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aldante
Participant[quote=CA renter][quote=SK in CV][quote=aldante]
From the transcript: BACKGROUND HOW WE GOT HERE!!!! (to your point)
pg1 paragragh 6
Seeing their market share decline as a result fo this change of demand, the GSEs made the decision to widen their focus from the safter prime loans and begin chasing the non-prime market, loosening long-standing underwiriting and risk managment standards along the way. This would be a fateful decision that not only proved disastrous for the companies themselves – but ultimately also for the American Taxpayer.
Once again….RP was right in what happened and you are trying some rhetorical tool to make your arguement.He never stated that the GSE’s caused the problem but that the passgae of the bill would add fuel to the fire of a false housing boom. Which is exactly what happened.[/quote]
You have to read that quote in historical context. It doesn’t say anywhere in there that the GSE’s were a significant party to the growth of the housing bubble or the cause of its crash. The GSE’s didn’t loosen their standards and get into the subprime market until late in 2006, well after the peak. By that time, the crash had already begun. That was what he was referring to in the last sentence of the quoted piece. The GSE management decided it would be a good idea to both acquire subprime loans and became, by far, the biggest buyer of mortgage backed securities, something they had never done before. (Indeed, they have always issued MBS, but never before bought them.) That was the disasterous decision for both the shareholders of the GSE’s and the federal government, ergo, the taxpayers. That decision probably temporarily slowed the crash.
Paul was right in his prediction. He was dead wrong on how or why it was going to happen.[/quote]
I’ve always thought the GSEs were forced into taking on these riskier securities, precisely because the PTB in the financial-political sector already knew what was coming, and they were trying, even at that early stage, to transfer the risks and losses from the private market to the taxpayers. IMHO, it was never about the GSEs wanting to compete with the private market…they were made to do it to save the private market.
Anyone who was watching this idiocy over the long haul knew full well that the private market was what drove the credit bubble. The GSEs (and FHA, and various bailouts) were simply used as a dumping ground for most of the losses. The losses are mounting, even today.
In addition to the credit ratings agencies, the derivatives market is what allowed all the mispricing of risk to begin with, IMO. That’s why I think financial derivatives should be banned, or moved to a very transparent, highly regulated, and very small open exchange. The only reason for their existence is to hide the true price of risk and/or to speculate on the movement of securities. Either way, they pose risks that are too great, and increase the liklihood of systemic panics.[/quote]
This article discusses the involvement of government policy in the “Mortgage Meltdown”
http://news.investors.com/Article/589858/201110310805/Housing-Crisis-Obama-Clinton-Subprime.htmI remembered that serval on this board were doubting a link existed and put the blame only on the banks. Enjoy.
Participant[quote=walterwhite]Yes have fun it’s nice to see people excited politically. I can’t relate but it seems like it could be fun. Hint about persuading people, though, best to stick to the arguments and not imply that the persuader is blind, dumb or overlooking the glaringly obvious.
Paul Ron in 2012! Or wait is it Ron Paul. Dammit I’m getting old I cannot remember[/quote]
I did not forget that you said you would vote for him!
ParticipantKeep it up!
Participant[quote=stockstradr]I contributed yesterday to the Ron Paul for President campaign.
I did it to honor the fact that without question he is the only candidate speaking intelligently and honestly about America’s problems and how to best fix them.
Let me guess. Those reading this thread agree with the above, yet you think he cannot win so you withhold support? Then YOU are part of why America’s political system is broken. You create the Catch-22, by withholding support by pre-judging that a decent, honest truth-telling candidate cannot triumph over the evil, corrupting machine that is the American political process.[/quote]
If you read the thread you will see I have gathered two commitments to vote for Ron Paul. I am doing all that I can to represent what I understand about Ron Paul. Including his attitude of decency and fairness during a disagreement. This is one of the reasons I respect him so much: because at times I have failed on this thread to be nice all the time. But he is a great PATRIOT who believes in freedom. I personally contribute every money bomb. I will also pass along to anyone interested his voluteer program. So far I have made about 300 phone calls to New Hampshire for RP. Heck if only two more would join me we could talk to half of the population of that state!
My biggest frustration is the attitude that RP is somehow “unelectable”. WHAT????
Everyone is electable if the get enough votes. He has over One Hundred thousand DONORS to his campaign. This in it self should show people to quit listening to the detractors and ask themselves how can anyone et one-hundred Americans to dole out any cash for nothing in return. It truly is remarkable.Participant[quote=markmax33][quote=markmax33]
NO! Boom and bust cycles are required in a free market. The huge green you see is the federal reserve’s $14.8T of debt and the unequal redistribution of wealth. Our redline will be much larger than anything previously seen and will trump the rest of history.[/quote][quote=SK in CV]
I think you’re confusing federal debt (which is about $14 trillion) and federal reserve debt, which was less than $2.5 trillion at the beginning of the year.
[/quote]I might not be 100% clear:
1. The national debt is $14.8T:
2. The federal reserve loaned $16T during Ron Paul’s audit since the bailout:
http://www.unelected.org/audit-of-the-federal-reserve-reveals-16-trillion-in-secret-bailouts
It should shock you into submission.
