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njtosd.
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August 22, 2016 at 4:33 PM #800797August 22, 2016 at 4:46 PM #800798
Anonymous
Guest[quote=XBoxBoy]Because of the winner take all way the votes are counted.[/quote]
Once again, who’s vote is counted?
This “I don’t vote because the outcome is already determined by voters” logic is pretty nonsensical and even childish.
I respect the people that actually do vote – the ones that make what is seemingly inevitable actually happen.
I vote. I will always vote. If I believe I’m the only one voting for a candidate and millions of others are voting for the other one, I still vote.
I don’t generally get wrapped in patriotism but many people have made incredible sacrifices so that we can vote. The one thing we can do to honor them is to actually exercise that right once a year.
August 22, 2016 at 6:33 PM #800799XBoxBoy
Participant[quote=harvey][quote=XBoxBoy]Because of the winner take all way the votes are counted.[/quote]
Once again, who’s vote is counted?
This “I don’t vote because the outcome is already determined by voters” logic is pretty nonsensical and even childish.
[/quote]
Harvey, not really sure what you’re trying to establish here. I’m merely laying out the facts of the system. I too vote regularly. Haven’t missed a ballot in years. But the way the system is run, is the way the system is run and you calling someone trying to explain the system to you nonsensical and childish doesn’t improve your credibility.
What’s more, in your rant you’re implying that all the candidates and the people who run their campaigns are nonsensical and childish. Take note that neither Donald Trump nor Hillary Clinton will bother to campaign in California. There will be no rallies in San Diego where either of them will bother to attend. The same will be true for LA and San Francisco. Why is that? Because they understand the system, and they understand that California is not in play.
Go back and read what I wrote again, I’m pretty clear that the votes that matter are the votes cast in the swing states.
If you want to argue technicalities: Technically all the votes cast are counted. But once the votes are counted the wishes of the minority are discarded and all of the electoral votes for the entire state of California will go to the candidate who won the most votes. So technically, all the votes are counted, but only some of the votes count. (Those that voted for the candidate that carried the state, the people who vote for the other candidate have their vote turned into a vote for the candidate who carried the state.)
Pointing this out and understanding how the system works is neither childish or nonsensical. (Although arguably the system is nonsensical)
[quote=harvey]I don’t generally get wrapped in patriotism but many people have made incredible sacrifices so that we can vote. The one thing we can do to honor them is to actually exercise that right once a year.[/quote]
I agree, but I would also add another thing we could do to honor those people is to change the system so that everyone’s vote actually mattered equally.
August 22, 2016 at 6:51 PM #800800sdgrrl
ParticipantWow. You are right, I haven’t seen one.
I live in mid-town/Mission Hills, so that doesn’t really surprise me.
Our new place is in Lakeside and I haven’t seen anything political actually.
August 22, 2016 at 7:42 PM #800801GuestPeople confound the rules with how the process plays out in any particular situation. The rules are that every vote does count. Sometimes the process plays out such that at any point in time a vote cast cannot influence the outcome. The process can be longer than a single election.
If a sports team is eliminated from the playoffs halfway through the season because they lost every game, the rest of the games may not “count.” But that does not mean the rules are unfair or should be changed. And the honorable thing to do is play with heart the rest of the season.
August 22, 2016 at 8:18 PM #800802njtosd
Participant[quote=harvey]People confound the rules with how the process plays out in any particular situation. The rules are that every vote does count. Sometimes the process plays out such that at any point in time a vote cast cannot influence the outcome. The process can be longer than a single election.
If a sports team is eliminated from the playoffs halfway through the season because they lost every game, the rest of the games may not “count.” But that does not mean the rules are unfair or should be changed. And the honorable thing to do is play with heart the rest of the season.[/quote]
No one in this thread has said that they don’t vote. That was a conclusion that you jumped to. There is a difference between not voting and having firm belief that your vote won’t affect the outcome. You haven’t cornered the market on patriotism.
August 22, 2016 at 9:33 PM #800803Guest[quote=njtosd]No one in this thread has said that they don’t vote.[/quote]
I never claimed anyone said that here.
[quote]That was a conclusion that you jumped to.[/quote]
Really, where?
I said I disagree with people who don’t vote because they believe it doesn’t matter. I never claimed any specific person does not vote.
[quote]There is a difference between not voting and having firm belief that your vote won’t affect the outcome.[/quote]
Good, I agree. In fact I already said as much.
[quote]You haven’t cornered the market on patriotism.[/quote]
LOL! No kidding!
Thanks for the lame attempt at a personal attack in a post that had no substance whatsoever.
August 22, 2016 at 9:50 PM #800804Participant[quote=harvey][quote=njtosd]No one in this thread has said that they don’t vote.[/quote]
I never claimed anyone said that here.
[quote]That was a conclusion that you jumped to.[/quote]
Really, where?
I said I disagree with people who don’t vote because they believe it doesn’t matter. I never claimed any specific person does not vote.
[quote]There is a difference between not voting and having firm belief that your vote won’t affect the outcome.[/quote]
Good, I agree. In fact I already said as much.
[quote]You haven’t cornered the market on patriotism.[/quote]
LOL! No kidding!
Thanks for the lame attempt at a personal attack in a post that had no substance whatsoever.[/quote]
You’re such a charmer.
