quote]

This topic is quite interesting, especially in light of the unveiling of the MLK Memorial in DC.

Race and class are intertwined.

You can pluck a White child from the under-class and make him into a gentleman.

You can also adopt a Black Haitian child and make him into a gentleman just the same. But in a White dominated establishment, that Black gentleman’s legitimacy will always be questioned.

The world is changing and eventually, we’ll all be brown. But that will take many hundred more years.

[briansd1]

[quote=Arraya] As I said in a later post, it is about class – not race. Though certain sub-cultures display similar decay. So, I think it is an apt analogy and worthy of closer analysis.
[/quote]

This topic is quite interesting, especially in light of the unveiling of the MLK Memorial in DC.

Race and class are intertwined.

You can pluck a White child from the under-class and make him into a gentleman.

You can also adopt a Black Haitian child and make him into a gentleman just the same. But in a White dominated establishment, that Black gentleman’s legitimacy will always be questioned.

The world is changing and eventually, we’ll all be brown. But that will take many hundred more years.

[urbanrealtor]

[quote=CA renter]BTW, I fully understand what discrimination is all about. My step-grandfather died in a Nazi jail because he ran the printing press for the underground in Vienna. They also hid Jews in their apartment, and helped transport them over the Swiss border. My Jewish grandfather had already died of TB, which was fortunate, because my mother took her (non-Jewish) step-father’s last name, which probably saved her life.

Still, she was put in a Nazi “re-education” camp for children of uncooperative parents, and was released after a few months only because she tested positive for TB (another blessing in disguise).

Yes, I understand what discrimination means, which is why I think we need to address the causes and start doing something useful to eliminate it or, at the very least, reduce it as much as possible.[/quote]

Demeaning your grandparents and trading on their names does not really change anything.
Kind of makes me sad that the memory of victims of abuse are being misused to save face but that’s not really the point.
The point here is that you are claiming that purely racial considerations are supported by stats and therefore make sense.
To summarize:
People aren’t evil. They just know that black people are more likely to be violent offenders.

I am not sure what is funnier here.
That you are consistently in favor of racial discrimination or that you seek to justify it as if you were the author of Blink.

Life is not a Malcolm Gladwell book.
That is the reason that the “1 in 33 black men” is not considered an acceptable reason to deny business to a patron.

You can talk all day about how its justified but that does not change the reality:

denying business to a someone (like not renting them a room or not selling them coffee) based on race IS DISCRIMINATORY.
BY ITS VERY DEFINITION.
THIS IS TRUE WHETHER OR NOT IT HAS THE BENEFIT OF A LEGAL EXEMPTION.

I personally consider racial discrimination to be immoral and to defend it as being something else is dishonest (or “fraudulent” since you seem to like (mis-)using that word so much).

Having family in the Holocaust does not make you more sensitive.

It just makes you hypocritical.

And denying business based on race is racist.

That’s why we call it that.

[urbanrealtor]

[quote=CA renter]BTW, I fully understand what discrimination is all about. My step-grandfather died in a Nazi jail because he ran the printing press for the underground in Vienna. They also hid Jews in their apartment, and helped transport them over the Swiss border. My Jewish grandfather had already died of TB, which was fortunate, because my mother took her (non-Jewish) step-father’s last name, which probably saved her life.

Still, she was put in a Nazi “re-education” camp for children of uncooperative parents, and was released after a few months only because she tested positive for TB (another blessing in disguise).

Yes, I understand what discrimination means, which is why I think we need to address the causes and start doing something useful to eliminate it or, at the very least, reduce it as much as possible.[/quote]

Demeaning your grandparents and trading on their names does not really change anything.
Kind of makes me sad that the memory of victims of abuse are being misused to save face but that’s not really the point.
The point here is that you are claiming that purely racial considerations are supported by stats and therefore make sense.
To summarize:
People aren’t evil. They just know that black people are more likely to be violent offenders.

I am not sure what is funnier here.
That you are consistently in favor of racial discrimination or that you seek to justify it as if you were the author of Blink.

Life is not a Malcolm Gladwell book.
That is the reason that the “1 in 33 black men” is not considered an acceptable reason to deny business to a patron.

