[aldante]

1:They feel they are being taxed unfairly (hence the cheesy borrowing from the sons of liberty)

2:They are usually, though not exclusively, critical of current government spending practices

3:They oppose “wealth redistribution” (see 1 and 2).

4:They are disillusioned at the current lineup of of government decision-makers

Is this set of common characteristics inaccurate?
[quote=aldante]People like me did not lose an election – we believe that our country is being lost. [/quote]I get that the government is doing things you don’t like.
If you really have the courage of your convictions and if you feel that the president is destroying the country, then for fuck’s sake do something other than rip off a legitimate revolution. Load a truck with explosives or storm the capital or rape Hank Greenberg’s dog or something.

Or you can admit you are just like every other American and vote.[/quote]

Urban,
The topic is whether or not healthcare is a right. I did not see anything that you wrote telling us why you think it is a right. You are way far a field. I think another thread on what the Constitution movement or the tea party movement would be appropriate.

You are welcome to look at campaignforliberty.com for information as well. My view is that the lack of solidarity is more a symptom of any new movement. The ideas that you listed are part of those ideas. The problem is that any neo-con who benefited from the big government is trying to foist his/her identity on this movement and any identiy crisis is from the outside – not the inside. It is a new movement and the degree to which it takes hold is the degree to which people want tostand up for thier freedom.

I do an am. Voting is only a small part of the equation. Getting candidates who truely represent the freedom movement is the hardest and takes the longest.

Still hoping to convert you.

[aldante]

1:They feel they are being taxed unfairly (hence the cheesy borrowing from the sons of liberty)

2:They are usually, though not exclusively, critical of current government spending practices

3:They oppose “wealth redistribution” (see 1 and 2).

4:They are disillusioned at the current lineup of of government decision-makers

Is this set of common characteristics inaccurate?
[quote=aldante]People like me did not lose an election – we believe that our country is being lost. [/quote]I get that the government is doing things you don’t like.
If you really have the courage of your convictions and if you feel that the president is destroying the country, then for fuck’s sake do something other than rip off a legitimate revolution. Load a truck with explosives or storm the capital or rape Hank Greenberg’s dog or something.

Or you can admit you are just like every other American and vote.[/quote]

Urban,
The topic is whether or not healthcare is a right. I did not see anything that you wrote telling us why you think it is a right. You are way far a field. I think another thread on what the Constitution movement or the tea party movement would be appropriate.

You are welcome to look at campaignforliberty.com for information as well. My view is that the lack of solidarity is more a symptom of any new movement. The ideas that you listed are part of those ideas. The problem is that any neo-con who benefited from the big government is trying to foist his/her identity on this movement and any identiy crisis is from the outside – not the inside. It is a new movement and the degree to which it takes hold is the degree to which people want tostand up for thier freedom.

I do an am. Voting is only a small part of the equation. Getting candidates who truely represent the freedom movement is the hardest and takes the longest.

Still hoping to convert you.

[aldante]

1:They feel they are being taxed unfairly (hence the cheesy borrowing from the sons of liberty)

2:They are usually, though not exclusively, critical of current government spending practices

3:They oppose “wealth redistribution” (see 1 and 2).

4:They are disillusioned at the current lineup of of government decision-makers

Is this set of common characteristics inaccurate?
[quote=aldante]People like me did not lose an election – we believe that our country is being lost. [/quote]I get that the government is doing things you don’t like.
If you really have the courage of your convictions and if you feel that the president is destroying the country, then for fuck’s sake do something other than rip off a legitimate revolution. Load a truck with explosives or storm the capital or rape Hank Greenberg’s dog or something.

Or you can admit you are just like every other American and vote.[/quote]

Urban,
The topic is whether or not healthcare is a right. I did not see anything that you wrote telling us why you think it is a right. You are way far a field. I think another thread on what the Constitution movement or the tea party movement would be appropriate.

You are welcome to look at campaignforliberty.com for information as well. My view is that the lack of solidarity is more a symptom of any new movement. The ideas that you listed are part of those ideas. The problem is that any neo-con who benefited from the big government is trying to foist his/her identity on this movement and any identiy crisis is from the outside – not the inside. It is a new movement and the degree to which it takes hold is the degree to which people want tostand up for thier freedom.

I do an am. Voting is only a small part of the equation. Getting candidates who truely represent the freedom movement is the hardest and takes the longest.

