[NotCranky]

[quote=CA renter][quote=Blogstar][quote=scaredyclassic]Wait a minute… In ca r’s defense, women put higher levels of energy into the c task. My wife spends a weekend alone at home with the kids and she us wiped out. Me, not even fatigued. Why? I’m kind of lame. It’s more like a frat house. I don’t know. I expend less mental and phys. Energies. By our nature’s the role is going to such more out of SAM than SAHD.

I suspect it has to do with the ache to be with them…[/quote]

You are over generalizing. Not that there isn’t some truth to it. …but there are plenty of things that my wife does half measures or not at all and I do with a lot more diligence an depth….just different things. I would think that’s pretty typical…Anyway, someone had to bring some balance to the thing.[/quote]

Of course, everyone is different, but scaredy’s right about this one. In my case, I spend *at least* 3-4 hours cleaning per day, which includes kitchen, dishes, bathrooms, vacuuming/mopping (which I tend to do daily, if not multiple times/day); this does not include laundry. Probably 1-2 hours/day on food prep (sometimes more).

It is much easier once the kids are older (5+), but then you tend to do a lot more driving around. There are days when we do nothing else but drive them around to various classes and activities.

And as far as money meaning too much to me, personally; well, I’ve seen what divorce can do to people. Money should never be the focus, but those who don’t take a very realistic and business-like approach to it will usually end up in a very bad place.

I watched my middle-aged mom lose everything when my parents divorced (and my dad felt that he was the one who got screwed), and she was at an age where it was very difficult to get a full-time, decent-paying job. She was a UCLA grad, made good money in real estate, but that’s a tough gig because of the volatility if you’re not married to someone who has a regular paycheck. She had to take part-time jobs that paid less than I was making at the time while going to college. She was the one who built our family’s wealth because she was excellent with money and investments, but that didn’t count in divorce court, nor did the fact that the divorce was unilaterally chosen by my father.

As for my personal situation, I had the house with the tiny mortgage, bought near the bottom of the market in the mid-late 90s. I was the one with savings and no debt. I was the one with two (older) paid-off cars. I was the one who fought every one of our friends and family members (including husband) on selling to rent (made hundreds of thousands on the house), and I was the one who shorted the market and all of the housing, banking, etc. stocks (made hundreds of thousands on that along with other investments, too). My parents left an above-average inheritance, as well. Trust me, my husband scored on the financial front when he married me, too. I’m not materialistic, but realistic. I know that without money, there is no food, no housing, no healthcare, no buffer in case of emergency, no retirement.

I’m not fighting for myself, as I’ve made provisions for that a long time ago. I’m fighting for those who CANNOT afford a divorce as a SAHP. I’m fighting for those who are too naive when they enter marriages and decide to stay home with their children. Too many people are not aware of the Second Wives Club and their divorce reform movement. That needs to change.[/quote]

Pretty good comeback, we are somewhat similar, Not the family of origin stuff but getting future security started before being married.Making it easier for my wife and I to afford to work part time much of the last 13 years. I tried some things that worked and others that didn’t , but didn’t cost much either but we all agree were good experiences. However, we are talking about stay at home parenting childcare, homemaking value, not balancing lifetime contributions, which of course hold sway( not very romantic but true). The men we are talking about would not have been vulnerable if they married you and that is exactly what I have been saying. You are evidently advocating for victims that are as self-made as the these men who are crying foul before they ever even get married. It’s just excuses. Even if we have done some things wrong the first time…don’t do it wrong the same way again or jump on a shelf unless that’s where you want to be.

[NotCranky]

[quote=scaredyclassic]http://www.nytimes.com/2012/03/05/us/alimony-payers-prod-states-to-update-divorce-laws.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0

the national trend is toward some reform…endless payouts just don’t sit well with people’s feelings about equality, the potential to work and change and fairness…

really, getting married is such an incredible risk for so many high earners…to not get a prenup is just a sign that when one is in love, one is on drugs so powerful, mindaltering and fuckedup that heroin and cocaine might as well be tea and aspirin.[/quote]

I’d just go back to this, change has some things with unfortunate lag times… you have to be faster than the machine…it’s slow, don’t be a sheep , make it work.

