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May 31, 2015 at 9:54 AM in reply to: China Hunting Fugitives Accused of Corruption – Many Are Living in US #786858May 31, 2015 at 9:51 AM in reply to: China Hunting Fugitives Accused of Corruption – Many Are Living in US #786857
Jazzman
Participant[quote=AN]Evidence all all around you. But lets first define what corruption mean… Corruption is the abuse of bestowed power or position to acquired a personal benefit. Now, I will state that greed is one of human nature. All of the countries that are communist have a very strong power structure with a small group of people having all the power. So, it would be obvious that those people who are in power would want to abuse their power to acquire personal benefit. In a democratic system, when the person or group of people are corrupted and the people know about it, they will be voted out of power. In countries like China, Vietnam, Laos, etc., if the people speak up about such corruption, they will disappear. The people are aware of the corruption but they don’t want to say anything, because they rather live. This is why I said communism tend to breed corruption and allow it to be rampant. Plain simple fact is, greed is part of human nature. Communism is great in theory, but I believe communism doesn’t take into consideration that greed is part of human nature and when you allow a small group of people to be in charge and no way for the people to kick them out, you will have corruption.
Keep in mind that I did not say only communist country have corruption. Since greed is part of human nature, I believe corruption will exist everywhere that there are a small group of people with all the power. As I stated, there’s no pure communist country. So, when I say communism, I mean the countries that call themselves communist, not the actual communism theory.
BTW, you’re the one who ask me where I got my information and whether it’s from western media. I told you one of the source where I got my information from, and now you’re saying it doesn’t cut it. So tell me, where do you get your information from? Chinese/Vietnamese/etc media?[/quote]
You said your source on information is “first hand experience”. You did not clarify that statement. You now say “evidence is all around you.” That also requires qualification. You would need to say that there are x counts of corruption in communist regimes compared to y counts of corruption in non-communist regimes, and cite your sources. Where x is greater than y, a case can be argued for greater corruption. Otherwise it is hearsay. Anyway, I now see you are backpedaling somewhat and concede corruption is part of human nature, and exists where power is held by small groups. Oligarchies, dictatorships, totalitarianism or what ever you want to call centralized power isn’t confined to communism. So what are you saying? Communism gives rise to more corruption than anywhere else? Or, corruption exists where small groups of power-grasping individuals fall prey to greed, and communism just happens to be included in that group?
May 31, 2015 at 8:53 AM in reply to: China Hunting Fugitives Accused of Corruption – Many Are Living in US #786856Participant“…our system of corruption being established within the legitimate political system.” I think that describes it well. Lobbying is a euphemism for corruption.
Participant[quote=harvey][quote=FlyerInHi]If you could live forever, you would never pay off your debts either. You would keep on rolling over your debt and increase it as your income increases. You would have unending increases in standard of living.[/quote]
Good points.
A common misconception about government debt is that it eventually must be paid off down to zero. This is not true.
The size of the debt is irrelevant. The only parameter that matters is the cost of the debt. And cost is relative to many things.[/quote] I don’t think it is irrelevant. How can it be since it is part of the equation. Moreover, since the cost to service it is variable that would seem to make a strong case to keep debt to manageable levels.
Participant[quote=moneymaker]Seems everybody wants to compare the National debt to GDP, what good does that do. Think that when comparing it to something that something should be relevant, like the ability to pay it back which would probably be based on federal receipts and not GDP. GDP is a bigger number which makes the National debt seem smaller.[/quote]
It does seem odd, but I guess it’s more scary.Participant[quote=flu][quote=AN]He’s free to do what he wants. It just make him a hypocrit. Some people don’t care if they’re hypocrit. Just don’t try to justify your position and convince others that you’re not a hypocrit. Like I said, it’s easy to talk the talk but it’s much harder to walk to walk.