[quote=SK in CV]
And please explain the “unequal redistribution of wealth”. Do you really mean unequal? Which would mean the redistribution isn’t the same for everyone. Which would make the word unequal unnecessary because redistribution would mean the same thing. Or do you mean unequalled, as in it’s never happened before? Because historically it has happened before. We’ve had much higher taxes than we have currently.[/quote]Unequal redistribution of wealth = The GOV and federal reserve bailout the big banks and the big bank CEOs make millions of dollars in bonuses while millions of Americans are losing their jobs and losing their homes. This is horrible and should concern all Americans.[/quote]
That sounds like a pretty good definition to me!
Participant[quote=pri_dk][quote=aldante]I paid $76/per pay period for health care 1997. Today that is $238 per pay period. I work for the same company and I have the same number of dependants […][/quote]
What is “health care?”
Do you get exactly the same thing for your money as you did in 1997?
Is health care better today than it was in 1997? Are there new treatments, drugs, etc. that you now get with your policy?
Have you compared all the numbers in the policy you have today with the policy you had back then? Or are you only looking at the price (and not the price, but the portion of the price that you pay vs. your employer.)
Inflation is only one of many reasons health care costs are rising.
[quote]The cost of education when I (delayed) graduated was about 5k a year for my state school in 1994. Today I am figuring about 3-4 times that amount for my daughter.[/quote]
Yup. So if your daughter goes to college 30 years after you did, and the cost is 4x as much, that means the annualized inflation rate for education is about 4.7% A little high, but not outrageous.
And just like health care, there are many reasons the price of state operated education is changing. There’s much more to it than just simple inflation.
But ending the Fed will fix everything.[/quote]
pri-dk
As far as healthcare expenses go, my provider is exactly the same -Kaiser. My coPay actually went from $15 to $25 per visit.
My daughters first year of college will be on 2014. So that is 20 years not 30. I know that’s weird but I went into USMC after H.S.
I have worked for the same firm for 17 years.
I think the cost of some things in my life have come down but lots and llots has gone up like water and gas. yuck.
Btw Ron Paul thinks that ending the fed will decrease the inflation for lots of reasons but as far as education the logic goes roughly like this.
When the government gets into the education business, the suppliers have a steady, and increasing source of demand. This is because the government is always flush with cash and sending more students their way. Espeically with the fed backstopping their every move. In other words, our representatives do not have to raise taxes to add more government service. We never directly voted to increase the Governements involovment in education. The Fed just prints the money and the Treasury issues debt. That is why we have such huge debt. No hard decisions have had to be made. Every Congressman just gets enough pork sent to their district to get respected and reelected. The absolute best example that I can conjure is that Prez. Bush supported “no child left behind” which threw lots of $$ at education, while traditionally Republicans have been for abolishing the Department of Education. No wonder we had such great “bipartisenship”.
If there were no Fed the congress would have to choose between WARS and welfare. Becasue they would have to either raise new taxes or cut some other service. Like in the real world. Now they dont. Now they just tell us how generous they are with our money.Participant[quote=pri_dk]In 1990, I bought a brand new Honda Accord LX for $16K.
Today they cost about $22K. And they are much better cars.
They have loaves of fresh bread at WalMart for a buck fifty. My kids love that stuff.
Although Legos seem to be more expensive now – but they’ve changed.
I make a lot more money today than I did in 1990 – like several times more.
This inflation thing doesn’t seem so bad.[/quote]
pri_dk
I paid $76/per pay period for health care 1997. Today that is $238 per pay period. I work for the same company and I have the same number of dependants and I have Kaiser since 1997. When the company contribution changed in 2003 I was at $157 per pay period. The cost of education when I (delayed) graduated was about 5k a year for my state school in 1994. Today I am figuring about 3-4 times that amount for my daughter. When I bought my house in 92008 I paid $109/per sq foot, my purchase in 92010 (not as nice imho) in August 2011 was at $257.46. My income has gone up about 300% since 1997 but not my after tax income. Gas was 1.29 in 1999 today it is 3.73. That is a 146% rise.
However my first apple computer purchased in 1992 was $2500 and it has 4mb ram 4mb in hard drive (mb not gb!).I am just sharing info….
ParticipantArraya,
When I get depressed I sometimes think just like that. And who knows you may be right but i can only hope that this is not right. Because if the vote wonft fix it we are in for very very horrific times.ParticipantArraya,
“Bat shit Insane”
Websters dictionary:
Seeking getting out of debt by incurring more debt…..True definition….look it up.
I am lying of course but another definition could be:
Listening for a solution from the same Fed chairman today, who told us in July of 2008 that we were not in a recession.
Or the very same Chairman who said that Fannie and Freddie would be “just fine”
Or listening to his predecessor who actually wrote papers endorsing the notion that real estate values in the US had little to no down side.Not listening to people who got it right is truly “BAT SHIT INSANE”.