Too much hubris, I know.

[NotCranky]

I think that is well said.

[NotCranky]

[quote=scaredyclassic]To me, respect and-or money at a job om good at is extremely important and overlaps with being a good dad. I realize that means I’m old fashioned and not an absolute truth but I’d be lying to myself if I said otherwise.

My kids describe me as a “typhoon” when cleaning a super messy kitchen a blaze of powerful energy. My wife thinks I do a bad job. I’d say I do an 87 percent. But the true grade could be in the mid to low 70s. She is in the high 90s but takes way way way longer and is wiped out after whereas I’m just warmed up…
Am I better? I think doing a good enough job at housework, childcare stuff will lead to higher satisfaction and less fatigue for SAHPs

forget an A shoot for a B or C![/quote]

Supporting your kids is awesome! In that I think it all matters…more ways than one to skin a cat….accomplishments matter to us all and it is hard to get get strokes as a stay at home parent because it seems like such an ordinary thing to do, but it’s up to a person to let that bother them or not. Do something else if it does. One can have plenty of victories and not much legacy…I can live with that..not without some regrets but live with it. Can’t have everything.

[NotCranky]

Traditionally the stay at home mom was done when the kids were 18 or so! Career 40-50 bloody years! Never had to go to war and be maimed or killed…it was so unfair.

I could see it when there were cows to milk and clothes to wash on rocks , animals to castrate, vegetables to grow and put up etc etc etc.

[NotCranky]

C or better, mostly A’s and B’s.

[NotCranky]

[quote=scaredyclassic]Wait a minute… In ca r’s defense, women put higher levels of energy into the c task. My wife spends a weekend alone at home with the kids and she us wiped out. Me, not even fatigued. Why? I’m kind of lame. It’s more like a frat house. I don’t know. I expend less mental and phys. Energies. By our nature’s the role is going to such more out of SAM than SAHD.

I suspect it has to do with the ache to be with them…[/quote]

You are over generalizing. Not that there isn’t some truth to it. …but there are plenty of things that my wife does half measures or not at all and I do with a lot more diligence an depth….just different things. I would think that’s pretty typical…Anyway, someone had to bring some balance to the thing.

[NotCranky]

CArenter,
Many people feel liberated by a divorce….again ….your money means too much to you and you have to frame things that way. I know a woman, was a stay at home mom ..became a single working mom, lost the house, had not too much help from the father, worked at very low wages and was very liberated.

I am sorry Carenter, you are so nice..and that’s appreciated. However, on this you have and obvious chip on your shoulder and come across as unsympathetic to men. Do you consider single working parents or struggling dual income families before you get on the pity pot? People like us are way up there in the have it made zone..not the top but c’mon.

No way shape or form is typical stay at home parenting as hard as a full time career, from blue collar to king of the world. Are there hardships along the way, Yes, probably in most cases.

Imagine how this sounds, stay at home mom to working stiff, “you better make a living and do it in such a way that we never have to move somewhere I don’t want to go”. I want to stay at home and have you keep my career possibiilties intact locally and ….all my friendships that I have time and social energy for since I am staying at home and not facing a lot of cut throat assholes everyday….and don’t mess up my blogging time either. BTW, I am a huge victim and you are a pig if we have to move.

Besides that, aren’t you supposed to have worked that out before you got married? Caveat emptor.

Like I said, the only thing you can make a case on is home schooling….that’s it.

Typical Stay at home day with 7, 9,11, y.o

6:45 , get your asses out of bed you know what to do. I clean a little around them make a couple or sandwhiches.
8;15 last drop off,

Almost 6 hours to do pretty much whatever I want.

2:00 Starting rounding up kids. Take them swimming( I swim too!), to the library( I surf the internet and look at stuff too!) or straight home for Play or , chores, Coach or sit around at practices and chat with the nice neighbors, or go to mommy and me classes…whoa this is really hard.

30 minute work for dinner, 30 minutes work to clean up.

O.K. do your homework ask me if you need any help, review homework etc. ! hour casual work, while doing other things that suit me like tinker with my hobby stuff , share that with my little buddies if they are interested.

