Younger workers everywhere

[bearishgurl]

[quote=flyer]Everyone has a different life experience, and there really is no right or wrong.

As Boomers, one of our major goals as a couple, and later as a family, was to create financial freedom as early as possible, so we could pursue whatever we considered to be important in life–rather than waiting for a later “retirement” scenario. Investing in real estate at a young age, among other things, enabled us to do so.

We enjoy our home life, and can’t imagine not having a stable home base, but we also enjoy having extreme mobility, which, for us, has worked out to be the best of both worlds.

Regardless of what each of us chooses to do with our lives–everything in this lifetime is temporary–so enjoy it while you can.[/quote]So true, flyer. I never in a million years thought when I was younger that so many of my family members (and longtime friends) would be gone long before I even reached “retirement age.” I feel fortunate to wake up each day and have my health and will continue to do all I can to ensure it continues.

Yes, we also invested in RE at a young age and none of our properties were in anywhere near “perfect” shape when we bought them nor were any of them situated in “perfect” parts of town (if there IS such a thing). But had we not done that hard slog (and had I not showed up for work every day for decades), I wouldn’t be where I am today … with the freedom to travel when I want/need to.

One can’t earn a guaranteed pension in this life if they don’t “show up” for work consistently through all the ups and downs (and politics) over the years.

[millennial]

As a millennial we grew up in an era where the growing majority of households had two working adults; and for the most part not raised by our parents but by daycare providers or no one at all! Personally, I remember walking home at age 6 with my younger sister to an empty house, preparing a PB&J sandwich and either throwing on the TV or jumping on my bike to go play with the neighborhood kids. I miss those days, but as an adult I’ve come to realize that I don’t want to be like my parents. I created children because I want to be with them, want to spend time with them and watch them grow to become responsible adults. For the first time in human history, technology has enabled us to do all of this. Obviously there are some limitations that face-to-face contact cannot replace, but you have to admit that society has become more productive than ever before; our efficiency ratios prove this. For instance, today I’m going to stroll into my office around 10 to say hi to everyone then going to pick up my oldest daughter to head out to go skiing with her all weekend. For her the time we spend as father and daughter is invaluable and one that we will cherish forever. If my office needs to get a hold of me, they know how to reach me. But I work to live and not the other way around.

[FlyerInHi]

[quote=The-Shoveler]
Call me old, But I still think 90% of success is showing up and being there.
[/quote]

That’s the “bullshit” establishment part that millenials hate. I can understand the feeling because “showing up and being there” has nothing to do with pure economics and merit. It’s “establishment” networking and “corrupt” good ol’ boys’ club. I know, it’s the way of the world but it stinks. The establishment keeps on pounding hardwork and merit, so when they pull the “you-need-connections” card, intelligent people can’t help but feel turned-off.

The vast majority of boomers were the first college grads in their family… they were happy for the opportunity to rise with the consumer economy. Millenials are better educated and more philosophical, and less grateful to the establishment.

[The-Shoveler]

This guy seems to be very lucky (maybe in the lucky 5% club).

Anyway I hope when times get tough you are not the first kicked to the curb.

[millennial]

People always have something to complain about. Whether management decides to listen or not is up to them, but smart employers understand that employees are not soldiers (unless they really are) and treat their employees like individuals. If you do this you create more productive and happy employees. Dress codes serve their purpose, but if it does not hurt the workplace and alters my personal freedoms why should it matter? If the person wants to come in for 4 hours a day but still makes me millions a year, why should I care if he’s at home mowing his lawn?
If there is a lull in the workload and you have some free time, why not enjoy it? Be at the office for 3 hours today and enjoy this great SD weather cause tomorrow might be another 12 hour rush. Life is too short to be spending your time in front of a computer, and acting like a drone. Now that we have created amazing technology, we no longer need to be just great workers, but can also be great parents, great sons/daughters, great travelers and just more interesting people. Life and the workplace has definitely changed for the better.

[millennial]

[quote=The-Shoveler]This guy seems to be very lucky (maybe in the lucky 5% club).

Anyway I hope when times get tough you are not the first kicked to the curb.[/quote]

Are you talking about me? You don’t know me, so don’t assume. I don’t know about you, but personally I’ve been through a lot as well. My short career has seen two recessions (2000 and 2008) which has affected my career trajectory immensely. The first .com one happened right after graduating college so no jobs, and after the second I was let go from my only job after 8 years. Luckily I learned to survive by maintaining a debt free lifestyle and apportioning a significant amount of my income to recurring cash flow. I have also learned that a job is just a job and if you’re good you will always have one.

