China Hunting Fugitives Accused of Corruption – Many Are Living in US

[CA renter]

[quote=AN]CAR, seriously, you’ve lost all credibility in my eyes after your first sentence. If you think the level of corruption here is anywhere close to what’s in China or Vietnam, then you’re gravely mistaken. If occupied wall street happen in Vietnam or China, they would disappear. I’d like to see examples of custom officers here taking bribe openly and if you don’t bribe them, they’ll open your stuff for no reason. Custom officers over there will laugh and give back your $20 bribe. I’d like to see examples of city officials taking bribes for approving of projects and taking city general funds for personal use.[/quote]

AN, FIH is correct about our system of corruption being established within the legitimate political system. Not only that, but the kind of corruption that you’ve specifically noted is absolutely going on here.

Do you really believe that city officials don’t take bribes to approve certain projects? How about when they push to build infrastructure that serves to increase the value of specific properties that just happen to be owned by friends, family members, or “connected supporters”? What about when they force a public agency to grossly overpay for a property that belongs to a special friend? All of this, and much, much more, goes on all the time.

And don’t even get me started on the defense industry!

Here’s a list of some of the top lobbyists. This does not include campaign donations, jobs for friends and family members, various unaccounted-for gifts, and the promise of jobs in the very industries that many of the politicians are supposed to be regulating.

https://www.opensecrets.org/lobby/top.php?indexType=s

Why do you think billions upon billions of dollars are spent on politicians between every election cycle? Why do you think there is such a crowded revolving door between public office and private industry?

Who do you think writes our laws? Our trade agreements? Who do you think determines whether or not we go to war and how the wars will be run? Who do you think chooses the “anointed” candidates in an election? The politicians are simply puppets for the people who run the show. All of this is done by industry and their lobbyists.

Sorry, AN, but you’re just not familiar with what goes on here. The deeper you look into it, the more surprised you’ll be. For every person who gets caught, there are hundreds (or more) who are not. And those who are caught are usually caught only because they are guilty of pissing off the wrong people.

Corruption is rampant. It is how business gets done in politics.

[Jazzman]

“…our system of corruption being established within the legitimate political system.” I think that describes it well. Lobbying is a euphemism for corruption.

[Jazzman]

[quote=AN]Evidence all all around you. But lets first define what corruption mean… Corruption is the abuse of bestowed power or position to acquired a personal benefit. Now, I will state that greed is one of human nature. All of the countries that are communist have a very strong power structure with a small group of people having all the power. So, it would be obvious that those people who are in power would want to abuse their power to acquire personal benefit. In a democratic system, when the person or group of people are corrupted and the people know about it, they will be voted out of power. In countries like China, Vietnam, Laos, etc., if the people speak up about such corruption, they will disappear. The people are aware of the corruption but they don’t want to say anything, because they rather live. This is why I said communism tend to breed corruption and allow it to be rampant. Plain simple fact is, greed is part of human nature. Communism is great in theory, but I believe communism doesn’t take into consideration that greed is part of human nature and when you allow a small group of people to be in charge and no way for the people to kick them out, you will have corruption.

Keep in mind that I did not say only communist country have corruption. Since greed is part of human nature, I believe corruption will exist everywhere that there are a small group of people with all the power. As I stated, there’s no pure communist country. So, when I say communism, I mean the countries that call themselves communist, not the actual communism theory.

BTW, you’re the one who ask me where I got my information and whether it’s from western media. I told you one of the source where I got my information from, and now you’re saying it doesn’t cut it. So tell me, where do you get your information from? Chinese/Vietnamese/etc media?[/quote]

You said your source on information is “first hand experience”. You did not clarify that statement. You now say “evidence is all around you.” That also requires qualification. You would need to say that there are x counts of corruption in communist regimes compared to y counts of corruption in non-communist regimes, and cite your sources. Where x is greater than y, a case can be argued for greater corruption. Otherwise it is hearsay. Anyway, I now see you are backpedaling somewhat and concede corruption is part of human nature, and exists where power is held by small groups. Oligarchies, dictatorships, totalitarianism or what ever you want to call centralized power isn’t confined to communism. So what are you saying? Communism gives rise to more corruption than anywhere else? Or, corruption exists where small groups of power-grasping individuals fall prey to greed, and communism just happens to be included in that group?

