Divorce corp

[NotCranky]

C or better, mostly A’s and B’s.

[NotCranky]

Traditionally the stay at home mom was done when the kids were 18 or so! Career 40-50 bloody years! Never had to go to war and be maimed or killed…it was so unfair.

I could see it when there were cows to milk and clothes to wash on rocks , animals to castrate, vegetables to grow and put up etc etc etc.

[NotCranky]

[quote=scaredyclassic]To me, respect and-or money at a job om good at is extremely important and overlaps with being a good dad. I realize that means I’m old fashioned and not an absolute truth but I’d be lying to myself if I said otherwise.

My kids describe me as a “typhoon” when cleaning a super messy kitchen a blaze of powerful energy. My wife thinks I do a bad job. I’d say I do an 87 percent. But the true grade could be in the mid to low 70s. She is in the high 90s but takes way way way longer and is wiped out after whereas I’m just warmed up…
Am I better? I think doing a good enough job at housework, childcare stuff will lead to higher satisfaction and less fatigue for SAHPs

forget an A shoot for a B or C![/quote]

Supporting your kids is awesome! In that I think it all matters…more ways than one to skin a cat….accomplishments matter to us all and it is hard to get get strokes as a stay at home parent because it seems like such an ordinary thing to do, but it’s up to a person to let that bother them or not. Do something else if it does. One can have plenty of victories and not much legacy…I can live with that..not without some regrets but live with it. Can’t have everything.

[FlyerInHi]

On the journey through life, the road forks into many different paths. There are opportunities lost and advantages gained.

Forcing your former spouse to pay up for the choices you made is low.

Child support is a different matter. Parents have responsibilities to their kids. But adults need to mensch up, as it’s said in Yiddish.

[NotCranky]

I think that is well said.

[scaredyclassic]

Low? I disagree. There is definitely not just a financial benefit in having a sahp. I appreciate the sacrifices. I just feel like there’s got to to be a limit on it, that the financial partnership cannot continue forever after marriage with certain exception for long lasting marriages w much older spouses.

[NotCranky]

[quote=scaredyclassic]http://www.nytimes.com/2012/03/05/us/alimony-payers-prod-states-to-update-divorce-laws.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0

the national trend is toward some reform…endless payouts just don’t sit well with people’s feelings about equality, the potential to work and change and fairness…

really, getting married is such an incredible risk for so many high earners…to not get a prenup is just a sign that when one is in love, one is on drugs so powerful, mindaltering and fuckedup that heroin and cocaine might as well be tea and aspirin.[/quote]

I’d just go back to this, change has some things with unfortunate lag times… you have to be faster than the machine…it’s slow, don’t be a sheep , make it work.

Too much hubris, I know.

[CA renter]

[quote=Blogstar][quote=scaredyclassic]Wait a minute… In ca r’s defense, women put higher levels of energy into the c task. My wife spends a weekend alone at home with the kids and she us wiped out. Me, not even fatigued. Why? I’m kind of lame. It’s more like a frat house. I don’t know. I expend less mental and phys. Energies. By our nature’s the role is going to such more out of SAM than SAHD.

I suspect it has to do with the ache to be with them…[/quote]

You are over generalizing. Not that there isn’t some truth to it. …but there are plenty of things that my wife does half measures or not at all and I do with a lot more diligence an depth….just different things. I would think that’s pretty typical…Anyway, someone had to bring some balance to the thing.[/quote]

Of course, everyone is different, but scaredy’s right about this one. In my case, I spend *at least* 3-4 hours cleaning per day, which includes kitchen, dishes, bathrooms, vacuuming/mopping (which I tend to do daily, if not multiple times/day); this does not include laundry. Probably 1-2 hours/day on food prep (sometimes more).

It is much easier once the kids are older (5+), but then you tend to do a lot more driving around. There are days when we do nothing else but drive them around to various classes and activities.

And as far as money meaning too much to me, personally; well, I’ve seen what divorce can do to people. Money should never be the focus, but those who don’t take a very realistic and business-like approach to it will usually end up in a very bad place.