Still hoping to convert you.

[aldante]

[quote=urbanrealtor][quote=aldante][quote=urbanrealtor]The teabaggers are just complaining that they lost an election and that the current elected legislators are doing things they don’t like.[/quote]

Not my reason for going to the tea party events……sorry to be outside your understanding.

The only difference between Bush and Obama is in how many zero’s they add to the deficit. The tea party movement (at least the people I know) disagree with either president’s right to govern in the manner that they are governing. One small example is being in war for eight years without a declaration of war. Or being able to invade citizens privacy (‘Patriot Act”) without changing the Constitution. Or how about letting a group of secret elitist (the Fed) throw this economy into fits and starts which has demolished this countrys middle class.[/quote]
How does this fit outside my understanding?

You are complaining about what the people you elected are doing.

BFD

I respect your rights on this but it still is just a complaint.

You still have the right to vote and complain about who gets elected and what they do.

Not exactly the makings of a revolution.

If you start declaring independence from the US I might change my opinion.[/quote]

Urban,
I am pretty bad at explaining can I try again?

I think a big part of the tea party movement believes opposite of what you are asserting. Since there is not a dogma there are many people in the movement – we all do not protest the same thing. People like me did not lose an election – we believe that our country is being lost. Unfortunately, reading this thread makes me think that is already gone: healthcare a right? the constitution a relic? Then what do we stand for mob rule? Do you realize that after WWII we helped rebuild Europe for $5billion? We gave one company $300 billion and another company $160 billion?

WE are being robbed by the governing class who are giving fat paydays to their buddies from the Ivy League. Healthcare is the “cake” that the population “gets as a Christmas gift”.

Who here gives a christmas gift to someone then tells the reciepient they have to pay for it now and the present comes 4 years later???????

Declare independence? Why? Its our country. The country is being stolen by a group of oligarchs who view themselves as better then you or I. This is specifically why the Constitution is not only relevant but the document we should look too for hope. That document is worth fighting for.

Revolution? I hope not. Changing the “cake”mentality God I hope so. The state does not have the right to our property. We give our property to the state to justly protect our rights.

[aldante]

[quote=urbanrealtor][quote=aldante][quote=urbanrealtor]The teabaggers are just complaining that they lost an election and that the current elected legislators are doing things they don’t like.[/quote]

Not my reason for going to the tea party events……sorry to be outside your understanding.

The only difference between Bush and Obama is in how many zero’s they add to the deficit. The tea party movement (at least the people I know) disagree with either president’s right to govern in the manner that they are governing. One small example is being in war for eight years without a declaration of war. Or being able to invade citizens privacy (‘Patriot Act”) without changing the Constitution. Or how about letting a group of secret elitist (the Fed) throw this economy into fits and starts which has demolished this countrys middle class.[/quote]
How does this fit outside my understanding?

You are complaining about what the people you elected are doing.

BFD

I respect your rights on this but it still is just a complaint.

You still have the right to vote and complain about who gets elected and what they do.

Not exactly the makings of a revolution.

If you start declaring independence from the US I might change my opinion.[/quote]

Urban,
I am pretty bad at explaining can I try again?

I think a big part of the tea party movement believes opposite of what you are asserting. Since there is not a dogma there are many people in the movement – we all do not protest the same thing. People like me did not lose an election – we believe that our country is being lost. Unfortunately, reading this thread makes me think that is already gone: healthcare a right? the constitution a relic? Then what do we stand for mob rule? Do you realize that after WWII we helped rebuild Europe for $5billion? We gave one company $300 billion and another company $160 billion?

WE are being robbed by the governing class who are giving fat paydays to their buddies from the Ivy League. Healthcare is the “cake” that the population “gets as a Christmas gift”.

Who here gives a christmas gift to someone then tells the reciepient they have to pay for it now and the present comes 4 years later???????

Declare independence? Why? Its our country. The country is being stolen by a group of oligarchs who view themselves as better then you or I. This is specifically why the Constitution is not only relevant but the document we should look too for hope. That document is worth fighting for.

Revolution? I hope not. Changing the “cake”mentality God I hope so. The state does not have the right to our property. We give our property to the state to justly protect our rights.

