Tales of an RSF buyer (Part II)

[raptorduck]

SD Realtor. None of the homes I wrote offers on that went into escrow, have closed escrow yet. But a few homes I looked early on at and considered strongly writing offers on, have sold and closed escrow. 3 I can think of are in RSF, including one we did write an offer on.

The first sold for 69% of its original listing price, 85% of its second listing price, and 88% of its final listing price. It was on the market over 1.5 yrs. I really liked this house and wanted to write an offer on it. I thought it was a bargain at that third listing price and would have offered more than it sold for quite honestly. It was a “fixer upper” and we were relatively early in our process, and my wife was having nothing of fixer uppers. She has come around some since then, but just some. That is almost one that got away.

The second sold for 61% of its original listing price, 78% of its second listing price, and 89% of its final listing price. It sat on the market for over a year. Kind of a project house. Too small for us, and hard to see where to add, but it was on a great property IMHO.

The third is a sore spot. It is the only home we allowed ourselves to get emotional over. We did go after that one and competeted with 5 other buyers and it sold for 88% of the original asking price, 95% of the second asking price, and just above the final asking price. To me, it was worth its original asking price, but I would never have paid that. It was turn key perfect though, in every way.

My view is that while discipline and paitience are a virtue in this market, you must find a balance. I won’t write an offer below 80% of asking and really the vast majority of mine are in the 85%-90% range. I don’t want to play games with sellers and want to start somewhere where logic can suggest a middle ground. So I wait for a few “real” price reductions before I get really interested and start from there. That way I won’t be forced to write a 60% or 70% of asking offer. I note that some sellers list high and immediately lower the price to appear like a price reduction that really is not. These are easy to spot if you have looked at a lot of listings.

I feel that if you find a house you really want, you should go for it. If I had an emotional attachment to any of the homes I competed for, I would not have let a few % points in price difference stand in my way. But I did not. I really liked them, but my other options did not compel me to bend farther. You don’t want to loose that amazing house over a small gap from your rule, but then again you must conclude it really was amazing. Only that one example above fit that bill for me, but alas, I could not compete against those other bidders. To be honest, in retrospect, I wish I had been a little bit stronger with my coutners on that one, but that was my first offer last year and I had less market info. I think I still would have lost to a higher bidder though.

As for patience, my wife and agent don’t have nearly the patience I do and I am starting to wear on them, particularly my agent. I feel for her, honestly. Imagine seeing a six figure commission check so close you can taste it, only to see it wait for another birth.

[raptorduck]

KIBU. I think all my letters are in PDF b/c my agent writes them and I comment. There are two camps for me. The first is for that rare house you really love. In that case you make a case for you being the buyer that seller should choose to live in their home that they have loved. This works best for sellers who are still living in their homes. The second is for that house that you think is overpriced. In that case you make a logical argument as to why it is better for the seller to sell to you now at your price, rather than hold out for a higher one.

I am being very general. Each letter we write is taiolored to the particular property, seller, neighborhood, and pricing. Key is to be honest. It is obvious you like the house or you would not be making an offer. Or it should be obvious anyway. But do you love it? If you do say so. If you don’t say so. I love many of the homes I wrote offers on, and really like others. One, the one example above, I lusted for, sheer violent lust. Shame on me. Lust kills self discipline and perspective. I don’t know how I stuck to my rules on that one, but somehow I did. It sold for way above my max anyway, so I would not have bent a rule, I would have shattered one, to get it.

Unless the house is truly unique, I think the logic type letter works best. Again, if the seller is still in the house, you have to consider a more personal approach in my view.

I always tell myself that the sellers are people who can be neighbors and friends. They are not the enemy. Some are ignorant and stubborn, but then again, I can be too, and they will learn on their own terms. I am not rooting for the market to continue falling indefinately. That will hurt everybody in the long run, renters and owners. The economy is a soup and codependent and not a partitioned and self sustaining. As I have stated, my market bottem expectation is around this time next year. There are ways to get a good deal while not contributing to the falling market, very creative ways. But while the market is falling, yes, I have to be cautions and agressive as a rational buyer.

