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FlyerInHi.
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December 3, 2016 at 4:35 PM #22214December 3, 2016 at 4:56 PM #804215
CoronitaParticipantLol. I laughed.
China sure got its panties all bunched up.
.or maybe that’s Trump’s plan afterall, and he’s smarter than people give him credit for.December 3, 2016 at 5:03 PM #804216FlyerInHi
GuestTrump is probably too ignorant to know the Taiwan implications. If the president of Taiwan (or any other country) calls to congratulate, he’d be like “oh, ok. Put him through”.
Taiwan played him. There is no protocol and few gatekeepers to reach a president-elect.
December 3, 2016 at 8:15 PM #804218ocrenter
Participant[quote=FlyerInHi]Trump is probably too ignorant to know the Taiwan implications. If the president of Taiwan (or any other country) calls to congratulate, he’d be like “oh, ok. Put him through”.
Taiwan played him. There is no protocol and few gatekeepers to reach a president-elect.[/quote]
that’s the typical liberal portrayal and narrative of Trump that they are pushing. I have come to believe that is definitely not the case.
in this case, I’m sure he was briefed on the topic and decided to “say it like it is” and cry out that the emperor (one china policy) has no cloth.
I have read a lot of articles on this since last night, and it isn’t just China getting all worked up, every single liberal media outlet are all in a huge panic.
Brian, this thing is well played by Trump and it makes liberals look really really bad. afterall, Taiwan is the good guys here and the liberals are looking like a bunch of appeasement happy lackeys ready to kowtow to China at every step of the way.
December 3, 2016 at 8:16 PM #804219Participant[quote=flu]Lol. I laughed.
China sure got its panties all bunched up.
.or maybe that’s Trump’s plan afterall, and he’s smarter than people give him credit for.[/quote]remember China’s nickname in Taiwan: mighty nation with fragile crystalline hearts
December 3, 2016 at 9:29 PM #804220GuestIs that why Trump killed TPP? Because he doesn’t want to kowtow to China?
Well China is not in TPP. Do you think his ignorant, uneducated supporters know that?Vietnam, the country that would benefit the most from TPP, in now kissing China’s ass because there won’t be preferential trade with the US. Same goes for the Phillipines and Australia. Anyone challenging China on the South China Sea island military buildup and oil drilling? Not much anymore. We turned our backs on our allies and they now need China. China won. The emperor looks well dressed to me.
You enable Trump, you will be responsible for his actions that harm us.
December 3, 2016 at 10:08 PM #804221Participant[quote=FlyerInHi]Is that why Trump killed TPP? Because he doesn’t want to kowtow to China?
Well China is not in TPP. Do you think his ignorant, uneducated supporters know that?Vietnam, the country that would benefit the most from TPP, in now kissing China’s ass because there won’t be preferential trade with the US. Same goes for the Phillipines and Australia. Anyone challenging China on the South China Sea island military buildup and oil drilling? Not much anymore. We turned our backs on our allies and they now need China. China won. The emperor looks well dressed to me.
You enable Trump, you will be responsible for his actions that harm us.[/quote]
Clinton was going to kill TPP too. The pendulum swung way to the side of protectionism this year for anyone to be able to move forward with TPP. Do you really think it would even pass congress? No chance in hell.
Everyone are trying to play both sides, no one is putting all eggs in one basket at this time. You do that and you’ll get fried. Why do you think the KMT did so poorly in Taiwan?
As for the issue at hand, Taiwan will be used for domestic and foreign purposes. Domestically like I said the liberals are coming out of this one looking like they support an authoritarian fascist regime against a model citizen in democracy. Internationally this gives Trump the bargaining chip he needs in trade talks with China.
Taiwan of course know they are being played too. But a small shrimp has to take up the protection the US offers when faced with an eternal threat of forced annexation and gradual suffocation.
December 4, 2016 at 11:17 AM #804223GuestHa, Trump embracing a young democracy. That’s why he’s kissing Putin’s ass and criticizing NATO while Ukraine is torn apart by Russian backed separatists.