[aldante]

[quote=urbanrealtor][quote=aldante][quote=urbanrealtor]The teabaggers are just complaining that they lost an election and that the current elected legislators are doing things they don’t like.[/quote]

Not my reason for going to the tea party events……sorry to be outside your understanding.

The only difference between Bush and Obama is in how many zero’s they add to the deficit. The tea party movement (at least the people I know) disagree with either president’s right to govern in the manner that they are governing. One small example is being in war for eight years without a declaration of war. Or being able to invade citizens privacy (‘Patriot Act”) without changing the Constitution. Or how about letting a group of secret elitist (the Fed) throw this economy into fits and starts which has demolished this countrys middle class.[/quote]
How does this fit outside my understanding?

You are complaining about what the people you elected are doing.

BFD

I respect your rights on this but it still is just a complaint.

You still have the right to vote and complain about who gets elected and what they do.

Not exactly the makings of a revolution.

If you start declaring independence from the US I might change my opinion.[/quote]

Urban,
I am pretty bad at explaining can I try again?

I think a big part of the tea party movement believes opposite of what you are asserting. Since there is not a dogma there are many people in the movement – we all do not protest the same thing. People like me did not lose an election – we believe that our country is being lost. Unfortunately, reading this thread makes me think that is already gone: healthcare a right? the constitution a relic? Then what do we stand for mob rule? Do you realize that after WWII we helped rebuild Europe for $5billion? We gave one company $300 billion and another company $160 billion?

WE are being robbed by the governing class who are giving fat paydays to their buddies from the Ivy League. Healthcare is the “cake” that the population “gets as a Christmas gift”.

Who here gives a christmas gift to someone then tells the reciepient they have to pay for it now and the present comes 4 years later???????

Declare independence? Why? Its our country. The country is being stolen by a group of oligarchs who view themselves as better then you or I. This is specifically why the Constitution is not only relevant but the document we should look too for hope. That document is worth fighting for.

Revolution? I hope not. Changing the “cake”mentality God I hope so. The state does not have the right to our property. We give our property to the state to justly protect our rights.

[aldante]

[quote=urbanrealtor][quote=aldante][quote=urbanrealtor]The teabaggers are just complaining that they lost an election and that the current elected legislators are doing things they don’t like.[/quote]

Not my reason for going to the tea party events……sorry to be outside your understanding.

The only difference between Bush and Obama is in how many zero’s they add to the deficit. The tea party movement (at least the people I know) disagree with either president’s right to govern in the manner that they are governing. One small example is being in war for eight years without a declaration of war. Or being able to invade citizens privacy (‘Patriot Act”) without changing the Constitution. Or how about letting a group of secret elitist (the Fed) throw this economy into fits and starts which has demolished this countrys middle class.[/quote]
How does this fit outside my understanding?

You are complaining about what the people you elected are doing.

BFD

I respect your rights on this but it still is just a complaint.

You still have the right to vote and complain about who gets elected and what they do.

Not exactly the makings of a revolution.

If you start declaring independence from the US I might change my opinion.[/quote]

Urban,
I am pretty bad at explaining can I try again?

I think a big part of the tea party movement believes opposite of what you are asserting. Since there is not a dogma there are many people in the movement – we all do not protest the same thing. People like me did not lose an election – we believe that our country is being lost. Unfortunately, reading this thread makes me think that is already gone: healthcare a right? the constitution a relic? Then what do we stand for mob rule? Do you realize that after WWII we helped rebuild Europe for $5billion? We gave one company $300 billion and another company $160 billion?

WE are being robbed by the governing class who are giving fat paydays to their buddies from the Ivy League. Healthcare is the “cake” that the population “gets as a Christmas gift”.

Who here gives a christmas gift to someone then tells the reciepient they have to pay for it now and the present comes 4 years later???????

Declare independence? Why? Its our country. The country is being stolen by a group of oligarchs who view themselves as better then you or I. This is specifically why the Constitution is not only relevant but the document we should look too for hope. That document is worth fighting for.

Revolution? I hope not. Changing the “cake”mentality God I hope so. The state does not have the right to our property. We give our property to the state to justly protect our rights.

[aldante]

[quote=urbanrealtor][quote=aldante][quote=urbanrealtor]The teabaggers are just complaining that they lost an election and that the current elected legislators are doing things they don’t like.[/quote]

Not my reason for going to the tea party events……sorry to be outside your understanding.