Sellers can be irrational, but they are entitled to be. It is their house. One of my favorites in RSF lowerd her price once, in 2007, to 85% of her original asking in 2006. Unfortunately her comps continued falling to 76% of her second asking price. One neighbors home of about the same size and quality had listed for her same exact listing price. 6 months later it sold for 75% of that. Yet she stuck to her second asking. Recently, she “increased” her asking price because she was fed up with low ball offers and figures if she starts higher, so will they. At market price, I would buy her house, but not at her irrational price. She still lives in it and apparently can afford to be irrational. That is her right. She may not “have” to sell.

Anyway, I note that my rules are just that, my rules. They may not work for anybody but me. I have no unique insights here. They walk well worn paths. Just a unique perspective. I have no secrets. I am just trying to find a home to live in at a time when taking the plunge can be unsettling. In emotional times, I am trying to be unemotional and logical. I may still buy in the next month or so. I have gotten very very close these past few weeks. If I do, my new home will no doubt loose value over the next year and perhaps few years and if I do it according to my rules, I should not worry to much about it.

Soon I will be a seller. Simple rules there too. Fix every little thing wrong with it first. Get inspections done and a disclosure package before I list to show to buyers early. Prepare it for sale properly. Market it agressively. List it for less $/sf than any other home in the area. Drop the price after a short period if no interest. Draw a bottom line for sales price, and take any offer from a strong buyer above that line. Greed and shortsided hopes for a higher offer are the mind killers in this market for sellers. Work the probabilities, not the possibilities. Do not keep it on the market more than 150 days max. Rent it after that. I can cover my mortgage and a little more than that, but not all taxes and insurance, so it will run a bit cash negative.

[raptorduck]

KIBU. I think all my letters are in PDF b/c my agent writes them and I comment. There are two camps for me. The first is for that rare house you really love. In that case you make a case for you being the buyer that seller should choose to live in their home that they have loved. This works best for sellers who are still living in their homes. The second is for that house that you think is overpriced. In that case you make a logical argument as to why it is better for the seller to sell to you now at your price, rather than hold out for a higher one.

I am being very general. Each letter we write is taiolored to the particular property, seller, neighborhood, and pricing. Key is to be honest. It is obvious you like the house or you would not be making an offer. Or it should be obvious anyway. But do you love it? If you do say so. If you don’t say so. I love many of the homes I wrote offers on, and really like others. One, the one example above, I lusted for, sheer violent lust. Shame on me. Lust kills self discipline and perspective. I don’t know how I stuck to my rules on that one, but somehow I did. It sold for way above my max anyway, so I would not have bent a rule, I would have shattered one, to get it.

Unless the house is truly unique, I think the logic type letter works best. Again, if the seller is still in the house, you have to consider a more personal approach in my view.

I always tell myself that the sellers are people who can be neighbors and friends. They are not the enemy. Some are ignorant and stubborn, but then again, I can be too, and they will learn on their own terms. I am not rooting for the market to continue falling indefinately. That will hurt everybody in the long run, renters and owners. The economy is a soup and codependent and not a partitioned and self sustaining. As I have stated, my market bottem expectation is around this time next year. There are ways to get a good deal while not contributing to the falling market, very creative ways. But while the market is falling, yes, I have to be cautions and agressive as a rational buyer.

Sellers can be irrational, but they are entitled to be. It is their house. One of my favorites in RSF lowerd her price once, in 2007, to 85% of her original asking in 2006. Unfortunately her comps continued falling to 76% of her second asking price. One neighbors home of about the same size and quality had listed for her same exact listing price. 6 months later it sold for 75% of that. Yet she stuck to her second asking. Recently, she “increased” her asking price because she was fed up with low ball offers and figures if she starts higher, so will they. At market price, I would buy her house, but not at her irrational price. She still lives in it and apparently can afford to be irrational. That is her right. She may not “have” to sell.