That is everyone else definition……ParticipantDomoArigato
This happened last week at my house. Tell me what you think.
I show up at my house one evening with a brand new Lexus,I threw $100k of gold jewelry on the dining room table, and told my wife that I had arranged for all new appliances and furniture to be delivered the next day. I told her that i just loved her and Timmy so much that they deserved the best!You would think that she would be happy But instead her face got kinda screwy and contorted and she started to ask me all of these questions.
She asked me if we had won the lottery, even though she knows that my position on that topic is that only poor ignorant people play the lottery. She asked me if we have any rich relatives that she did not know about. Of course not it’s always been just she and I, I gently reminded her. (At this point I started to think that she may be getting a little senile). She proceeded with so many questions like didn’t I remember that we were barley able to save in out 401k and that Timmy’s college fund was still woefully short. That our savings account was so short that we had decided not to go to Vegas last Christmas.God, when did she turn in to so much of a crackpot, I asked myself?
I sat her down. I could not believe she was being so dense. But she has always needed these little things explained to her. I told her: ” you deserve the best, and all these things are now yours!”
She sobbed and said, ” But how can we afford them?” Ha. What a relief, I thought that she may be depressed and not be feeling worthy, what a relief I felt then!!!
Honey, that’s easy, ” I just maxed out all our credit cards…..you must have forgot that we have outstanding credit!”
I would love to tell you that solved what as I can only describe as her new mental illness but this seemed to make her feel worse. Again, I tried to explain…..honey we may be stretched a bit but if the monthly payments get a little too high we simply we ask for a higher credit limit. She told me the stupidest thing….that one day they may tell us that we can not have more credit. Can you believe her? I then let her know that I could just move to another credit card company. This did not have the effect on her that I had planned. SHE TURNED INTO AN OLD COOT right in front of my eyes. I swear that her eyebrows got bushier in an instant.
Domo….I have decided to get a divorce. I can’t live with this old bag anymore….she is just to darn short sighted.
By the way I had to rent a new place and need 5k for a deposit. Can you give me a loan?, I know how gracious you are and I just don’t think I deserve to have to fill out all Of those nosey banker forms that they want to make me fill out to get a loan throuh them. They just do not understand that you and I deserve so much more. I guess you would agree you and I deserve each other. Thanks BRO.Participant[And Paul was right on his prediction of the bubble. He was dead wrong on the cause.
SK please explain this statement? How was RP dead wrong?
Participant[quote=CONCHO][quote=aldante]
Concho,Since you seem to believe its all a waste anyway, I will ask you for your vote for Dr. Paul. Since we are all going down, why not do me this favor?[/quote]
No prob, will do. I was gonna write in Zod but I’ll vote for Paul in the primary, just like I did in 2008. Hopefully Zod will have mercy on me for this transgression and not destroy me with his laser beam eyes or crush me like a walnut in his incredibly strong grip.[/quote]
Concho,
I knew you were the MAN!Participant[quote=CONCHO][quote=markmax33][quote=CONCHO]Ron Paul, Shmon Paul — General Zod has freaking LASER BEAM EYES. He wouldn’t have had to wuss out and send the military to go kill Osama Bin Laden, he could’ve just flown over there himself and fried the old goon like an egg.
General Zod 2012![/quote]
Ron Paul could beat general Zod while delivering twins and drinking a Dos Equis. He is the most intersting man in the world I would take a bullet for him.[/quote]
Dr. Paul is pretty awesome, I have to agree. Unfortunately the average IQ of the US is just over room temperature. Americans, in general, don’t like fancy talk about economic theory, they want to see government checks in their mailboxes, s*** gettin’ blowed up real good in foreign countries on Fox News, and UFC on ESPN. And most of the 5-10% with triple-digit IQs are simply content to watch Jon Stewart or Bill Maher and giggle while hoping that the government will raise taxes on “the rich” (e.g., everyone who makes or has more money than them.) So I am predicting more of the same in 2012 and beyond.[/quote]
Concho,
Since you seem to believe its all a waste anyway, I will ask you for your vote for Dr. Paul. Since we are all going down, why not do me this favor?
Participant[quote=Nor-LA-SD-GUY2]Flat currency I always heard Ron Paul was for a flat currency, (forgive me if I am wrong about that),
It’s just I don’t want to repay China with Gold (or anyone else for that matter),
We are a little like Greece you know.
we will be needing to inflate our way out of this mess fairly soon. (mostly it’s the fixed income with no debt crowd that likes this flat currency Idea).
Really we don’t need anything from China or the middle east for that matter so I don’t worry about them not taking our money.[/quote]
This is an excellent question and would undermine the entire Ron Paul plan – if his plan were to move to a gold based currency. His plan is to allow for competeing currencies. He wants people to be able to decide how to get paid. Right now gold and silver are taxable if you buy or sell them which makes them impractial for use as currency.
The Chinese own our Treasury Bonds which are redeemable in American dollars….not gold. If gold were allowed as a currency you and I could transact in whatever medium we wished and the Chinese would get paid in currency. -
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