The only difference between Bush and Obama is in how many zero’s they add to the deficit. The tea party movement (at least the people I know) disagree with either president’s right to govern in the manner that they are governing. One small example is being in war for eight years without a declaration of war. Or being able to invade citizens privacy (‘Patriot Act”) without changing the Constitution. Or how about letting a group of secret elitist (the Fed) throw this economy into fits and starts which has demolished this countrys middle class.[/quote]
How does this fit outside my understanding?

You are complaining about what the people you elected are doing.

BFD

I respect your rights on this but it still is just a complaint.

You still have the right to vote and complain about who gets elected and what they do.

Not exactly the makings of a revolution.

If you start declaring independence from the US I might change my opinion.[/quote]

Urban,
I am pretty bad at explaining can I try again?

I think a big part of the tea party movement believes opposite of what you are asserting. Since there is not a dogma there are many people in the movement – we all do not protest the same thing. People like me did not lose an election – we believe that our country is being lost. Unfortunately, reading this thread makes me think that is already gone: healthcare a right? the constitution a relic? Then what do we stand for mob rule? Do you realize that after WWII we helped rebuild Europe for $5billion? We gave one company $300 billion and another company $160 billion?

WE are being robbed by the governing class who are giving fat paydays to their buddies from the Ivy League. Healthcare is the “cake” that the population “gets as a Christmas gift”.

Who here gives a christmas gift to someone then tells the reciepient they have to pay for it now and the present comes 4 years later???????

Declare independence? Why? Its our country. The country is being stolen by a group of oligarchs who view themselves as better then you or I. This is specifically why the Constitution is not only relevant but the document we should look too for hope. That document is worth fighting for.

Revolution? I hope not. Changing the “cake”mentality God I hope so. The state does not have the right to our property. We give our property to the state to justly protect our rights.

[aldante]

Police, fire departments, defense, and a justice system are services that are provided by a government and justify whether or not a government should continue to exist. If a government is not good at protecting people that government, naturally will eventually be displaced. It goes to the basic reason of why we have all “agreed” to live in society. Healthcare simply extends the idea of what a government should do. It is not a right.
So much of the debate is being driven by people with an agenda – misdirecting ignorant people. For instance if I can engage you in a debate about the “right” of healthcare then I am deflecting the cost of what that means.
A government must take from its citizens to exist. When the government takes too much from too many that govenment will cease to exist. That is why I believe that true Americans do not want the government to take on the healthcare task. Government must be percieved as fair by most people it governs in order to exist. That is why I think those opposed see that healthcare can not be distributed fairly: rich people will get everything they need, but the middle class will get worse care that takes longer then it is now. The best analogy that I can muster is what happens when a school district is terrible. The rich just send their kids to private school while the middle class gets taxed higher and the education keeps going down.

So healthcare is not a right. It is what everyone wants. We all want a couple of million $$ but that is not our right. A right can not be defined as something that must be taken from someone else. My personal liberty and right to speak my mind does not take your liberty away unless I decide to take a bull horn to your bedroom. My right to defend myself does not interfear with your life. If my right is to have healthcare then that means you have to pay for me. That would be nice until I have to pay for you.

If you call yourself an American you should know that our Constitution describes our rights. Our Constitution was put in place to defend this contrys citizens from exactly what is happening right now with healthcare, banking fiasco and war mongering.

To all you “pragmatists” pay attention. Our elected officals have become a governing class. Their main focus is how to get re-elected. Condider their health package compared to what they passed for us average “Americans” The are using my (and yours)tax dollars to do get re-elected. The way they are using them is to give them to someone else. The degree to which they are starting to do that is beginning to get infringe on my freedom. I do not want them to do that. If you believe that half the people in Congress give think more about healthcare for others then themselves then we disagree. But simply electing a new person will not help becasue our system is broken to the point that there appears to be legitimate questions as to what rights are and are not. We are in a world of deep trouble. It took 300 years to build this up…my guess 30 years to tear it down. We will have a couple of big wars to try and protect what we think we deserve but we are just the latest bully on the block.

Oh and whoever that person is who said that our Constitution is null and void becasue times have changed and there is no such thing as inaliable rights – I hope you get fasely accused of a crime (or your property confiscated)and get thown in frigging prison – you idiot.

