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as some say, it is better to be judged by 12 than carried by 6, so shoot first and ask questions later.

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[quote=ucodegen][quote=squat300]Ever hear the Johnny cash anti gun song in which a mother teaches her child not to play with guns but then he shoots a man in Reno just to watch him die?

Folsom prison blues. I wonder if the guy he shot was armed?[/quote]Probably not, otherwise there might have been a line in the song mentioning that the guy tried to draw his gun in defense but was too slow…

BTW: Folsom Prison Blues is not an anti-gun song. It is a song about taking responsibility for ones actions.

Cash recounted how he came up with the line “I shot a man in Reno, just to watch him die”: “I sat with my pen in my hand, trying to think up the worst reason a person could have for killing another person, and that’s what came to mind.”

The more complete quote for that song is:

When I was just a baby,
My Mama told me, “Son,
Always be a good boy,
Don’t ever play with guns,”
But I shot a man in Reno,
Just to watch him die,
When I hear that whistle blowin’,
I hang my head and cry.

[/quote]

id just been listening to the song in my car, so the lyrics were pretty fresh. i ehard it as a song about a kid who knew guns were bad news but who did an impetuous act he might nototherwise have done simply because he had the opportunity and basically killed himself and all his dreams at the same time.

i dont hear anything about eprsonal responsibility int he song, like he turned himself in or anything. it sounds like the gun was the cause of his misery the way i read the lyrics. the way his mama told him not to play with guns, but he went to Reno, a sort of risky town, and was i figure probably drinking and gambling,a dn the next thing you know, he killed a man, where if it had been other circumstances, might merely have been arelatively friendly fistfight.

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I was able to run away from the one potentially violent encounter in my life.

Family acquaintance was recently brutally attacked by thugs. Attack only ended when his wife used car as a weapon to come to his defense. Had he been armed, same result. If she were armed same result, probably easier though.

Street violence is unpredictable by nature.

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Ever hear the Johnny cash anti gun song in which a mother teaches her child not to play with guns but then he shoots a man in Reno just to watch him die?

Folsom prison blues. I wonder if the guy he shot was armed?

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I fear that in drawing the venn diiagrams of the set of lunatics with guns and the set of pro 2nd amendmenters, there may be some significant overlap.

Still it would be pretty cool to head up this organizations.

No one believed prohibition would ever repealed. Popular wisdom was it would never ever happen. A wealthy female socialite led the charge out of sheer conviction.

I truly believe we would all be better off if we were not collectively heavily armed. It’s not based on fact or reason but strictly feelings.

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[quote=CA renter][quote=squat300]I really don’t think a gun is useful for true self defense. Have you checked out target focus training? They are true survival teachers. In real life you won’t have time to get out your gun when confronted with violence … What will ensure your survival is your will to meet violence with extreme violence with whatever is at hand even if it comes down to grabbing the dudes face and biting off his nose while he’s stabbing you By the time you draw the fights probably over if the dude intends you harm.

Gun ownership for personal defense in general is weak. Real defense involves permanently disabling the other person with hands feet teeth and the objects around you.

This is why it is a bad idea to ever fight with anyone no matter how small or weak. If you are ready to fight to the death you will have a better chance of winning than if you have a gun in a leg holster. Taking out an eyeball with a thimb for defense is a better skill than going to a shooting range.

I don’t have the stomach for posers with guns who think they are tough. Give me a quiet street fighter who will bite your face off any day.[/quote]

“So, how often do Americans use firearms for self-defense?

Criminologist Gary Kleck estimates that 2.5 million Americans use guns to defend themselves each year. Out of that number, 400,000 believe that but for their firearms, they would have been dead.

Professor Emeritus James Q. Wilson, the UCLA public policy expert, says: “We know from Census Bureau surveys that something beyond 100,000 uses of guns for self-defense occur every year. We know from smaller surveys of a commercial nature that the number may be as high as 2 1/2 or 3 million. We don’t know what the right number is, but whatever the right number is, it’s not a trivial number.”

Former Manhattan Assistant District Attorney David P. Koppel studied gun control for the Cato Institute. Citing a 1979-1985 study by the National Crime Victimization Survey, Koppel found: “When a robbery victim does not defend himself, the robber succeeds 88 percent of the time, and the victim is injured 25 percent of the time. When a victim resists with a gun, the robbery success rate falls to 30 percent, and the victim injury rate falls to 17 percent. No other response to a robbery – from drawing a knife to shouting for help to fleeing – produces such low rates of victim injury and robbery success.”

