- This topic has 51 replies, 10 voices, and was last updated 8 years, 10 months ago by an.
-
AuthorPosts
-
May 31, 2015 at 2:42 AM #786855May 31, 2015 at 8:53 AM #786856JazzmanParticipant
“…our system of corruption being established within the legitimate political system.” I think that describes it well. Lobbying is a euphemism for corruption.
May 31, 2015 at 9:51 AM #786857JazzmanParticipant[quote=AN]Evidence all all around you. But lets first define what corruption mean… Corruption is the abuse of bestowed power or position to acquired a personal benefit. Now, I will state that greed is one of human nature. All of the countries that are communist have a very strong power structure with a small group of people having all the power. So, it would be obvious that those people who are in power would want to abuse their power to acquire personal benefit. In a democratic system, when the person or group of people are corrupted and the people know about it, they will be voted out of power. In countries like China, Vietnam, Laos, etc., if the people speak up about such corruption, they will disappear. The people are aware of the corruption but they don’t want to say anything, because they rather live. This is why I said communism tend to breed corruption and allow it to be rampant. Plain simple fact is, greed is part of human nature. Communism is great in theory, but I believe communism doesn’t take into consideration that greed is part of human nature and when you allow a small group of people to be in charge and no way for the people to kick them out, you will have corruption.
Keep in mind that I did not say only communist country have corruption. Since greed is part of human nature, I believe corruption will exist everywhere that there are a small group of people with all the power. As I stated, there’s no pure communist country. So, when I say communism, I mean the countries that call themselves communist, not the actual communism theory.
BTW, you’re the one who ask me where I got my information and whether it’s from western media. I told you one of the source where I got my information from, and now you’re saying it doesn’t cut it. So tell me, where do you get your information from? Chinese/Vietnamese/etc media?[/quote]
You said your source on information is “first hand experience”. You did not clarify that statement. You now say “evidence is all around you.” That also requires qualification. You would need to say that there are x counts of corruption in communist regimes compared to y counts of corruption in non-communist regimes, and cite your sources. Where x is greater than y, a case can be argued for greater corruption. Otherwise it is hearsay. Anyway, I now see you are backpedaling somewhat and concede corruption is part of human nature, and exists where power is held by small groups. Oligarchies, dictatorships, totalitarianism or what ever you want to call centralized power isn’t confined to communism. So what are you saying? Communism gives rise to more corruption than anywhere else? Or, corruption exists where small groups of power-grasping individuals fall prey to greed, and communism just happens to be included in that group?
May 31, 2015 at 9:54 AM #786858JazzmanParticipant[quote=AN]It doesn’t matter how much you pay politicians. As I stated, greed is human nature, which mean you will never have enough.
BTW, corruption is not acceptable here. So when it’s discovered, the perpetrator get punished. Just look at the cop who trade sexual favors for not giving traffic violations. He gets put in jail here. Over there, people wouldn’t bat an eye.[/quote]
But that argues China (or wherever) is more corrupt than the US. It doesn’t argue communism gives rise to more corruption than other political systems.May 31, 2015 at 10:09 AM #786860JazzmanParticipant[quote=FlyerInHi]We have less need for corruption because we have an established system for former politicians to trade access to power for legitimate $ millions. There’s the revolving door to corporate jobs.
In some countries, a minister’s salary maybe a paltry $1000 per month. That’s why Singapore has zero tolerance but pays their officials the highest in the world. That started when they were poor.
Singapore always scores near the lowest in the corruption index.[/quote]
I think that might depend on which side of the fence you sit, and how legitimate you feel the $ millions paid are, and how legitimate you feel it is to access power in that way. Corruption is very much an ‘established system’ for doing business. That doesn’t make it any less corrupt. Anyway, as another poster said earlier, it isn’t all necessarily bad. Where lobbying fails democracy is when special interests gain concessions and profit to the unambiguous detriment of the populace. My opinion is that the failure of gun control legislation is a clear case in point.May 31, 2015 at 3:15 PM #786874anParticipant[quote=Jazzman][quote=AN]It doesn’t matter how much you pay politicians. As I stated, greed is human nature, which mean you will never have enough.
BTW, corruption is not acceptable here. So when it’s discovered, the perpetrator get punished. Just look at the cop who trade sexual favors for not giving traffic violations. He gets put in jail here. Over there, people wouldn’t bat an eye.[/quote]
But that argues China (or wherever) is more corrupt than the US. It doesn’t argue communism gives rise to more corruption than other political systems.[/quote]
Show me one communist country that make it to the top 10 least corrupt country.May 31, 2015 at 3:20 PM #786875anParticipant[quote=Jazzman][quote=AN]Evidence all all around you. But lets first define what corruption mean… Corruption is the abuse of bestowed power or position to acquired a personal benefit. Now, I will state that greed is one of human nature. All of the countries that are communist have a very strong power structure with a small group of people having all the power. So, it would be obvious that those people who are in power would want to abuse their power to acquire personal benefit. In a democratic system, when the person or group of people are corrupted and the people know about it, they will be voted out of power. In countries like China, Vietnam, Laos, etc., if the people speak up about such corruption, they will disappear. The people are aware of the corruption but they don’t want to say anything, because they rather live. This is why I said communism tend to breed corruption and allow it to be rampant. Plain simple fact is, greed is part of human nature. Communism is great in theory, but I believe communism doesn’t take into consideration that greed is part of human nature and when you allow a small group of people to be in charge and no way for the people to kick them out, you will have corruption.
Keep in mind that I did not say only communist country have corruption. Since greed is part of human nature, I believe corruption will exist everywhere that there are a small group of people with all the power. As I stated, there’s no pure communist country. So, when I say communism, I mean the countries that call themselves communist, not the actual communism theory.
BTW, you’re the one who ask me where I got my information and whether it’s from western media. I told you one of the source where I got my information from, and now you’re saying it doesn’t cut it. So tell me, where do you get your information from? Chinese/Vietnamese/etc media?[/quote]
You said your source on information is “first hand experience”. You did not clarify that statement. You now say “evidence is all around you.” That also requires qualification. You would need to say that there are x counts of corruption in communist regimes compared to y counts of corruption in non-communist regimes, and cite your sources. Where x is greater than y, a case can be argued for greater corruption. Otherwise it is hearsay. Anyway, I now see you are backpedaling somewhat and concede corruption is part of human nature, and exists where power is held by small groups. Oligarchies, dictatorships, totalitarianism or what ever you want to call centralized power isn’t confined to communism. So what are you saying? Communism gives rise to more corruption than anywhere else? Or, corruption exists where small groups of power-grasping individuals fall prey to greed, and communism just happens to be included in that group?[/quote]
I’ve been saying this since the beginning of this thread. I can’t help you with your reading ability. Regardless, I’m done with debating straw man arguments. Have a nice day. -
AuthorPosts
- You must be logged in to reply to this topic.