[bearishgurl]

I understand what you’re saying, yamashi1 and FIH. But by being able to walk in on a Friday morning and say “hi” to your coworkers and then leave for skiing (without having it come off your vacation balances), you are trading lifetime job security for an at-will position. I hope you are preparing well for when the time comes that you are out of work and no one will hire you anymore. In spite of advances in technology over the past ~20 years, the working conditions of a “represented gubment employee” are not much different today than they were before the advent of the internet. They still have to “show up” in proper attire (whether that be a uniform or strict dress code) and work a full day or 8 or more hr shift, depending on classification. If they leave early, it will come off their leave balances. This is especially true for employees within agencies which serve the public. These employees will eventually earn a defined benefit pension (although with less generous formulas then in the past but computed on higher salaries) but you won’t. Ditto for medical personnel. In SD, Sharp Healthcare and Scripps Health both offer generous funds-matching retirement pkgs, generous annual leave after a certain number of years of service and lifetime job security but in order to attain these perks for yourself, you have to “show up” each and every day and every time you are called in with 20 mins notice.

Yamashi, the “freedom” you are allowed to take today is coming at a huge cost in my mind which could be the difference between you being able to support yourself when you are eventually hung out to dry from the “hiring pool” …. or not (not sure if you are the sole support of your family). You say here that you have 3 young kids and moved far out into the suburbs (exurbs?) after your third kid was born … but you and your spouse don’t really want to be there. If you don’t mind my asking, why didn’t you just buy a place in the city and raise your kids there?

You stated that when your last kid enters college, you and your spouse are going to sell and beat feet back to the city so you can “enjoy yourselves” again. Well, that’s what I thought 1.5 years ago when my youngest left for college. I wanted to move to a ski-area (S. Lake Tahoe) so I could ski anytime I wanted to and possibly work a PT gig for socialization and grocery/utility money. Even though the housing is still quite reasonably priced up there, I have lots of equity in my home (at least 70%) a steady income and plenty of assets, practically speaking, it’s not as easy to do as I thought. The “math” keeps me in place for the time being as I am still helping my youngest thru college (room & board only). You have THREE kids you may need to put thru college! You have a l-o-o-ong road ahead of you and I hope it all works out for you and you can afford to move back to the city as you envision and life’s surprises don’t get in the way of your goals.

And btw, my kids were NEVER “latchkey kids.” They went to afterschool care thru the 6th grade and then a homework assistance program in 7th grade and transitioned back to extracurricular activities/home in 8th grade. They are far apart in age so my “child-rearing years” spanned a longer period of time than that of most parents.

[end of lecture]

[millennial]

[quote=flyer]There are definitely young people everywhere, and we often wonder where they are all going to work and live–especially if they want to stay in San Diego.

Many articles have revealed that most younger people (especially those raised in CA) will have a very difficult time continuing to live at the level of life their parents provided if and when they leave the nest.

Many, including our kids, have done just fine making the transition (without spending thousands on rent) so there is hope, but we’ve seen an even greater number who have not. It will be interesting to see how all of this develops over time.[/quote]

I think for places like California and NYC the affect will be similar to Japan and Korea where housing has been increasing while wages continue to remain stagnant or decrease. In Japan and Korea, people live with their parents until early to mid 30’s until they can save enough to purchase a home. This will lead to less children/family and a declining aging population. If this happens there will be a plethora of problems, but the housing market should correct itself…think Detroit.

[bearishgurl]

Yamashi, I personally don’t see NYC or CA turning into another Detroit. The conditions which caused Detroit property values to plummet have never existed in NYC or CA and will never exist because their economies are far more diversified than Detroit and the whole of MI ever was.

[FlyerInHi]

BG, I’m in my late 40s but I’m young at heart.

One of my female friends said that I should color my hair because I can still pass for 28, haha… i wish.

Maybe I’m weird, but I don’t take ownership of my generation, job, ethnicity, etc….

I think that millenials are generally smarter (that’s good because we want new generations to be smarter); they are more educated and they view things with healthy skepticism. I like to be around young people because we have to evolve and change with the world. Embrace change, don’t try to keep everything old and static!

[millennial]

[quote=bearishgurl]I understand what you’re saying, yamashi1 and FIH. But by being able to walk in on a Friday morning and say “hi” to your coworkers and then leave for skiing (without having it come off your vacation balances), you are trading lifetime job security for an at-will position. I hope you are preparing well for when the time comes that you are out of work and no one will hire you anymore. [/quote]

I think you’re assuming a lot of things here.
#1 you are assuming that the value I bring is not greater than the cost which is not true;
#2 you assume that I don’t put in my hours, which I obviously do, otherwise I would not be employed and earning a decent living;
#3 you have this pre-notion of “lifetime job security”, which is an obvious fallacy even with government;
#4 you assume that my mindset is due to not ever going through a loss of a job, which is false and is actually a result of losing my job in 2009 and going through hardship.

[quote]In spite of advances in technology over the past ~20 years, the working conditions of a “represented gubment employee” are not much different today than they were before the advent of the internet. They still have to “show up” in proper attire (whether that be a uniform or strict dress code) and work a full day or 8 or more hr shift, depending on classification. If they leave early, it will come off their leave balances. This is especially true for employees within agencies which serve the public. These employees will eventually earn a defined benefit pension (although with less generous formulas then in the past but computed on higher salaries) but you won’t. [/quote]

Can’t speak for government employees, but private sector seems a lot different. My previous employers have offered pensions, but not my current one.

