ROFLMAO: Oh no! Trump talked to Taiwan!

[ocrenter]

[quote=flu]So originally I thinking that the U.S. was going to be messed up with Trump at the helm, while the rest of the world more organized is going to jump ahead of the U.S.

I’m beginning to think of the opposite. Maybe it’s Trump’s genius to do this. Or maybe it’s just his plain ignorance that ends up producing the same results….But the scenario I’m thinking is that by a few subtle things Trump does, he ends up causing so much conflict abroad, that the rest of the world ends up being just as screwed up, if not more screwed up, than we will be.

Take this taiwan/china issue. In one little phone call, if Trump manages to destabilize Asia, that’s pretty impressive. I mean, combined with the idea of U.S. pulling out of Asia politics, I wonder if this would start an arms race back there. The greatest threat to progress is if you have with ethnicity get into conflict with themselves. And this China/Taiwan spat might just do the trick back there. Although my roots is Taiwanese and I am pro-taiwan independence…I’d like to get the point that we don’t split hairs and say things like “I’m not chinese, I’m taiwanese” and vice versus. It doesn’t help the greater cause for asians in the 21st century, imho. And I personally wouldn’t want to see either Taiwan or China fail, since I have no desire to seeing us asians set back in progress.

edit:

looks like it was intentional…
http://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/news/nation-world/ct-donald-trump-taiwan-call-20161204-story.html%5B/quote%5D

I felt it to be intentional as well. Quite frankly, if all it takes is a phone call to upset the apple cart, the Emperor really has no cloth! And I think that’s Trump is getting at: that China huffs and puffs a lot but liberal appeasement is silly and I’m going to show you why.

As for China, it has a lot going for it. But the danger of unbridled nationalism lurks and quite frankly frequently flamed on by the CCP. Taiwan is China’s Sudetenland. The moment China gets Taiwan, its nationalism would be raging, with the Philippines just 200 miles away and the nearest Japanese islet just 70 miles away, the temptation to “erase past humiliation” would be far too great to resist.

Taiwanese independence is ultimately good for China, there’s a competing model of governance within the same cultural sphere, it keeps the CCP on their toes.

[FlyerInHi]

In diplomacy there is protocol. We would be upset if Russia or China had direct presidential contact with the Palestinians.

NSR, yes the developed world is by and large run by think tanks and the professorial types; and that’s the way it should be. That’s how we achieve the rule of law (international law in this case) and stability. We don’t want capricious leaders doing acting on a whim, upsetting markets, and causing loss of wealth.

[FlyerInHi]

OCR, we already recognized that Taiwan is part of China.

What’s good for China is for them to decide. Is it our job to interference in their affairs?

We are better working with the other countries in the Pacific and develop our own sphere of influence, so they lean to our side.

[ocrenter]

[quote=FlyerInHi]OCR, we already recognized that Taiwan is part of China.

What’s good for China is for them to decide. Is it our job to interference in their affairs?

We are better working with the other countries in the Pacific and develop our own sphere of influence, so they lean to our side.[/quote]

silly Brian, the US “acknowledges” Chinese claim on Taiwan, but we do not recognize Taiwan is part of China.

I thought you are skilled in the intricacies of diplomacy?

If it is up to China to decide, they would decide to march in a few decades ago.

I think what I’m hearing overall is let China recreate their old tributary system in the Western Pacific and we just withdraw into our own little circle in North America. If you have it your way why did we even extend the NATO umbrella to the Baltic countries?

[FlyerInHi]

Well, the baltic countries are sovereign nations with seats at the UN.

Taiwan does not even have consensus within the island on independence. . In fact, the KMT still asserts claims to all of China.

I don’t think Taiwan is our job.

We should work with the countries in the Pacific to establish a trade and political sphere where we lead. The problem now is that trade with China is so big that Pacific rim countries have no choice but to acquiesce to China. Not so good for us. What is Trump gonna do about it?

[ocrenter]

[quote=FlyerInHi]Well, the baltic countries are sovereign nations with seats at the UN.

Taiwan does not even have consensus within the island on independence. . In fact, the KMT still asserts claims to all of China.

I don’t think Taiwan is our job.

We should work with the countries in the Pacific to establish a trade and political sphere where we lead. The problem now is that trade with China is so big that Pacific rim countries have no choice but to acquiesce to China. Not so good for us. What is Trump gonna do about it?[/quote]

Spoken like a true leftist proletarian. This is the domestic benefit Trump was looking for, to paint the left leaning media as appeasers and biased. Boy did he succeed on this account.

As for the KMT, you are aware of how badly the KMT has been doing in Taiwan, right? Of the 113 seats in the legislature, it was left with 35 seats, essentially a 30% representation. Of the cities and counties within Taiwan, it retains one metropolis out of six, and otherwise only control two off shore islands, the central mountainous county of Nantou and the poorest agrarian county of Mauli. Only 3.5% of all Taiwanese think of themselves as pure Chinese, only 9% wishes to consider future unification. So the island pretty much has consensus.

You are right, it isn’t really our job. Just like it really isn’t our job to station troops in S.Korea and Japan and we are pretty much the de facto navy for the Philippines. But we are. Luckily for you, if Taiwan goes, there goes all of that extra responsibility that weren’t really our job in the first place.

Maybe then those Filipinos and Japanese will truly taste the proletarian paradise that the 14 billion Chinese has had the pleasure of enjoying for the last 67 years.

