Quite the little country we’re becoming.

[CA renter]

[quote=SK in CV][quote=CA renter]SK,

That’s not how I understand it.

[/quote]

I’m not sure what incident you’re referring to. The one that’s been discussed here is phone records. Not tapped phone lines.

That said, there have been recent allegations by a former FBI agent that all phone calls (and texts, and emails) are recorded and stored, and can be accessed by law enforcement at a later date.[/quote]

Okay, the confusion stems from the fact that I was referring to the phone-tapping scandal that happened under Bush in the early 2000s. Just pointing out that the government’s tapping into phone calls, phone records, etc. without warrants isn’t new.

And yes, I fully believe that all of our electronic communications are being stored. Why else would our “flat-broke” government be building this? Nice to know we don’t have money for education, healthcare, and other services that would benefit society; but we never hear about there being a lack of money for spying, drones, data centers, etc.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Utah_Data_Center

[Allan from Fallbrook]

[quote=SK in CV][quote=CA renter]SK,

That’s not how I understand it.

[/quote]

I’m not sure what incident you’re referring to. The one that’s been discussed here is phone records. Not tapped phone lines.

That said, there have been recent allegations by a former FBI agent that all phone calls (and texts, and emails) are recorded and stored, and can be accessed by law enforcement at a later date.[/quote]

SK: The FBI agent in question is a former counterterrorism expert named Tim Clemente.

The US Government, or more correctly the NSA, has been eavesdropping for years on private conversations, both judicially (Echelon/Carnivore) and extra-judicially (AT&T Room 641a in San Francisco).

The NSA facility at Camp Williams in Utah further enhances these capabilities.

[SK in CV]

[quote=Allan from Fallbrook]

SK: The FBI agent in question is a former counterterrorism expert named Tim Clemente.

The US Government, or more correctly the NSA, has been eavesdropping for years on private conversations, both judicially (Echelon/Carnivore) and extra-judicially (AT&T Room 641a in San Francisco).

The NSA facility at Camp Williams in Utah further enhances these capabilities.[/quote]

Exactly the guy. The only part that surprised me was the claim that they can hit rewind, and go back and find and listen to conversations in the past. They must be paying a fortune for their dropbox account.

added: I wonder if they could send me a recording of a phone call I had with my ex-wife when she promised she’d get her own cell phone plan. Two years ago.

[earlyretirement]

[quote=CA renter]The govt doesn’t need warrants, silly-billies!

…
All wiretapping of American citizens by the National Security Agency requires a warrant from a three-judge court set up under the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act. After the 9/11 attacks, Congress passed the Patriot Act, which granted the President broad powers to fight a war against terrorism. The George W. Bush administration used these powers to bypass the FISA court and directed the NSA to spy directly on al Qaeda in a new NSA electronic surveillance program. Reports at the time indicate that an “apparently accidental” “glitch” resulted in the interception of communications that were purely domestic in nature.[5] This action was challenged by a number of groups, including Congress, as unconstitutional.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NSA_warrantless_surveillance_controversy
…..

It’s just an “accident” when they tap phone lines of American citizens or residents who might be “domestic terrorists.”[/quote]

Yep. EXACTLY CA Renter…. Man, with this “Patriot Act” the government can get away with anything these days. It’s scary and shocking but really not much we can do.

These government “bureaucrats” in one respect are probably happy after 9/11 which is just horrifying so they could shove things like the Patriot Act in our faces.

[Aecetia]

I guess it just comes down to who wants to take the red pill and who wants to take the blue pill.

[moneymaker]

I opt for no pill. I think the government suffers from the same bureaucrazy as big companies (and yes I did spell it wrong on purpose). I recall a conversation I had with a friend on a public telephone years ago, I mentioned some flagged words and I’ll be damned if “they” didn’t set up a fake address and covertly bring me in(during which time I made it a point to tell them that what they were doing was not constitutional) and the one in charge agreed ( I’m sure he went to law school). What a waste of tax payer dollars. If they had listened comprehensively to the whole conversation ( I think it was a matter of 5 minutes), they could have saved themselves wasted time. The second time they did this (recently) at least they used a good looking girl instead of 2 guys that could have passed for illegal immigrants.