Anyway, I note that my rules are just that, my rules. They may not work for anybody but me. I have no unique insights here. They walk well worn paths. Just a unique perspective. I have no secrets. I am just trying to find a home to live in at a time when taking the plunge can be unsettling. In emotional times, I am trying to be unemotional and logical. I may still buy in the next month or so. I have gotten very very close these past few weeks. If I do, my new home will no doubt loose value over the next year and perhaps few years and if I do it according to my rules, I should not worry to much about it.

Soon I will be a seller. Simple rules there too. Fix every little thing wrong with it first. Get inspections done and a disclosure package before I list to show to buyers early. Prepare it for sale properly. Market it agressively. List it for less $/sf than any other home in the area. Drop the price after a short period if no interest. Draw a bottom line for sales price, and take any offer from a strong buyer above that line. Greed and shortsided hopes for a higher offer are the mind killers in this market for sellers. Work the probabilities, not the possibilities. Do not keep it on the market more than 150 days max. Rent it after that. I can cover my mortgage and a little more than that, but not all taxes and insurance, so it will run a bit cash negative.

[raptorduck]

KIBU. I think all my letters are in PDF b/c my agent writes them and I comment. There are two camps for me. The first is for that rare house you really love. In that case you make a case for you being the buyer that seller should choose to live in their home that they have loved. This works best for sellers who are still living in their homes. The second is for that house that you think is overpriced. In that case you make a logical argument as to why it is better for the seller to sell to you now at your price, rather than hold out for a higher one.

I am being very general. Each letter we write is taiolored to the particular property, seller, neighborhood, and pricing. Key is to be honest. It is obvious you like the house or you would not be making an offer. Or it should be obvious anyway. But do you love it? If you do say so. If you don’t say so. I love many of the homes I wrote offers on, and really like others. One, the one example above, I lusted for, sheer violent lust. Shame on me. Lust kills self discipline and perspective. I don’t know how I stuck to my rules on that one, but somehow I did. It sold for way above my max anyway, so I would not have bent a rule, I would have shattered one, to get it.

Unless the house is truly unique, I think the logic type letter works best. Again, if the seller is still in the house, you have to consider a more personal approach in my view.

I always tell myself that the sellers are people who can be neighbors and friends. They are not the enemy. Some are ignorant and stubborn, but then again, I can be too, and they will learn on their own terms. I am not rooting for the market to continue falling indefinately. That will hurt everybody in the long run, renters and owners. The economy is a soup and codependent and not a partitioned and self sustaining. As I have stated, my market bottem expectation is around this time next year. There are ways to get a good deal while not contributing to the falling market, very creative ways. But while the market is falling, yes, I have to be cautions and agressive as a rational buyer.

Sellers can be irrational, but they are entitled to be. It is their house. One of my favorites in RSF lowerd her price once, in 2007, to 85% of her original asking in 2006. Unfortunately her comps continued falling to 76% of her second asking price. One neighbors home of about the same size and quality had listed for her same exact listing price. 6 months later it sold for 75% of that. Yet she stuck to her second asking. Recently, she “increased” her asking price because she was fed up with low ball offers and figures if she starts higher, so will they. At market price, I would buy her house, but not at her irrational price. She still lives in it and apparently can afford to be irrational. That is her right. She may not “have” to sell.

Anyway, I note that my rules are just that, my rules. They may not work for anybody but me. I have no unique insights here. They walk well worn paths. Just a unique perspective. I have no secrets. I am just trying to find a home to live in at a time when taking the plunge can be unsettling. In emotional times, I am trying to be unemotional and logical. I may still buy in the next month or so. I have gotten very very close these past few weeks. If I do, my new home will no doubt loose value over the next year and perhaps few years and if I do it according to my rules, I should not worry to much about it.