[Jazzman]

[quote=AN]It doesn’t matter how much you pay politicians. As I stated, greed is human nature, which mean you will never have enough.

BTW, corruption is not acceptable here. So when it’s discovered, the perpetrator get punished. Just look at the cop who trade sexual favors for not giving traffic violations. He gets put in jail here. Over there, people wouldn’t bat an eye.[/quote]
But that argues China (or wherever) is more corrupt than the US. It doesn’t argue communism gives rise to more corruption than other political systems.

[Jazzman]

[quote=FlyerInHi]We have less need for corruption because we have an established system for former politicians to trade access to power for legitimate $ millions. There’s the revolving door to corporate jobs.

In some countries, a minister’s salary maybe a paltry $1000 per month. That’s why Singapore has zero tolerance but pays their officials the highest in the world. That started when they were poor.

Singapore always scores near the lowest in the corruption index.[/quote]
I think that might depend on which side of the fence you sit, and how legitimate you feel the $ millions paid are, and how legitimate you feel it is to access power in that way. Corruption is very much an ‘established system’ for doing business. That doesn’t make it any less corrupt. Anyway, as another poster said earlier, it isn’t all necessarily bad. Where lobbying fails democracy is when special interests gain concessions and profit to the unambiguous detriment of the populace. My opinion is that the failure of gun control legislation is a clear case in point.

[an]

[quote=Jazzman][quote=AN]It doesn’t matter how much you pay politicians. As I stated, greed is human nature, which mean you will never have enough.

BTW, corruption is not acceptable here. So when it’s discovered, the perpetrator get punished. Just look at the cop who trade sexual favors for not giving traffic violations. He gets put in jail here. Over there, people wouldn’t bat an eye.[/quote]
But that argues China (or wherever) is more corrupt than the US. It doesn’t argue communism gives rise to more corruption than other political systems.[/quote]
Show me one communist country that make it to the top 10 least corrupt country.

[an]

[quote=Jazzman][quote=AN]Evidence all all around you. But lets first define what corruption mean… Corruption is the abuse of bestowed power or position to acquired a personal benefit. Now, I will state that greed is one of human nature. All of the countries that are communist have a very strong power structure with a small group of people having all the power. So, it would be obvious that those people who are in power would want to abuse their power to acquire personal benefit. In a democratic system, when the person or group of people are corrupted and the people know about it, they will be voted out of power. In countries like China, Vietnam, Laos, etc., if the people speak up about such corruption, they will disappear. The people are aware of the corruption but they don’t want to say anything, because they rather live. This is why I said communism tend to breed corruption and allow it to be rampant. Plain simple fact is, greed is part of human nature. Communism is great in theory, but I believe communism doesn’t take into consideration that greed is part of human nature and when you allow a small group of people to be in charge and no way for the people to kick them out, you will have corruption.

Keep in mind that I did not say only communist country have corruption. Since greed is part of human nature, I believe corruption will exist everywhere that there are a small group of people with all the power. As I stated, there’s no pure communist country. So, when I say communism, I mean the countries that call themselves communist, not the actual communism theory.

BTW, you’re the one who ask me where I got my information and whether it’s from western media. I told you one of the source where I got my information from, and now you’re saying it doesn’t cut it. So tell me, where do you get your information from? Chinese/Vietnamese/etc media?[/quote]

You said your source on information is “first hand experience”. You did not clarify that statement. You now say “evidence is all around you.” That also requires qualification. You would need to say that there are x counts of corruption in communist regimes compared to y counts of corruption in non-communist regimes, and cite your sources. Where x is greater than y, a case can be argued for greater corruption. Otherwise it is hearsay. Anyway, I now see you are backpedaling somewhat and concede corruption is part of human nature, and exists where power is held by small groups. Oligarchies, dictatorships, totalitarianism or what ever you want to call centralized power isn’t confined to communism. So what are you saying? Communism gives rise to more corruption than anywhere else? Or, corruption exists where small groups of power-grasping individuals fall prey to greed, and communism just happens to be included in that group?[/quote]
I’ve been saying this since the beginning of this thread. I can’t help you with your reading ability. Regardless, I’m done with debating straw man arguments. Have a nice day.

[Author]

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