[aldante]

Police, fire departments, defense, and a justice system are services that are provided by a government and justify whether or not a government should continue to exist. If a government is not good at protecting people that government, naturally will eventually be displaced. It goes to the basic reason of why we have all “agreed” to live in society. Healthcare simply extends the idea of what a government should do. It is not a right.
So much of the debate is being driven by people with an agenda – misdirecting ignorant people. For instance if I can engage you in a debate about the “right” of healthcare then I am deflecting the cost of what that means.
A government must take from its citizens to exist. When the government takes too much from too many that govenment will cease to exist. That is why I believe that true Americans do not want the government to take on the healthcare task. Government must be percieved as fair by most people it governs in order to exist. That is why I think those opposed see that healthcare can not be distributed fairly: rich people will get everything they need, but the middle class will get worse care that takes longer then it is now. The best analogy that I can muster is what happens when a school district is terrible. The rich just send their kids to private school while the middle class gets taxed higher and the education keeps going down.

So healthcare is not a right. It is what everyone wants. We all want a couple of million $$ but that is not our right. A right can not be defined as something that must be taken from someone else. My personal liberty and right to speak my mind does not take your liberty away unless I decide to take a bull horn to your bedroom. My right to defend myself does not interfear with your life. If my right is to have healthcare then that means you have to pay for me. That would be nice until I have to pay for you.

If you call yourself an American you should know that our Constitution describes our rights. Our Constitution was put in place to defend this contrys citizens from exactly what is happening right now with healthcare, banking fiasco and war mongering.

To all you “pragmatists” pay attention. Our elected officals have become a governing class. Their main focus is how to get re-elected. Condider their health package compared to what they passed for us average “Americans” The are using my (and yours)tax dollars to do get re-elected. The way they are using them is to give them to someone else. The degree to which they are starting to do that is beginning to get infringe on my freedom. I do not want them to do that. If you believe that half the people in Congress give think more about healthcare for others then themselves then we disagree. But simply electing a new person will not help becasue our system is broken to the point that there appears to be legitimate questions as to what rights are and are not. We are in a world of deep trouble. It took 300 years to build this up…my guess 30 years to tear it down. We will have a couple of big wars to try and protect what we think we deserve but we are just the latest bully on the block.

Oh and whoever that person is who said that our Constitution is null and void becasue times have changed and there is no such thing as inaliable rights – I hope you get fasely accused of a crime (or your property confiscated)and get thown in frigging prison – you idiot.

[aldante]

Police, fire departments, defense, and a justice system are services that are provided by a government and justify whether or not a government should continue to exist. If a government is not good at protecting people that government, naturally will eventually be displaced. It goes to the basic reason of why we have all “agreed” to live in society. Healthcare simply extends the idea of what a government should do. It is not a right.
So much of the debate is being driven by people with an agenda – misdirecting ignorant people. For instance if I can engage you in a debate about the “right” of healthcare then I am deflecting the cost of what that means.
A government must take from its citizens to exist. When the government takes too much from too many that govenment will cease to exist. That is why I believe that true Americans do not want the government to take on the healthcare task. Government must be percieved as fair by most people it governs in order to exist. That is why I think those opposed see that healthcare can not be distributed fairly: rich people will get everything they need, but the middle class will get worse care that takes longer then it is now. The best analogy that I can muster is what happens when a school district is terrible. The rich just send their kids to private school while the middle class gets taxed higher and the education keeps going down.

So healthcare is not a right. It is what everyone wants. We all want a couple of million $$ but that is not our right. A right can not be defined as something that must be taken from someone else. My personal liberty and right to speak my mind does not take your liberty away unless I decide to take a bull horn to your bedroom. My right to defend myself does not interfear with your life. If my right is to have healthcare then that means you have to pay for me. That would be nice until I have to pay for you.

If you call yourself an American you should know that our Constitution describes our rights. Our Constitution was put in place to defend this contrys citizens from exactly what is happening right now with healthcare, banking fiasco and war mongering.

To all you “pragmatists” pay attention. Our elected officals have become a governing class. Their main focus is how to get re-elected. Condider their health package compared to what they passed for us average “Americans” The are using my (and yours)tax dollars to do get re-elected. The way they are using them is to give them to someone else. The degree to which they are starting to do that is beginning to get infringe on my freedom. I do not want them to do that. If you believe that half the people in Congress give think more about healthcare for others then themselves then we disagree. But simply electing a new person will not help becasue our system is broken to the point that there appears to be legitimate questions as to what rights are and are not. We are in a world of deep trouble. It took 300 years to build this up…my guess 30 years to tear it down. We will have a couple of big wars to try and protect what we think we deserve but we are just the latest bully on the block.

