They will never be fogotten

[scaredyclassic]

Very few judges do it at the beginning of court, but some do. If I were judge, I’d do it when we began, because it seems right to me in court. Recently a judge held a lawyer in contempt for not pledging and put him in jail. Lawyer won on appeal. I would not hold you in contempt for not pledging. I might bark at you if you snicker.

[briansd1]

Aside from the pledge of allegiance, respect for the flag is an interesting controversial topic.

Earlier today I saw a bumper sticker with an American flag and the words: Fear This. What is that supposed to mean?

Does wearing the flag on your fat ass or greasy body at the County Fair, on the Fourth of July, show any more respect for the flag than burning the flag?

[scaredyclassic]

Is it common in other countries to actually pledge allegiance to a flag? I would think it’s usually the country itself to which allegiance is pledged. I understand showing respect for the flag, and the republic for which it stands, but we don’t owe actual loyalty to the flag itself. The under god part seems troubling. I think there is some ambiguity as to whether the pledge is a pledge of allegiance to God. I see that the “under God” qualifies the one nation’s location, but is it arguable that the pledge implies allegiance both to the one nation and to the god above that nation? The liberty and justice for all should probsbly be amended at the very least to be liberty and justice for all persons lawfully on u.s.soil. Other exclusions may apply.

Why can’t the pledge simply be;

in the presence of our flag, we pledge our allegiance to the united states of America.

Done.

No one can quibble with that.,

[briansd1]

I wonder why Rick Perry doesn’t always wear a flag lapel pin. He must not love America enough.

[Aecetia]

Good one Brian. I think he probably thinks Texas come first, then the U.S.

[njtosd]

[quote=briansd1]

Earlier today I saw a bumper sticker with an American flag and the words: Fear This. What is that supposed to mean?

[/quote]

I think it’s a response to the NO FEAR bumper stickers that have been around for a while. Apparently the KKK is now trying to use that marking to mean National Organization for European American Rights, which makes the NO FEAR brand people kind of mad. Interesting issue of the conflict between trademark law and freedom of speech.

[Aecetia]

Here is the info. from snopes-
http://www.snopes.com/inboxer/outrage/nofear.asp

[Arraya]

[quote=briansd1]Arraya posted before about how nationalism can easily be manipulated with propaganda.
[/quote]

Well, I think the fact we emerged as a social species, in a tribal setting, is the derivation of patriotism. The tribal mentality then widened to include religions, nation-states, ethnicities, etc..

I’d say there is probably an evolutionary developed trait for this tribal mentality because the cohesiveness was necessary for survival. It still is, really

The problem is people’s emotional connection to the collective can blind them, which becomes a source of manipulation. Especially with how stratified our societies have become over time, where, the interests of the top are opposed to those below.

[scaredyclassic]

I must have a genetic defect. I cannot muster any emotional connection to the Jewish people, my hometown, the ny mets, my Various Alma maters, or any of the various tribes and groups I belong or have belonged to or been geographically associated with or followed.

I have an affinity for some other cyclists but in reality I’m not crazy about them either. Many other lawyers irritate me.

I feel some connection to piggington. But not very.

I’ve always kinda felt group loyalty was a scam fake a trick. Probably started in junior high. But I was that was from all time probably even a bit as an infant

Never have felt group connection. I think some people are just born aloof and apart. I would rate myself near the highest levels of emotional group discOnnect. On a scale of 1-10, I’d say very close to ten.

Maybe that’s why I’m often very depressed.

[Arraya]

maybe you have evolved and included all of humanity in your tribal connection. Which can lead to depression

[scaredyclassic]

I don’t feel connected to humanity …I feel no more connected to say a local sports team or my college or my kids hs than I do some bushmen in Africa. About the same general low level acknowledgement that were all here and we shouldn’t hurt each other if possible.

The only people I really feel any emotional allegiance and connection to are my small family. No friends, really. Don’t really trust others. Didn’t fully trust my wife until we were married a long time. Still, you never know.

Anyone who has a no fear sticker? Moron. Not trustworthy. Too dumb.