Soon I will be a seller. Simple rules there too. Fix every little thing wrong with it first. Get inspections done and a disclosure package before I list to show to buyers early. Prepare it for sale properly. Market it agressively. List it for less $/sf than any other home in the area. Drop the price after a short period if no interest. Draw a bottom line for sales price, and take any offer from a strong buyer above that line. Greed and shortsided hopes for a higher offer are the mind killers in this market for sellers. Work the probabilities, not the possibilities. Do not keep it on the market more than 150 days max. Rent it after that. I can cover my mortgage and a little more than that, but not all taxes and insurance, so it will run a bit cash negative.

[raptorduck]

KIBU. I think all my letters are in PDF b/c my agent writes them and I comment. There are two camps for me. The first is for that rare house you really love. In that case you make a case for you being the buyer that seller should choose to live in their home that they have loved. This works best for sellers who are still living in their homes. The second is for that house that you think is overpriced. In that case you make a logical argument as to why it is better for the seller to sell to you now at your price, rather than hold out for a higher one.

I am being very general. Each letter we write is taiolored to the particular property, seller, neighborhood, and pricing. Key is to be honest. It is obvious you like the house or you would not be making an offer. Or it should be obvious anyway. But do you love it? If you do say so. If you don’t say so. I love many of the homes I wrote offers on, and really like others. One, the one example above, I lusted for, sheer violent lust. Shame on me. Lust kills self discipline and perspective. I don’t know how I stuck to my rules on that one, but somehow I did. It sold for way above my max anyway, so I would not have bent a rule, I would have shattered one, to get it.

Unless the house is truly unique, I think the logic type letter works best. Again, if the seller is still in the house, you have to consider a more personal approach in my view.

I always tell myself that the sellers are people who can be neighbors and friends. They are not the enemy. Some are ignorant and stubborn, but then again, I can be too, and they will learn on their own terms. I am not rooting for the market to continue falling indefinately. That will hurt everybody in the long run, renters and owners. The economy is a soup and codependent and not a partitioned and self sustaining. As I have stated, my market bottem expectation is around this time next year. There are ways to get a good deal while not contributing to the falling market, very creative ways. But while the market is falling, yes, I have to be cautions and agressive as a rational buyer.

Sellers can be irrational, but they are entitled to be. It is their house. One of my favorites in RSF lowerd her price once, in 2007, to 85% of her original asking in 2006. Unfortunately her comps continued falling to 76% of her second asking price. One neighbors home of about the same size and quality had listed for her same exact listing price. 6 months later it sold for 75% of that. Yet she stuck to her second asking. Recently, she “increased” her asking price because she was fed up with low ball offers and figures if she starts higher, so will they. At market price, I would buy her house, but not at her irrational price. She still lives in it and apparently can afford to be irrational. That is her right. She may not “have” to sell.

Anyway, I note that my rules are just that, my rules. They may not work for anybody but me. I have no unique insights here. They walk well worn paths. Just a unique perspective. I have no secrets. I am just trying to find a home to live in at a time when taking the plunge can be unsettling. In emotional times, I am trying to be unemotional and logical. I may still buy in the next month or so. I have gotten very very close these past few weeks. If I do, my new home will no doubt loose value over the next year and perhaps few years and if I do it according to my rules, I should not worry to much about it.

Soon I will be a seller. Simple rules there too. Fix every little thing wrong with it first. Get inspections done and a disclosure package before I list to show to buyers early. Prepare it for sale properly. Market it agressively. List it for less $/sf than any other home in the area. Drop the price after a short period if no interest. Draw a bottom line for sales price, and take any offer from a strong buyer above that line. Greed and shortsided hopes for a higher offer are the mind killers in this market for sellers. Work the probabilities, not the possibilities. Do not keep it on the market more than 150 days max. Rent it after that. I can cover my mortgage and a little more than that, but not all taxes and insurance, so it will run a bit cash negative.