Oh and whoever that person is who said that our Constitution is null and void becasue times have changed and there is no such thing as inaliable rights – I hope you get fasely accused of a crime (or your property confiscated)and get thown in frigging prison – you idiot.

[aldante]

Police, fire departments, defense, and a justice system are services that are provided by a government and justify whether or not a government should continue to exist. If a government is not good at protecting people that government, naturally will eventually be displaced. It goes to the basic reason of why we have all “agreed” to live in society. Healthcare simply extends the idea of what a government should do. It is not a right.
So much of the debate is being driven by people with an agenda – misdirecting ignorant people. For instance if I can engage you in a debate about the “right” of healthcare then I am deflecting the cost of what that means.
A government must take from its citizens to exist. When the government takes too much from too many that govenment will cease to exist. That is why I believe that true Americans do not want the government to take on the healthcare task. Government must be percieved as fair by most people it governs in order to exist. That is why I think those opposed see that healthcare can not be distributed fairly: rich people will get everything they need, but the middle class will get worse care that takes longer then it is now. The best analogy that I can muster is what happens when a school district is terrible. The rich just send their kids to private school while the middle class gets taxed higher and the education keeps going down.

So healthcare is not a right. It is what everyone wants. We all want a couple of million $$ but that is not our right. A right can not be defined as something that must be taken from someone else. My personal liberty and right to speak my mind does not take your liberty away unless I decide to take a bull horn to your bedroom. My right to defend myself does not interfear with your life. If my right is to have healthcare then that means you have to pay for me. That would be nice until I have to pay for you.

If you call yourself an American you should know that our Constitution describes our rights. Our Constitution was put in place to defend this contrys citizens from exactly what is happening right now with healthcare, banking fiasco and war mongering.

To all you “pragmatists” pay attention. Our elected officals have become a governing class. Their main focus is how to get re-elected. Condider their health package compared to what they passed for us average “Americans” The are using my (and yours)tax dollars to do get re-elected. The way they are using them is to give them to someone else. The degree to which they are starting to do that is beginning to get infringe on my freedom. I do not want them to do that. If you believe that half the people in Congress give think more about healthcare for others then themselves then we disagree. But simply electing a new person will not help becasue our system is broken to the point that there appears to be legitimate questions as to what rights are and are not. We are in a world of deep trouble. It took 300 years to build this up…my guess 30 years to tear it down. We will have a couple of big wars to try and protect what we think we deserve but we are just the latest bully on the block.

Oh and whoever that person is who said that our Constitution is null and void becasue times have changed and there is no such thing as inaliable rights – I hope you get fasely accused of a crime (or your property confiscated)and get thown in frigging prison – you idiot.

[aldante]

Police, fire departments, defense, and a justice system are services that are provided by a government and justify whether or not a government should continue to exist. If a government is not good at protecting people that government, naturally will eventually be displaced. It goes to the basic reason of why we have all “agreed” to live in society. Healthcare simply extends the idea of what a government should do. It is not a right.
So much of the debate is being driven by people with an agenda – misdirecting ignorant people. For instance if I can engage you in a debate about the “right” of healthcare then I am deflecting the cost of what that means.
A government must take from its citizens to exist. When the government takes too much from too many that govenment will cease to exist. That is why I believe that true Americans do not want the government to take on the healthcare task. Government must be percieved as fair by most people it governs in order to exist. That is why I think those opposed see that healthcare can not be distributed fairly: rich people will get everything they need, but the middle class will get worse care that takes longer then it is now. The best analogy that I can muster is what happens when a school district is terrible. The rich just send their kids to private school while the middle class gets taxed higher and the education keeps going down.

So healthcare is not a right. It is what everyone wants. We all want a couple of million $$ but that is not our right. A right can not be defined as something that must be taken from someone else. My personal liberty and right to speak my mind does not take your liberty away unless I decide to take a bull horn to your bedroom. My right to defend myself does not interfear with your life. If my right is to have healthcare then that means you have to pay for me. That would be nice until I have to pay for you.