I watched my middle-aged mom lose everything when my parents divorced (and my dad felt that he was the one who got screwed), and she was at an age where it was very difficult to get a full-time, decent-paying job. She was a UCLA grad, made good money in real estate, but that’s a tough gig because of the volatility if you’re not married to someone who has a regular paycheck. She had to take part-time jobs that paid less than I was making at the time while going to college. She was the one who built our family’s wealth because she was excellent with money and investments, but that didn’t count in divorce court, nor did the fact that the divorce was unilaterally chosen by my father.

As for my personal situation, I had the house with the tiny mortgage, bought near the bottom of the market in the mid-late 90s. I was the one with savings and no debt. I was the one with two (older) paid-off cars. I was the one who fought every one of our friends and family members (including husband) on selling to rent (made hundreds of thousands on the house), and I was the one who shorted the market and all of the housing, banking, etc. stocks (made hundreds of thousands on that along with other investments, too). My parents left an above-average inheritance, as well. Trust me, my husband scored on the financial front when he married me, too. I’m not materialistic, but realistic. I know that without money, there is no food, no housing, no healthcare, no buffer in case of emergency, no retirement.

I’m not fighting for myself, as I’ve made provisions for that a long time ago. I’m fighting for those who CANNOT afford a divorce as a SAHP. I’m fighting for those who are too naive when they enter marriages and decide to stay home with their children. Too many people are not aware of the Second Wives Club and their divorce reform movement. That needs to change.

[CA renter]

[quote=scaredyclassic]To me, respect and-or money at a job om good at is extremely important and overlaps with being a good dad. I realize that means I’m old fashioned and not an absolute truth but I’d be lying to myself if I said otherwise.

My kids describe me as a “typhoon” when cleaning a super messy kitchen a blaze of powerful energy. My wife thinks I do a bad job. I’d say I do an 87 percent. But the true grade could be in the mid to low 70s. She is in the high 90s but takes way way way longer and is wiped out after whereas I’m just warmed up…
Am I better? I think doing a good enough job at housework, childcare stuff will lead to higher satisfaction and less fatigue for SAHPs

forget an A shoot for a B or C![/quote]

This is true. A lot of us probably make more work out of it than necessary.

[CA renter]

[quote=FlyerInHi]On the journey through life, the road forks into many different paths. There are opportunities lost and advantages gained.

Forcing your former spouse to pay up for the choices you made is low.

Child support is a different matter. Parents have responsibilities to their kids. But adults need to mensch up, as it’s said in Yiddish.[/quote]

If both spouses make that decision, shouldn’t they BOTH bear the risks?

I think you underestimate the number of people out there who WANT SAH spouses.

[scaredyclassic]

My level of housekeeping would be much much lower without my wife. Vacuum daily? What is the rush the dust isn’t going anywhere. Doesn’t it make more SenSe to allow some real dirt to accumulate? It provides a much better yield for the effort… I can see for sure where the bathroom absolutely has to be cleaned twice or at the very least once a month. I also like to empty the sink and clear the deck in the kitchen every day. But scrub the stove every day? I’m gonna Ness it up when I cook tomorrow. Consolidation…

[NotCranky]

[quote=CA renter][quote=Blogstar][quote=scaredyclassic]Wait a minute… In ca r’s defense, women put higher levels of energy into the c task. My wife spends a weekend alone at home with the kids and she us wiped out. Me, not even fatigued. Why? I’m kind of lame. It’s more like a frat house. I don’t know. I expend less mental and phys. Energies. By our nature’s the role is going to such more out of SAM than SAHD.

I suspect it has to do with the ache to be with them…[/quote]

You are over generalizing. Not that there isn’t some truth to it. …but there are plenty of things that my wife does half measures or not at all and I do with a lot more diligence an depth….just different things. I would think that’s pretty typical…Anyway, someone had to bring some balance to the thing.[/quote]

Of course, everyone is different, but scaredy’s right about this one. In my case, I spend *at least* 3-4 hours cleaning per day, which includes kitchen, dishes, bathrooms, vacuuming/mopping (which I tend to do daily, if not multiple times/day); this does not include laundry. Probably 1-2 hours/day on food prep (sometimes more).