August 22, 2016 at 10:28 PM #800805scaredyclassic
ParticipantYour vote definitely counts on legalizing pot. So let’s vote yes on no.
August 23, 2016 at 9:39 AM #800810FlyerInHi
GuestI always vote. Your vote matters down ballot. It’s pathetic how the USA has some of the lowest turnout in the developed world.
Saying that votes don’t matter is a way to discourage young adults who vote little but who should have greater voice in our future. So much for teaching our kids! If you value education, you vote and teach young adults to vote everytime.
August 23, 2016 at 10:21 AM #800813all
Participant[quote=FlyerInHi]I always vote. Your vote matters down ballot. It’s pathetic how the USA has some of the lowest turnout in the developed world.
Saying that votes don’t matter is a way to discourage young adults who vote little but who should have greater voice in our future. So much for teaching our kids! If you value education, you vote and teach young adults to vote everytime.[/quote]
You really believe that the ruling class allows Joe Schmo to pick the most powerful person on earth and the leader of the free world every four years?
August 23, 2016 at 4:03 PM #800824joec
Participant[quote=harvey]
Once again, who’s vote is counted?This “I don’t vote because the outcome is already determined by voters” logic is pretty nonsensical and even childish.
I respect the people that actually do vote – the ones that make what is seemingly inevitable actually happen.
I vote. I will always vote. If I believe I’m the only one voting for a candidate and millions of others are voting for the other one, I still vote.
I don’t generally get wrapped in patriotism but many people have made incredible sacrifices so that we can vote. The one thing we can do to honor them is to actually exercise that right once a year.[/quote]
lol, your lack of understanding of the presidential electoral college definitely points out your ignorance of the matter.
Maybe your comments didn’t come out right in text, but it certainly came out to me as a high and mighty I’m better than you since I vote attitude. At least that’s what I read out of it…
That said, I think most of us will vote for other items on the ballot, just some of us may not for either majority prez candidate since they both are bad IMO.
They are probably historically the most unfavorable in history.
Also, per the last comment, a lot of politics is like a coronation. Like it was uncovered, the dem primary which the dem national committee was supposed to be neutral on, came to be heavily Clinton favoring so it was not a “fair” primary as laid out in how they were supposed to be run.
I’d be happy if both candidates dropped out since having a 3rd or 4th candidate split the votes would just let congress pick and that probably isn’t good neither.
There probably is a reason why so few young people are interested in elections since most people feel there is little they can do and the “machine” just keeps running electing people who are loyal to the establishment…(old boys/girls club)…
August 23, 2016 at 5:29 PM #800827Guest[quote=joec]lol, your lack of understanding of the presidential electoral college definitely points out your ignorance of the matter.
Maybe your comments didn’t come out right in text, but it certainly came out to me as a high and mighty I’m better than you since I vote attitude. At least that’s what I read out of it…
That said, I think most of us will vote for other items on the ballot, just some of us may not for either majority prez candidate since they both are bad IMO.
They are probably historically the most unfavorable in history.
Also, per the last comment, a lot of politics is like a coronation. Like it was uncovered, the dem primary which the dem national committee was supposed to be neutral on, came to be heavily Clinton favoring so it was not a “fair” primary as laid out in how they were supposed to be run.
I’d be happy if both candidates dropped out since having a 3rd or 4th candidate split the votes would just let congress pick and that probably isn’t good neither.
There probably is a reason why so few young people are interested in elections since most people feel there is little they can do and the “machine” just keeps running electing people who are loyal to the establishment…(old boys/girls club)…[/quote]
Dude, your whining is exactly what I’m disparaging. Relative to your attitude I am high and mighty. But you set the bar low.
Summary of your post: “Wha wha wha … there’s no perfect candidate so I’m not even gonna vote!”
Elections are a messy process, they always have been (and yes I understand the electoral college…) Life is imperfect, people are imperfect, candidates are imperfect.
It’s always been that way. Some of our greatest presidents weren’t even popular when they were elected. Lincoln and Kennedy didn’t even get a majority of the popular vote. Truman became vice president after being chosen by FDR in a political bargain (and FDR didn’t even like him…) Truman had only five years experience total in federal government when he had to decide on the use of atomic weapons as president…. Teddy Roosevelt was not elected for his first term and could not win as a third-party candidate in even though he was popular. Reagan had a strong following but was despised by a huge portion of the population.
Very few presidents were widely popular during their first term election, and all of them had plenty of faults and detractors. There’s always been party politics and partisan loyalty.
The process and the candidates always suck if you want to see it that way.
What exactly do young people think that they should be able to do? They get a vote, same as an old person. Should they get more?
August 23, 2016 at 9:24 PM #800834GuestJoec, I assume you care where you live and where your kids go to school. Don’t you vote for school board or city council? Think globally, act locally.
August 24, 2016 at 11:53 AM #800848poorgradstudent
Participant[quote=harvey]Why do people say their vote doesn’t make a difference in CA?
If your vote doesn’t make a difference, then who’s vote does?[/quote]
In California a person’s presidential vote in the general election doesn’t really matter. If Cali ever goes Republican in the next 30 years, it’s going to be in such a deluge election we’re not going to be the state that tips the scales. When my far left friends talk about voting for Jill Stein, I’m like “Knock yourself out… won’t affect the final result”.
Obviously an individual voter matters a lot in local races, and in competitive house seats like Scott Peters’s.
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