On Taiwan, yeah the phone call was all great PR for Taiwan but there’s nothing in it for us. We need our allies in the Pacific to push back against China’s territorial and maritime claims. For that to happen we need to have their backs.
Trump fucked up by answering the phone call from the president of Taiwan who’s not even his equal in protocol. You know, Trump, the guy who’s all about image and red carpets.
December 4, 2016 at 11:38 AM #804226Guest[quote=ocrenter]
Internationally this gives Trump the bargaining chip he needs in trade talks with China.
[/quote]What trade talks? China is part of WTO.
The US can impose some unilateral sanctions. But it doesn’t need Taiwan for that.[quote=ocrenter]
Taiwan of course know they are being played too. But a small shrimp has to take up the protection the US offers when faced with an eternal threat of forced annexation and gradual suffocation.[/quote]Maybe I’m missing something but I fail to see the strategy in Trump’s part. Another secret plan, I presume.
The phone call is all to Taiwan’s benefit and it’s independence movement. Well played on their part.
December 4, 2016 at 2:08 PM #804229no_such_reality
ParticipantWhatever.
Seriously, the complicated, delicate, decades long diplomatic relations that Trump doesn’t get the nuances off frankly have all the look and issues of a middle school mean girls clique.
December 4, 2016 at 2:38 PM #804230Guest[quote=no_such_reality]Whatever.
Seriously, the complicated, delicate, decades long diplomatic relations that Trump doesn’t get the nuances off frankly have all the look and issues of a middle school mean girls clique.[/quote]
Oh really, the century long international order we, America, established is childish? Throw the protocol out and argue whatever you want?
It’s like going to court and saying the rules and procedures don’t apply because they are stupid, in your opinion.
What about conservatism, which means respecting long established traditions?
The simple issue here is that Taiwan, not recognized by the UN, which the US is a founding member, should not have direct access to the future US President, the leader of the free world. There is a process for that.
December 4, 2016 at 2:40 PM #804231Participant[quote=FlyerInHi]Ha, Trump embracing a young democracy. That’s why he’s kissing Putin’s ass and criticizing NATO while Ukraine is torn apart by Russian backed separatists.
On Taiwan, yeah the phone call was all great PR for Taiwan but there’s nothing in it for us. We need our allies in the Pacific to push back against China’s territorial and maritime claims. For that to happen we need to have their backs.
Trump fucked up by answering the phone call from the president of Taiwan who’s not even his equal in protocol. You know, Trump, the guy who’s all about image and red carpets.[/quote]
she’s the sitting president of a sovereign nation, what do you mean not even his equal.
Taiwan is part of that push back in case you forgot.
December 4, 2016 at 2:50 PM #804232ParticipantBrian, you being the leading liberal here on Piggington, just a question I have had for while now:
there seem to be a consistent anti-Taiwan sentiment among most liberals in my readings throughout the years. Maybe this is based on the fact that the right leaning KMT escaped there, where as China represented the proletarian revolutionary class.
However, things are very different now. China is all about capitalism and right winged nationalism, whereas Taiwan is a genuine democracy that is the most progressive in all of Asia. It has every liberals in this country would absolutely die for: Universal health coverage, gun control, upcoming in a couple of weeks legalized gay marriage, and within just a few more years abolishment of the death penalty.
yet there is still zero love for Taiwan by the left.
can you explain this for me?
December 4, 2016 at 2:52 PM #804233GuestSovereign nation has meaning in international law. Taiwan is not.
December 4, 2016 at 3:11 PM #804234GuestI don’t follow Taiwan’s politics. I just read some international papers, but I believe that Taiwan still pretends to represent all of China though there is an independence movement.
I wish Taiwan all the best, but China is 14% of international trade vs 12% for the US.
Too late now to support Taiwan independence, and not worth the tradeoffs and war. Better to engage China.
I honestly don’t think that Trump knows anything about Taiwan.
“Mr Trump, we have the president of the Republic of China on the line”.
Trump to self: “wow, I’m a big dude, they are groveling before me like Mitt Romney.”Trump and his uneducated supporters: “China, Taiwan, same shit. The liberal elitists are splitting hair.”
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