It is much easier once the kids are older (5+), but then you tend to do a lot more driving around. There are days when we do nothing else but drive them around to various classes and activities.

And as far as money meaning too much to me, personally; well, I’ve seen what divorce can do to people. Money should never be the focus, but those who don’t take a very realistic and business-like approach to it will usually end up in a very bad place.

I watched my middle-aged mom lose everything when my parents divorced (and my dad felt that he was the one who got screwed), and she was at an age where it was very difficult to get a full-time, decent-paying job. She was a UCLA grad, made good money in real estate, but that’s a tough gig because of the volatility if you’re not married to someone who has a regular paycheck. She had to take part-time jobs that paid less than I was making at the time while going to college. She was the one who built our family’s wealth because she was excellent with money and investments, but that didn’t count in divorce court, nor did the fact that the divorce was unilaterally chosen by my father.

As for my personal situation, I had the house with the tiny mortgage, bought near the bottom of the market in the mid-late 90s. I was the one with savings and no debt. I was the one with two (older) paid-off cars. I was the one who fought every one of our friends and family members (including husband) on selling to rent (made hundreds of thousands on the house), and I was the one who shorted the market and all of the housing, banking, etc. stocks (made hundreds of thousands on that along with other investments, too). My parents left an above-average inheritance, as well. Trust me, my husband scored on the financial front when he married me, too. I’m not materialistic, but realistic. I know that without money, there is no food, no housing, no healthcare, no buffer in case of emergency, no retirement.

I’m not fighting for myself, as I’ve made provisions for that a long time ago. I’m fighting for those who CANNOT afford a divorce as a SAHP. I’m fighting for those who are too naive when they enter marriages and decide to stay home with their children. Too many people are not aware of the Second Wives Club and their divorce reform movement. That needs to change.[/quote]

Pretty good comeback, we are somewhat similar, Not the family of origin stuff but getting future security started before being married.Making it easier for my wife and I to afford to work part time much of the last 13 years. I tried some things that worked and others that didn’t , but didn’t cost much either but we all agree were good experiences. However, we are talking about stay at home parenting childcare, homemaking value, not balancing lifetime contributions, which of course hold sway( not very romantic but true). The men we are talking about would not have been vulnerable if they married you and that is exactly what I have been saying. You are evidently advocating for victims that are as self-made as the these men who are crying foul before they ever even get married. It’s just excuses. Even if we have done some things wrong the first time…don’t do it wrong the same way again or jump on a shelf unless that’s where you want to be.

[CA renter]

Yep, a lot of whining and claims of victimization on both side, and most of it legitimate…on both sides.

Divorce is a losing proposition for everybody (with the odd exception, like the one you mentioned above), especially financially.

[CA renter]

[quote=scaredyclassic]My level of housekeeping would be much much lower without my wife. Vacuum daily? What is the rush the dust isn’t going anywhere. Doesn’t it make more SenSe to allow some real dirt to accumulate? It provides a much better yield for the effort… I can see for sure where the bathroom absolutely has to be cleaned twice or at the very least once a month. I also like to empty the sink and clear the deck in the kitchen every day. But scrub the stove every day? I’m gonna Ness it up when I cook tomorrow. Consolidation…[/quote]

Very logical. I just can’t stand the mess in between.

[NotCranky]

[quote=scaredyclassic]My level of housekeeping would be much much lower without my wife. Vacuum daily? What is the rush the dust isn’t going anywhere. Doesn’t it make more SenSe to allow some real dirt to accumulate? It provides a much better yield for the effort… I can see for sure where the bathroom absolutely has to be cleaned twice or at the very least once a month. I also like to empty the sink and clear the deck in the kitchen every day. But scrub the stove every day? I’m gonna Ness it up when I cook tomorrow. Consolidation…[/quote]

You could always just put some grow lights over the dust and get some vegetables out of it…not your fault if you are resourceful…and a bit of a nature boy.

My wife and I have taken turns at almost every domestic task. This is not meant as a slight but she has never set the bar too high on any off them, she is possibly as proud of that as I am…I can hang…May be crying after a few weeks of her going full time but I can do it dammit.

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