I’m not the one who bash the establishment. If you really hate everything America stands for, then feel free to leave or run for office and make the change. Talking/bash/etc are like talking the talk. I don’t care about your particular stance. I’m just pointing out the hypocrisy of whining about something on one hand and taking advantage of the thing you’re whining about for your own personal gain on the other. That is hypocrisy.[/quote]
+1
I will never understand people that apparently hate this country so much at the same time enjoying all the benefits from our system. That is not to say things can’t be improved. But if you really think it would be better elsewhere, just leave….[/quote]
People love to hate, but I don’t think it is the country they hate. I don’t think you can hate a country, or love one for that matter. You can have strong feelings about some aspects that you find either odious, or pleasing, but a country is the sum of its many parts being too numerous for an individual to piece together. All criticism is valid and the best countries roll with punches. I think the US does that well so no need to send dissenters packing.Participant[quote=njtosd][quote=FlyerInHi] Americans do have a cowboy mentality.[/quote]
Please explain what you think a “cowboy” mentality is. Europeans love criticizing Americans by calling them cowboys. Do they realize that the Marlboro man was an enormously popular image in the US? Being a cowboy isn’t a negative in most people’s minds. On the other hand, I saw the musical of “Legally Blonde” the other day (school version) which included a song known as “Gay or European”. Here are the lyrics: http://www.nitrolyrics.com/legally-blonde-the-musical_there-right-there-gay-or-european-lyrics.html
There’s a big disconnect between Europe and the US in terms of what is considered masculine/desirable behavior (not sure whether the same applies for what is feminine).[/quote]
“Europeans love criticizing Americans by calling them cowboys.” Do they? Well, that’s something I confess I didn’t know. The term cowboy in the UK is used in reference to a shady outfit or lacking professionalism. I’m also at a loss about this ‘big disconnect’, and more to the point, what a European ‘view’ is. Whenever I hear Europeans lumped together, I’m pretty confident that person has never been to Europe. You’ll find that perceptions of masculinity, aside from popular images imposed on us by advertising, are as varied as are the countries within Europe.Participant[quote=njtosd][quote=spdrun] Things like this make me ashamed to be an American.
[/quote]
We’re ashamed that you’re an American, too. Why haven’t you left yet? As I recall you have dual citizenship – you should go wherever that other country is.[/quote]
Doesn’t exercising freedom of speech make you part of what you are as an American? And doesn’t criticizing someone for exercising that right make you, well, rather un-American?May 30, 2015 at 2:21 PM in reply to: China Hunting Fugitives Accused of Corruption – Many Are Living in US #786828Participant[quote=AN][quote=CA renter]All is correct about about the economic system not being communist if private individuals are allowed to own these companies.[/quote]I’m not talking about economic system. I’m talking about communism tend to breed corruption and allow it to run rampant. Just look at all the real life examples. I’m not here to discuss theories.[/quote]
How so? What evidence do you have to support this? Saying you have “[first] hand experience” doesn’t cut it. Why is communism more prone to corruption than other systems? Isn’t it that systems which have shunned communism for capitalism subsequently see an increase in corruption? Which countries are communist? China? Vietnam? Laos? Cuba? North Korea? According to the Corruption Index only two of those are in the bottom 25% most corrupt countries, and one of them is North Korea, a totalitarian dictatorship, so hardly a credible contender. When I was studying in Soviet Russia, it always struck me how righteous both the West and Russia were. How can two opposing systems lay equal claim to the mantle of (superior) righteousness? The problem with convictions is always that the more tightly they are held, the more obtuse and discriminating they make the holder. I think you’ll find that corruption owes its existence more to the human condition than purely political formations.Participant[quote=AN] I’m just pointing out the hypocrisy of whining about something on one hand and taking advantage of the thing you’re whining about for your own personal gain on the other. That is hypocrisy.[/quote]
Maybe. Or you may be left with little choice and are being expedient. So you aren’t necessarily sacrificing convictions or being hypocritical, just surviving.ParticipantWeren’t a lot of jobs lost in construction and housing after the bust?