If you call yourself an American you should know that our Constitution describes our rights. Our Constitution was put in place to defend this contrys citizens from exactly what is happening right now with healthcare, banking fiasco and war mongering.

To all you “pragmatists” pay attention. Our elected officals have become a governing class. Their main focus is how to get re-elected. Condider their health package compared to what they passed for us average “Americans” The are using my (and yours)tax dollars to do get re-elected. The way they are using them is to give them to someone else. The degree to which they are starting to do that is beginning to get infringe on my freedom. I do not want them to do that. If you believe that half the people in Congress give think more about healthcare for others then themselves then we disagree. But simply electing a new person will not help becasue our system is broken to the point that there appears to be legitimate questions as to what rights are and are not. We are in a world of deep trouble. It took 300 years to build this up…my guess 30 years to tear it down. We will have a couple of big wars to try and protect what we think we deserve but we are just the latest bully on the block.

Oh and whoever that person is who said that our Constitution is null and void becasue times have changed and there is no such thing as inaliable rights – I hope you get fasely accused of a crime (or your property confiscated)and get thown in frigging prison – you idiot.

[aldante]

[quote=PDQ][quote=NeetaT]In my opinion, healthcare is not a right. Healthcare is a service that is priced via supply and demand just like other goods and services. No one will ever agree with me, but I know that if there was no such thing as health insurance, prices for health services would adjust to average income, thus more people could afford it out of pocket. Those who claim they can’t afford healthcare costs are the same people who can somehow find a way to buy a new car or go on a lavish vacation. All I can say is please “Kill the Bill” so that I am not fleeced for more taxes. I will gladly pay for my own healthcare thank you.[/quote]

Let me guess: You have insurance supplied by your employer and/or you have no health issues, right?

Were you older with heart disease or some other “pre-existing condition” that rendered health insurance unaffordable you might feel differently.

Hopefully when you grow up and have a family you won’t have any children with health problems either. Having to fight for coverage for a child born with a health condition is no fun.

But I’m sure you’re young, buff and vital so that’s no issue for you. Be sure to marry well to someone else who’s young, strong and healthy. And if any of your children appear to be defective while in the womb, just abort them. The “master race” and all.

Oh…did I mention that you couldn’t have any pre-existing conditions like injuries from skiing, or athletic activities? If you work for a small business (and you sound like a big proponent of self-sufficiency and small business) you won’t be able to get coverage for “pre-existing” conditions. That would mean you’d actually have to pay for your own healthcare!!!!

But I’m sure you already know all of that seeing as how you’re an insurance expert[/quote]

Don’t you know that the only reason that the healthcare companies exist in this form is that their near monoploies were created and continue to be protected by Congress!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
The ignorance on this topic is why we should be taking our time not having this shoved down our throats.

[aldante]

[quote=PDQ][quote=NeetaT]In my opinion, healthcare is not a right. Healthcare is a service that is priced via supply and demand just like other goods and services. No one will ever agree with me, but I know that if there was no such thing as health insurance, prices for health services would adjust to average income, thus more people could afford it out of pocket. Those who claim they can’t afford healthcare costs are the same people who can somehow find a way to buy a new car or go on a lavish vacation. All I can say is please “Kill the Bill” so that I am not fleeced for more taxes. I will gladly pay for my own healthcare thank you.[/quote]

Let me guess: You have insurance supplied by your employer and/or you have no health issues, right?

Were you older with heart disease or some other “pre-existing condition” that rendered health insurance unaffordable you might feel differently.

Hopefully when you grow up and have a family you won’t have any children with health problems either. Having to fight for coverage for a child born with a health condition is no fun.

But I’m sure you’re young, buff and vital so that’s no issue for you. Be sure to marry well to someone else who’s young, strong and healthy. And if any of your children appear to be defective while in the womb, just abort them. The “master race” and all.

Oh…did I mention that you couldn’t have any pre-existing conditions like injuries from skiing, or athletic activities? If you work for a small business (and you sound like a big proponent of self-sufficiency and small business) you won’t be able to get coverage for “pre-existing” conditions. That would mean you’d actually have to pay for your own healthcare!!!!

But I’m sure you already know all of that seeing as how you’re an insurance expert[/quote]

Don’t you know that the only reason that the healthcare companies exist in this form is that their near monoploies were created and continue to be protected by Congress!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
The ignorance on this topic is why we should be taking our time not having this shoved down our throats.

[Author]

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