[FlyerInHi]

I don’t know, OCR, China has done pretty well compared to the Phillipines. The Phillipines was the richest country after WWII, and it’s fallen steadily behind the other countries the region.

If there a war for Taiwan independence, what do you think happens to the substantial wealth in China owned by Taiwanese businessmen?

[ocrenter]

[quote=FlyerInHi]I don’t know, OCR, China has done pretty well compared to the Phillipines. The Phillipines was the richest country after WWII, and it’s fallen steadily behind the other countries the region.

If there a war for Taiwan independence, what do you think happens to the substantial wealth in China owned by Taiwanese businessmen?[/quote]

True, but the Philippines also did not have 78 million death from the Great Leap Forward and the cultural revolution. The Philippines was the richest due to US involvement, but was the “richness” real? This is like saying Puerto Rico is the richest in the Caribbean, but that’s due to US tax breaks and social services and handouts, why do you think PR can have independence and chose not to.

Most likely a lot of the Taiwanese businesses will be forced to swear allegiance to China, but they already do now. In addition, funds can’t be repatriated to Taiwan to cook up the housing prices. (You know that’s why Taipei real estate is the most inflated in the world compared to wage right? Repatriated money from China just go into buying real estate, that’s why). China will likely invade Kinmen and Matsu and claim victory as well. China doesn’t have capability to launch amphibious invasion of the Taiwanese mainland.

[Anonymous]

[quote=ocrenter][quote=FlyerInHi]Well, the baltic countries are sovereign nations with seats at the UN.

Taiwan does not even have consensus within the island on independence. . In fact, the KMT still asserts claims to all of China.

I don’t think Taiwan is our job.

We should work with the countries in the Pacific to establish a trade and political sphere where we lead. The problem now is that trade with China is so big that Pacific rim countries have no choice but to acquiesce to China. Not so good for us. What is Trump gonna do about it?[/quote]

Spoken like a true leftist proletarian. [/quote]

Thanks for mixing it up a little.

[Anonymous]

Trump’s is trying to present himself as being unconventional with his twitter posts and little gestures like this Taiwan thing.

Look at his cabinet and it’s a different story. Same old, same old.

For the next four years his fanboys will be enamored by the novelty of his little media tricks.

But his economic policies are going to be mostly classic Republican style trickle-down with a little middle-class welfare to boost the numbers (e.g. the Carrier “deal”) There’s nothing novel about the substance of his policy.

[FlyerInHi]

[quote=no_such_reality]
The EU and America is being run by the nerdy kids and the rest of the world has the likes of Putin, Assad, Rousseff.

The Western leaders are planning a nice prom and acting like were all going to go sing kumbaya, solve climate change and be happy, but all the regular high school kids know somebody is getting pigs blood dumped on them.

Yea, it’s a cynical take and I’m sure it’s “much more complex”[/quote]

And Trump and his raging supporters have engineered a coup. They want to govern through the sheer personality of their leader. Not the rule of law, but threats of consequences, like in Russia.

BTW, the nerds in HS are the ones who study and plan college applications early. They succeed in life.

People of low education want to reduce everything to the basest of human instincts, maybe the way they live. They think that nuances and complexities are needless elitism. In fact, civilization is all about complexities and artifices we develop to contain base instincts.

Sorry, but eating pizza on the couch is not the same a eating a well prepared meal at the table with silverware. It’s eating all the same, but the former act is low class survival, the latter is civilized.

[FlyerInHi]

[quote=harvey]Trump’s is trying to present himself as being unconventional with his twitter posts and little gestures like this Taiwan thing.

Look at his cabinet and it’s a different story. Same old, same old.

For the next four years his fanboys will be enamored by the novelty of his little media tricks.

But his economic policies are going to be mostly classic Republican style trickle-down with a little middle-class welfare to boost the numbers (e.g. the Carrier “deal”) There’s nothing novel about the substance of his policy.[/quote]

I look forward to asking Trump supporters in the rust belt “how’s hopey changey workin’ for ya?”

[Ribbles]

[quote=FlyerInHi]
Sorry, but eating pizza on the couch is not the same a eating a well prepared meal at the table with silverware. It’s eating all the same, but the former act is low class survival, the latter is civilized.[/quote]Check out a series of videos called “Village Food Factory” on youtube. Curious if you would consider that low class survival or civilized. I would be honored to eat with them.

I agree, though. I would eat at the dining room table if we didn’t have a giant guinea pig cage on it.

[FlyerInHi]

[quote=Ribbles]Check out a series of videos called “Village Food Factory” on youtube. Curious if you would consider that low class survival or civilized. I would be honored to eat with them.
[/quote]

I just checked it out. We are all looking for the noble savage, unspoiled by civilization.

[FlyerInHi]

China is building military installations in the Pacific. Putin is winning.

TPP is dead so Pacific Rim countries can’t resist China.

With Trump, looks like the leader of the world will be Putin.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/china-puts-new-weapons-on-south-china-sea-islands-report-says/2016/12/15/c02f67e8-c2a1-11e6-aa03-f2e1260448ff_story.html?hpid=hp_hp-top-table-main_southchinasea-7a%3Ahomepage%2Fstory&utm_term=.9aa7478d61e7

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/europe/the-kremlin-likes-the-hacking-attention-but-not-the-blame/2016/12/14/65279738-c177-11e6-92e8-c07f4f671da4_story.html?utm_term=.cceb31faefbb

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