May 27, 2015 at 12:46 PM in reply to: China Hunting Fugitives Accused of Corruption – Many Are Living in US #786689Participant[quote=all][quote=AN]Again, if not communism, then what are they? If you object to what they call themselves, then you surely would have a better name for them, right? FYI, there’s no such thing as pure communism or capitalism or socialism or fascism. I’ve never claimed that they’re pure communist according to the political theory. Afterall, they’re all just theories. How those theories get applied varry greatly. Especially when you take into account human nature.[/quote]
I already did – it is just another corrupt, authoritarian society.
You can interpret the communist manifesto creatively, but what you labeled as communist society is not described there. If the means of production are individually owned it cannot be communism. If there is accumulation of wealth by a person or a group it cannot be communism. If there are privileged groups (as in class), it cannot be communism.[/quote]
I think you are both right and saying more or less the same thing. “State Capitalism” is the term I hear used most frequently in reference to China’s politics and economy. I take that to mean centralized control of a free market economy. I’d speculate there’s a huge internal debate about just how much the Chinese authorities dare loosen their grip on control of the economy (and politics). I doubt a picture of Alan Greenspan hangs on any walls in the corridors of power, just as I’m sure that many regret the lost years following the Cultural Revolution.
May 27, 2015 at 12:29 PM in reply to: China Hunting Fugitives Accused of Corruption – Many Are Living in US #786688Participant[quote=AN][quote=Jazzman]And you think capitalism doesn’t? Of course there a controls against corruption in China. There is a huge clamp down going on now against regional corruption (if you can believe the media). First, you have to determine what you mean by corruption or fraud. There are restraints on the free movement of capital preventing you from taking money out of China. No wonder people ferret it out illegally. So what may be legit to some may be deemed fraud elsewhere.[/quote]Again, not anywhere close to the same scale. We’re talking about billionaires getting their fortunes through bribery and being able to dictate what business succeed or fail based on whether they get a share of that company or not. All the while the citizens are dirt poor. We’re not talking about American “poor” either. We’re talking about local officials skimming from the top off road projects where the end result funding is a fraction of what it started out as and end up with poor quality roads due to lack of funding. The corruption starts from the bottom and go all the way to the top. I can go on and not, but point is, not even close.[/quote]
Where do you get your information? Western media? I don’t think we can really be sure of the extent of the problem. Corruption is by its nature cleverly concealed. According to the 2014 corruption index, China comes 100th out of 174 countries, so it’s not the most corrupt country. That doesn’t mean it isn’t a problem, but I don’t believe corruption is endemic to post-communist regimes. It’s everywhere, but is generally worse in poorer countries. US/China tensions no doubt magnify each other’s shortcomings.
May 25, 2015 at 10:48 PM in reply to: China Hunting Fugitives Accused of Corruption – Many Are Living in US #786645Participant[quote=AN][quote=CA renter]It’s typical of capitalist societies, too. It’s natural behavior for humans who are on the extremely high end of the greed spectrum, and has nothing to do with a country’s political-economic structure.[/quote]Yes, it is human nature, but communism allow greed to go unchecked.[/quote]
And you think capitalism doesn’t? Of course there a controls against corruption in China. There is a huge clamp down going on now against regional corruption (if you can believe the media). First, you have to determine what you mean by corruption or fraud. There are restraints on the free movement of capital preventing you from taking money out of China. No wonder people ferret it out illegally. So what may be legit to some may be deemed fraud elsewhere.ParticipantI must admit that some of these newer homes do look nice. They are architecturally pleasing, with well thought out interiors. But that is a lot of money to live in ‘lizard land’ as BG puts it. I also think adobe style homes look so much more as ease in arid, semi desert environments than these neo-classical/traditional homes, which beg to be surrounded by trees and blooming gardens.
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