Maybe I ought to see a therapist. I’ve tried it before but never trusted any of them. Don’t like em. Phonies. I’m a very bad patient. I always ended up trying to screw with the therapist and make them feel shamed or bad. I’m really really skilled at making others feel uncomfortable; that is, it comes very naturally. I rarely smile and never laugh politely. If I do laugh it’s genuine and it comes out as a terrifing convulsive snort.

I guess I have trust issues. ESP including realtors, but also doctors stockbrokers financial planners religious leaders pretty much anyone trying to influence anyone.

But also dentists. Don’t trust them. No advertising. All lies. Cheaters.

[scaredyclassic]

Ok now I have a theory.

People able to experience strong feelings of group connection will have strong feelings toward tales of tribal heroism.

People disconnected from strong group connections will not experience emotional reactions to tribal heroism.

[briansd1]

[quote=Arraya]maybe you have evolved and included all of humanity in your tribal connection. Which can lead to depression[/quote]

I’m not depressed, but more realistic.

I understand walter very well, although I love to have friends and make new friends.

I call myself a citizen of the world (but I only tell people who might understand). I don’t really feel much connection the various tribes I belonged to. And about those tribes, I developed romanticized ideals about them so nobody lives up to my standards anyway.

I don’t really experience emotional love like others. Intellectual love, I can fully understand.

My friend cried for days when his gf broke up with him. I told him he deserved somone better anyway and she wasn’t worth crying over (I was later told that’s not a good way to support a friend.. you’re supposed to empathize and listen).

Women have strong tribal connections which I find quite illogical. I tend to apply the same standards to everybody and rarely make exceptions for my own tribe, even my own children if I had them.

I’ve told friends who were bitching to look in the mirror. The depressing part is when I have to look in the mirror both literally and figuratively. Thankfully, I’m not that bad. I know that I’m not the best, but I can stand my own relative to others.

My theory is that humans, no matter how unworthy or ugly they might be, believe that they are hot shit. And that’s why they want to make babies and pass on their genes (instinct to reproduce).

That’s why people always believe that their tribe is superior.

People who marry outside their tribe have less tribal connection and less nationalism.

The fact that Obama is a product of a White American mom and Black African dad is troubling to many. And that’s why they feel that Obama is not our legitimate president.

I’m sure that it would be the end of the British monarchy if Prince William had married a Black Kenyan woman or a Chinese woman. The people would just not accept it.

[scaredyclassic]

I believed I was inferior and should not reproduce.

But I guess I’m not that bad.

[briansd1]

[quote=Arraya][quote=briansd1]Arraya posted before about how nationalism can easily be manipulated with propaganda.
[/quote]

Well, I think the fact we emerged as a social species, in a tribal setting, is the derivation of patriotism. The tribal mentality then widened to include religions, nation-states, ethnicities, etc..

I’d say there is probably an evolutionary developed trait for this tribal mentality because the cohesiveness was necessary for survival. It still is, really

The problem is people’s emotional connection to the collective can blind them, which becomes a source of manipulation. Especially with how stratified our societies have become over time, where, the interests of the top are opposed to those below.[/quote]

Interesting you should mention social stratification.

I have always wondered why poor Whites would support rich Whites over Blacks or others people of their same social economics.

Maybe it’s a tribal thing. There’s that psychological desire of belonging and maybe kissing-up to the rich people of your perceived tribe will somehow cause a trickle down.

My grandmother (who was born in 1890) used to tell me stories of my grandfather’s illigimate sibblings coming to visit all the time, although our side of the family treated them like crap. They weren’t recognized as sibblings but they were acknowledged informally (that was normal back then).

So the illegitimate kids or poor cousins feel more need to connect to the extended tribe. The established people tend to reject people beyond their closer, well-defined tribe.

It’s like a mafia boss who has a very tight family. But there’s a host of underlings who feel connected and will act on command. If the mafia boss orders a murder someone will do it, and think of it as absolutely normal, because it’s for a “good cause” (survival and properity of the tribe).

[Author]

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