O.k. You guys can watch tv, read, play, fight some more, or do minecraft now, don’t hurt each other too badly on a school night.

Brush your teeth and get ready for bed…anyone want a story…I love you guys(it’s an awful painful hard life but I still do)

Night little blogstars.

Fight some more with people on the internet.

Those 3 months when the kids aren’t in school…I get to spend time with my little buds and do even less! 3 day weekends, chill! This is really hard. 3 weeks for Christmas, Spring break, hey guys lets go fishing everyday( how much does mom owe me for covering that?)

Laundry ave. 15 minutes a day and we often use a clothesline.
House cleaning max 2 hours a week not including dishes. More once in a while when guest or coming or things have just gotten out of hand.
Shopping a few hour a week.

Most other elaborate meals baking etc….Optional and in our case often “family time” not work.

Take care of yard and cars… a few hours a week doesn’t begin to put a dent in all the available hours. Many working dads , even peopel doing overtime, do all this stuff on weekends and evenings anyway.

Nothing puts more than a half time dent in the available hours.

Full time working Wife, after work, catch up on work emails (which generally create some work), plan for next day, also watch kids, read to them, stop them from fighting if she is closest…Have a husband to entertain. I am sure it is a lot of work for the poor woman to have to catch up with me and the kids after spending time with hundreds of people all day everyday. I wonder how much she should get paid for her side job at home?

The situation is a lot more fluid than that ,but only an idiot would think my job is as hard as my wifes once she goes full time soon. Thing is she wanted it that way …and I am going to continue to work part time or volunteer because the other thing isn’t enough and I will lose my mind or die of guilt.

[NotCranky]

Who would regulate and resolve all these custom crafted contracts? Governments their courts and lawyers! What a disaster. Divorce corps on steroids. I guess there could be arbitration clauses , it could get interesting. But I think it wouldn’t be very successful because few people would come to terms or agreement to even make a contract in the first place.

What would be specified. WHo cooks, How often and in what ways to knock boots? How appropriately trophy someone had to keep themselves looking…weekly allowance?

Maybe we could start spouse owner associations.

[NotCranky]

[quote=FlyerInHi][quote=6packscaredy]Of course, marriage itself is no place for romantics.[/quote]

Marriage itself is a big contract, one size fits all, by law.

Wouldn’t it be more romantic to customize your own arrangement?[/quote]

No, romantic would be innocent, trusting, head over heals blind love. Prenuptial contracts are not that.

[NotCranky]

[quote=FlyerInHi]Marriage is an anachronism. The whole concept should be abolished.

The industry should be deregulated. Government should get out of the way so people can innovate and create individualized contracts that work for them.[/quote]

My decision not to take the sole breadwinner path was in part because of the government, I wanted to be liberated from the things you guys are legitimately terrified of and from Carenters man v. woman society which I think is prehistoric fantasy and manipulation. It is so condescending the way she says, “men are coming around “, when there is something she likes. ….but I am not in complete disagreement with divorce law especially where kids are concerned. If you want to marry some weak foreigner or some plastic trophy wife, I think there would be lots of risk there, individual contracts would be cool, should be legal, prostitution is probably what you would get but legal and of a little longer term, cool….but if you find a modern woman who can stand on her own two feet , then you will be o.k. too. If you want the other stuff consider you are going to probably pay for it and get on with it….but you love your money too much…what would everyone think of you when the inevitable divorce rip-off occurs? How would you ever recover from your self-fullfilling prophesy of doom that your brotherhood loves so much? That would be worse than dealing with the stigma of being an unwanted man with dogs.

[NotCranky]

.

[NotCranky]

.

[NotCranky]

You make good comments,joec, this woman is probably 10 steps ahead, tested the man with the “pressure” and thinks it will be fun for kev to think it was his idea to break up. Pressure from outside people is too bad though…that’s where the married people deserve the misery loves company comments…

[NotCranky]

True, but I didn’t need to see that before my shot of morning coffee and prozac….or go lift weights and prove I am not weak and tear my hamstrings and be weaker than when I started to prove the shortsighted folly bit.

[Author]

Posts