[raptorduck]

KIBU. I think all my letters are in PDF b/c my agent writes them and I comment. There are two camps for me. The first is for that rare house you really love. In that case you make a case for you being the buyer that seller should choose to live in their home that they have loved. This works best for sellers who are still living in their homes. The second is for that house that you think is overpriced. In that case you make a logical argument as to why it is better for the seller to sell to you now at your price, rather than hold out for a higher one.

I am being very general. Each letter we write is taiolored to the particular property, seller, neighborhood, and pricing. Key is to be honest. It is obvious you like the house or you would not be making an offer. Or it should be obvious anyway. But do you love it? If you do say so. If you don’t say so. I love many of the homes I wrote offers on, and really like others. One, the one example above, I lusted for, sheer violent lust. Shame on me. Lust kills self discipline and perspective. I don’t know how I stuck to my rules on that one, but somehow I did. It sold for way above my max anyway, so I would not have bent a rule, I would have shattered one, to get it.

Unless the house is truly unique, I think the logic type letter works best. Again, if the seller is still in the house, you have to consider a more personal approach in my view.

I always tell myself that the sellers are people who can be neighbors and friends. They are not the enemy. Some are ignorant and stubborn, but then again, I can be too, and they will learn on their own terms. I am not rooting for the market to continue falling indefinately. That will hurt everybody in the long run, renters and owners. The economy is a soup and codependent and not a partitioned and self sustaining. As I have stated, my market bottem expectation is around this time next year. There are ways to get a good deal while not contributing to the falling market, very creative ways. But while the market is falling, yes, I have to be cautions and agressive as a rational buyer.

Sellers can be irrational, but they are entitled to be. It is their house. One of my favorites in RSF lowerd her price once, in 2007, to 85% of her original asking in 2006. Unfortunately her comps continued falling to 76% of her second asking price. One neighbors home of about the same size and quality had listed for her same exact listing price. 6 months later it sold for 75% of that. Yet she stuck to her second asking. Recently, she “increased” her asking price because she was fed up with low ball offers and figures if she starts higher, so will they. At market price, I would buy her house, but not at her irrational price. She still lives in it and apparently can afford to be irrational. That is her right. She may not “have” to sell.

Anyway, I note that my rules are just that, my rules. They may not work for anybody but me. I have no unique insights here. They walk well worn paths. Just a unique perspective. I have no secrets. I am just trying to find a home to live in at a time when taking the plunge can be unsettling. In emotional times, I am trying to be unemotional and logical. I may still buy in the next month or so. I have gotten very very close these past few weeks. If I do, my new home will no doubt loose value over the next year and perhaps few years and if I do it according to my rules, I should not worry to much about it.

Soon I will be a seller. Simple rules there too. Fix every little thing wrong with it first. Get inspections done and a disclosure package before I list to show to buyers early. Prepare it for sale properly. Market it agressively. List it for less $/sf than any other home in the area. Drop the price after a short period if no interest. Draw a bottom line for sales price, and take any offer from a strong buyer above that line. Greed and shortsided hopes for a higher offer are the mind killers in this market for sellers. Work the probabilities, not the possibilities. Do not keep it on the market more than 150 days max. Rent it after that. I can cover my mortgage and a little more than that, but not all taxes and insurance, so it will run a bit cash negative.

[EconProf]

BobS
Great posts Raptor, and we have all learned from your methodical approach. Your list of “lessons learned” should be framed and hung on the refrigerator door of every house hunter.
So why hasn’t it got you your dream home yet? You are doing all the right things. I can only ascribe it to bad luck. You are fishing in the deep waters of the least-impacted segment of the housing bubble. The sellers there have exhibited a remarkable resistance to serious price cutting. With luck, perhaps some Bear Stearns execs own houses in RSF.

[EconProf]

BobS
Great posts Raptor, and we have all learned from your methodical approach. Your list of “lessons learned” should be framed and hung on the refrigerator door of every house hunter.
So why hasn’t it got you your dream home yet? You are doing all the right things. I can only ascribe it to bad luck. You are fishing in the deep waters of the least-impacted segment of the housing bubble. The sellers there have exhibited a remarkable resistance to serious price cutting. With luck, perhaps some Bear Stearns execs own houses in RSF.