You can talk all day about how its justified but that does not change the reality:

denying business to a someone (like not renting them a room or not selling them coffee) based on race IS DISCRIMINATORY.
BY ITS VERY DEFINITION.
THIS IS TRUE WHETHER OR NOT IT HAS THE BENEFIT OF A LEGAL EXEMPTION.

I personally consider racial discrimination to be immoral and to defend it as being something else is dishonest (or “fraudulent” since you seem to like (mis-)using that word so much).

Having family in the Holocaust does not make you more sensitive.

It just makes you hypocritical.

And denying business based on race is racist.

That’s why we call it that.

[urbanrealtor]

[quote=CA renter]BTW, I fully understand what discrimination is all about. My step-grandfather died in a Nazi jail because he ran the printing press for the underground in Vienna. They also hid Jews in their apartment, and helped transport them over the Swiss border. My Jewish grandfather had already died of TB, which was fortunate, because my mother took her (non-Jewish) step-father’s last name, which probably saved her life.

Still, she was put in a Nazi “re-education” camp for children of uncooperative parents, and was released after a few months only because she tested positive for TB (another blessing in disguise).

Yes, I understand what discrimination means, which is why I think we need to address the causes and start doing something useful to eliminate it or, at the very least, reduce it as much as possible.[/quote]

Demeaning your grandparents and trading on their names does not really change anything.
Kind of makes me sad that the memory of victims of abuse are being misused to save face but that’s not really the point.
The point here is that you are claiming that purely racial considerations are supported by stats and therefore make sense.
To summarize:
People aren’t evil. They just know that black people are more likely to be violent offenders.

I am not sure what is funnier here.
That you are consistently in favor of racial discrimination or that you seek to justify it as if you were the author of Blink.

Life is not a Malcolm Gladwell book.
That is the reason that the “1 in 33 black men” is not considered an acceptable reason to deny business to a patron.

You can talk all day about how its justified but that does not change the reality:

denying business to a someone (like not renting them a room or not selling them coffee) based on race IS DISCRIMINATORY.
BY ITS VERY DEFINITION.
THIS IS TRUE WHETHER OR NOT IT HAS THE BENEFIT OF A LEGAL EXEMPTION.

I personally consider racial discrimination to be immoral and to defend it as being something else is dishonest (or “fraudulent” since you seem to like (mis-)using that word so much).

Having family in the Holocaust does not make you more sensitive.

It just makes you hypocritical.

And denying business based on race is racist.

That’s why we call it that.

[urbanrealtor]

[quote=CA renter]BTW, I fully understand what discrimination is all about. My step-grandfather died in a Nazi jail because he ran the printing press for the underground in Vienna. They also hid Jews in their apartment, and helped transport them over the Swiss border. My Jewish grandfather had already died of TB, which was fortunate, because my mother took her (non-Jewish) step-father’s last name, which probably saved her life.

Still, she was put in a Nazi “re-education” camp for children of uncooperative parents, and was released after a few months only because she tested positive for TB (another blessing in disguise).

Yes, I understand what discrimination means, which is why I think we need to address the causes and start doing something useful to eliminate it or, at the very least, reduce it as much as possible.[/quote]

Demeaning your grandparents and trading on their names does not really change anything.
Kind of makes me sad that the memory of victims of abuse are being misused to save face but that’s not really the point.
The point here is that you are claiming that purely racial considerations are supported by stats and therefore make sense.
To summarize:
People aren’t evil. They just know that black people are more likely to be violent offenders.

I am not sure what is funnier here.
That you are consistently in favor of racial discrimination or that you seek to justify it as if you were the author of Blink.

Life is not a Malcolm Gladwell book.
That is the reason that the “1 in 33 black men” is not considered an acceptable reason to deny business to a patron.

You can talk all day about how its justified but that does not change the reality:

denying business to a someone (like not renting them a room or not selling them coffee) based on race IS DISCRIMINATORY.
BY ITS VERY DEFINITION.
THIS IS TRUE WHETHER OR NOT IT HAS THE BENEFIT OF A LEGAL EXEMPTION.

I personally consider racial discrimination to be immoral and to defend it as being something else is dishonest (or “fraudulent” since you seem to like (mis-)using that word so much).

Having family in the Holocaust does not make you more sensitive.

It just makes you hypocritical.

And denying business based on race is racist.

That’s why we call it that.

[Author]

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