[paramount]

I’m reading a really good book on this Orwellian situation we find ourselves in:

We the People: Whose Constitution is it Anyway? – The Constitutional Fix to a Constitutional Problem

The fix being a constitutional convention – states have the right and the responsibility IMO to keep the fed govt contained.

The other thing that has led to abuse is the decoupling of the dollar from gold. The govt can far to easily print money and use those funds for nefarious purposes.

[bearishgurl]

In the absence of an arrest, indictment or criminal charges filed, Federal Rule of Civil Procedure 45(c)(3)(B)(iii) states:

Rule 45. Subpoena

(c) PROTECTING A PERSON SUBJECT TO A SUBPOENA.

(3) Quashing or Modifying a Subpoena.

(B) When Permitted. To protect a person subject to or affected by a subpoena, the issuing court may, on motion, quash or modify the subpoena if it requires:
…

(iii) a person who is neither a party nor a party’s officer to incur substantial expense to travel more than 100 miles to attend trial.

See pg 64-65 (83-84 of the document): http://www.uscourts.gov/uscourts/rules/civil-procedure.pdf

Either I was asleep at the switch in the immediate aftermath of 9/11 or we now have a “rogue” Federal gubment on our hands. I suspect it was the former with influence from the latter.

Am I missing anything else??

I didn’t study the “Patriot Act.”

[Allan from Fallbrook]

BG: You weren’t asleep at the switch. Unfortunately, the gubment is possessed of extra-judicial capabilities that, in essence, negate and/or nullify your 4th and 6th Amendment rights.

Do a little light reading on FISA Courts, along with Patriot I/II, AUMF and NDAA. If Uncle Sugar determines (using extremely loose criteria in many cases) that you are a threat to this great republic, then his little minions can detain, imprison, wiretap, surveil your happy ass to their heart’s content. And there really isn’t shit you can do about it.

Of course, if the gubment didn’t have these capabilities, well, then the terrorists would win. And we can’t have that.

[no_such_reality]

I’m sure everyone is shocked in disbelief. Deputies accused of deleting one of the videos

[Allan from Fallbrook]

[quote=no_such_reality]I’m sure everyone is shocked in disbelief. Deputies accused of deleting one of the videos[/quote]

NSR: The question is, does the Bakersfield DA go after these deputies for obstruction of justice, witness intimidation and ADW/Murder?

[no_such_reality]

Just IMHO, anything done Under Color of Authority is far more heinous than premeditation or a hate crime.

As it stands now, it’s looking a lot like manslaughter. The witness intimidation and obstruction are too early to call, but just the act of detaining the people until they forked over their camera phones reeks.

On a side note, looks like the White House just forked over 100 pages of emails on Benghazi.

[desmond]

[quote=Allan from Fallbrook][quote=no_such_reality]I’m sure everyone is shocked in disbelief. Deputies accused of deleting one of the videos[/quote]

NSR: The question is, does the Bakersfield DA go after these deputies for obstruction of justice, witness intimidation and ADW/Murder?[/quote]

The 2 phones have been returned to the lawyer of the owners. The TV report did not say if anything was deleted.

[paramount]

It’s being reported that a video was deleted.

No problem, the public employee union thugs loves to protect criminals.

[Allan from Fallbrook]

[quote=paramount]It’s being reported that a video was deleted.

No problem, the public employee union thugs loves to protect criminals.[/quote]

Paramount: In this case, I don’t know. If it’s technically feasible to prove the deletion, the Sheriff’s Office is screwed. That is obstruction of justice and intentional destruction of evidence. Kinda hard to explain that behavior away.

This will be interesting to watch, as it unfolds.

[Author]

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