[EconProf]

BobS
Great posts Raptor, and we have all learned from your methodical approach. Your list of “lessons learned” should be framed and hung on the refrigerator door of every house hunter.
So why hasn’t it got you your dream home yet? You are doing all the right things. I can only ascribe it to bad luck. You are fishing in the deep waters of the least-impacted segment of the housing bubble. The sellers there have exhibited a remarkable resistance to serious price cutting. With luck, perhaps some Bear Stearns execs own houses in RSF.

[EconProf]

BobS
Great posts Raptor, and we have all learned from your methodical approach. Your list of “lessons learned” should be framed and hung on the refrigerator door of every house hunter.
So why hasn’t it got you your dream home yet? You are doing all the right things. I can only ascribe it to bad luck. You are fishing in the deep waters of the least-impacted segment of the housing bubble. The sellers there have exhibited a remarkable resistance to serious price cutting. With luck, perhaps some Bear Stearns execs own houses in RSF.

[EconProf]

BobS
Great posts Raptor, and we have all learned from your methodical approach. Your list of “lessons learned” should be framed and hung on the refrigerator door of every house hunter.
So why hasn’t it got you your dream home yet? You are doing all the right things. I can only ascribe it to bad luck. You are fishing in the deep waters of the least-impacted segment of the housing bubble. The sellers there have exhibited a remarkable resistance to serious price cutting. With luck, perhaps some Bear Stearns execs own houses in RSF.

[raptorduck]

BobS.

If you ask my wife, I am too stubborn to bend my rules.

If you ask my agent or the listing agent, I am not being flexible enough to bridge a “small” gap to a deal.

If you ask me, I am simply confident enough that I will eventually find a great home within my rules, that I am not stressing over near misses. I have gotten close enough recently to feed that confidence more nourishment.

I would not call it bad luck, just lack of opportunistic convergence. Now interests rates skyrocketing when I was trying to work one of those deals, now that was bad luck.

p.s. Santaluz is still a strong possiblity. If not to buy, then to rent until I buy there or in RSF.

[raptorduck]

BobS.

If you ask my wife, I am too stubborn to bend my rules.

If you ask my agent or the listing agent, I am not being flexible enough to bridge a “small” gap to a deal.

If you ask me, I am simply confident enough that I will eventually find a great home within my rules, that I am not stressing over near misses. I have gotten close enough recently to feed that confidence more nourishment.

I would not call it bad luck, just lack of opportunistic convergence. Now interests rates skyrocketing when I was trying to work one of those deals, now that was bad luck.

p.s. Santaluz is still a strong possiblity. If not to buy, then to rent until I buy there or in RSF.

[raptorduck]

BobS.

If you ask my wife, I am too stubborn to bend my rules.

If you ask my agent or the listing agent, I am not being flexible enough to bridge a “small” gap to a deal.

If you ask me, I am simply confident enough that I will eventually find a great home within my rules, that I am not stressing over near misses. I have gotten close enough recently to feed that confidence more nourishment.

I would not call it bad luck, just lack of opportunistic convergence. Now interests rates skyrocketing when I was trying to work one of those deals, now that was bad luck.

p.s. Santaluz is still a strong possiblity. If not to buy, then to rent until I buy there or in RSF.

[raptorduck]

BobS.

If you ask my wife, I am too stubborn to bend my rules.

If you ask my agent or the listing agent, I am not being flexible enough to bridge a “small” gap to a deal.

If you ask me, I am simply confident enough that I will eventually find a great home within my rules, that I am not stressing over near misses. I have gotten close enough recently to feed that confidence more nourishment.

I would not call it bad luck, just lack of opportunistic convergence. Now interests rates skyrocketing when I was trying to work one of those deals, now that was bad luck.

p.s. Santaluz is still a strong possiblity. If not to buy, then to rent until I buy there or in RSF.

[Author]

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