[quote] You say here that you have 3 young kids and moved far out into the suburbs (exurbs?) after your third kid was born … but you and your spouse don’t really want to be there. If you don’t mind my asking, why didn’t you just buy a place in the city and raise your kids there? [/quote]
My wife and I work downtown and I am able to enjoy it, but probably not a great place to raise children. I’m sure that I’m not the only one that feels this way. It seems pretty normal for young professionals to live in the city and move to the suburbs once they start having children. Options for me are sending my kids to private school and living in the city, or moving to the suburbs and going the public route. I chose suburbs cause my wife was a product of private and is not a fan.

[quote] You stated that when your last kid enters college, you and your spouse are going to sell and beat feet back to the city so you can “enjoy yourselves” again. Well, that’s what I thought 1.5 years ago when my youngest left for college. I wanted to move to a ski-area (S. Lake Tahoe) so I could ski anytime I wanted to and possibly work a PT gig for socialization and grocery/utility money. Even though the housing is still quite reasonably priced up there, I have lots of equity in my home (at least 70%) a steady income and plenty of assets, practically speaking, it’s not as easy to do as I thought. The “math” keeps me in place for the time being as I am still helping my youngest thru college (room & board only). You have THREE kids you may need to put thru college! You have a l-o-o-ong road ahead of you and I hope it all works out for you and you can afford to move back to the city as you envision and life’s surprises don’t get in the way of your goals.[/quote]

Yes I will be able to retire and pay for their college. I have 529 plans setup for them that considers inflation. They will be OK. Retirement is dependent on lifestyle and liabilities. When I lost my job in 2009 and had no liabilities I was able to move my family to Maui and pretty much lived the retired lifestyle for about 10 months. It was great, but I was itching to get back to the mainland. So took a job in Santa Barbara and the rest is history.

[quote]And btw, my kids were NEVER “latchkey kids.” They went to afterschool care thru the 6th grade and then a homework assistance program in 7th grade and transitioned back to extracurricular activities/home in 8th grade. They are far apart in age so my “child-rearing years” spanned a longer period of time than that of most parents.[/quote]

I never meant it personally. I’m just speaking for my generation. For the most part, we were the first group to grow up in single parent/dual income households. Latchkey kids/afterschool care became the norm. Because of this, housing prices and sq ft. of homes and mini mcmansions increased exponentially further complicating the problem as single income families were priced out of good areas and therefore dual income became a requirement.

[FlyerInHi]

[quote=bearishgurl]Yamashi, I personally don’t see NYC or CA turning into another Detroit. The conditions which caused Detroit property values to plummet have never existed in NYC or CA and will never exist because their economies are far more diversified than Detroit and the whole of MI ever was.[/quote]

I don’t think NYC and CA will be like Detroit either… But I think he’s only talking about real estate correcting.

I can see CA becoming more like Japan, Korea, Hong Kong, London, Vancouver, etc.. where it’s super expensive to live on the average local salary. That’s what happens when new building is restricted in the face of growing demand.

(Japan is interesting… population in declining. Tokyo prices are increasing but suburban prices are dropping).

[bearishgurl]

Of COURSE, seniority means everything! It DOESN’T MATTER if millenials “think” they are smarter than their superiors because they were “educated” and “know how to dive for data.” They aren’t getting paid as much because they don’t deserve it …. yet. That’s what the “merit system” is in place for.

Imho, millenials would do well not to judge their superiors unless they have actually walked in their shoes. Since they haven’t … and in many cases, don’t want to, they may never find out. They have absolutely no clue the grit it took for them to attain their (lofty or not-so-much) positions they have today. And that’s okay. If Gen Y doesn’t end up vesting for a pension cuz they can’t work exactly the way they want to when they want to, then that’s on them. All their attrition does is create less competition for internal promotional opportunities for the workers who stay 🙂

[millennial]

[quote=bearishgurl]Yamashi, I personally don’t see NYC or CA turning into another Detroit. The conditions which caused Detroit property values to plummet have never existed in NYC or CA and will never exist because their economies are far more diversified than Detroit and the whole of MI ever was.[/quote]

Would you agree that the decline of property values in Detroit has some correlation to population? Would you agree that values of properties are dependent also on supply (absent price ceilings/floors)? If population continues to decline in places like CA, NYC or America due to shrinking population values need to come down, and/ housing supply needs to contract. It will never be as bad as Detroit, as you said due to the job market. But we are really dependent on continued immigration from other countries to continue to prop up the market.

[The-Shoveler]

Only perhaps 5% or so are that talented and respected.

Probably the other 95% or so are not that talented.

Good for you, that’s great.

There were probably about the same percentage of boomers who could do that as well, but they are the few (maybe 5%)

[Author]

Posts