When asked if additional gun laws would be beneficial or have no effect, most Americans, like Ice-T, get it. They oppose shifting power to the criminal. And they don’t need the National Rifle Association to tell them: The only people willing to abide by additional gun laws are the law-abiding.”

http://www.ocregister.com/articles/gun-366250-guns-ice.html

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Scaredy,

I agree with you about the victim being willing and able to commit extreme violent acts in self defense, but what about a woman who’s 5’2″ vs. a man (or two) over 6′ and 200+ pounds?

Have you ever been the victim of a violent attack or a stalker? There is only ONE thing you will want at that moment: a gun (yours, or one belonging to a capable armed guard or cop).[/quote]

Reading the very brief criticism of Kleck on Wikipedia, I’m persuaded his numbers are inflated probably grossly.

At a moment of real danger unless you have the gun close at hand it’s probably too late. A small bobcat would easily subdue a 6′ brute. A small woman could easily too.

We need to stop thinking like vaguely civilized humans and start thinking about ripping out flesh and spitting it back in the attackers face.

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So when the revolution comes.

The local cops who live down the street are going to be our enemies. And we are going to kill them with our guns? And the federal troops. Who are on 4 year rotations. We’re going to kill them?

And all this is going to clear away corruption and America will be better after?

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I really don’t think a gun is useful for true self defense. Have you checked out target focus training? They are true survival teachers. In real life you won’t have time to get out your gun when confronted with violence … What will ensure your survival is your will to meet violence with extreme violence with whatever is at hand even if it comes down to grabbing the dudes face and biting off his nose while he’s stabbing you By the time you draw the fights probably over if the dude intends you harm.

Gun ownership for personal defense in general is weak. Real defense involves permanently disabling the other person with hands feet teeth and the objects around you.

This is why it is a bad idea to ever fight with anyone no matter how small or weak. If you are ready to fight to the death you will have a better chance of winning than if you have a gun in a leg holster. Taking out an eyeball with a thimb for defense is a better skill than going to a shooting range.

I don’t have the stomach for posers with guns who think they are tough. Give me a quiet street fighter who will bite your face off any day.

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When I google repeal 2nd amendment I see lots of chatter but no big movement to donate money to.

What should I call it?

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Perhaps the problem is there is no anti gun group to promote a 2nd amendment repeal.

Perhaps a triggering event could make that happen.

Perhaps a dictatorship will ensue.

But if I were betting money we’d just see the same sad democracy we have now but with a lot less gun deaths.

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Ad hominem attack … very effective.

Whenever we allow our children to go over to a friends house do we interview the parents to ensure any guns are present and if so are they secured properly? Shouldn’t we?

I try. Always have always will. I assume nothing about guns and the lunkheads who own them. Not that all gun owners are lunkheads. But a chunk of them are. This is an example of a non ad hominem attack since it supports my vigiliancexabout protecting my kids from an actual likely danger.

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Then I suppose the 30000 or so people shot this year including the new town kids are actually heroes whose deaths are worthwhile and in furtherance of the cause of liberty.

Every time someone is shot with a gun we should just think yes, this is the price we pay to be free.

….

Doesn’t feel right to me.

Maybe the NRA could issue the parents of the dead kids posthumous medals for their sacrifice for our freedoms.

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QUESTION:

to all the people who argue we need guns to protect againsta tyrannical govt.

Don’t the arguments that crazy nutjob killers don’t need guns to kill, and they would kill with other forms of mass death (ricin, fertilizer explosives) equally apply to citizens rising up against the govt?

that is, wont rebelling citizens be just as effective at slaughtering the govt tyrannists with various non-gun weaponry?

if guns didn’t exist, gun enthusiast seem to beli,eve that we won’t be any safer, as killers will turn to equally effective means…and if that were true, then taking away guns shouldn’t affect the ability of the citizenry to revolt.

right?

or are guns absoltuely necessary for the people to overthrow the govt.

the armed masses revolting against the govt frankly sounds kind of unlikely to me.

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I’m trying to close a refi at 3.375. Problems. Final hurdle seems to be a last minute demand I put a sink in downstairs bathroom. Triggered potential marital discord. Ended up going to home depot late last night and buying a sink and vanity for $49.99 and faucet for $11.58. Now I have running water but having trouble lining up the p trap for draining.

Will they check if I just leave a bucket down there?

Understanding is wife can chuck this sink at will.

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Animal spirits drive everything we do.

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