Question for the Pigglords…. Overnight guest rules for tenants

[spdrun]

As long as he’s not acting like a complete arsehole, it’s frankly none of their damn business. They can be nervous on their own time and keep it to themselves.

(Along with other sexist/racist beliefs.) Anyway, he’s not self-invited; he was invited by a tenant, whose judgement you presumably trust enough to want to rent to her/him in the first place.

In short: as long as my tenant is paying, and no one in the apartment is doing anything illegal or destructive, I really don’t want to know who’s boinking whom.

[NotCranky]

[quote=spdrun]As long as he’s not acting like a complete arsehole, it’s frankly none of their damn business. They can be nervous on their own time and keep it to themselves.

(Along with other sexist/racist beliefs.) Anyway, he’s not self-invited; he was invited by a tenant, whose judgement you presumably trust enough to want to rent to her/him in the first place.

In short: as long as my tenant is paying, and no one in the apartment is doing anything illegal or destructive, I really don’t want to know who’s boinking whom.[/quote]

I did not think they my neighbors or I were out of line at all when it happened in my rental. I thanked them and apologized. If a person is supposed to come through the landlord, I don’t care if it is sexual or not , that’s not the point. The point is how was the occupancy negotiated? You want people you deal with to act in accordance with negotiations. right? What is racist or sexist about that?

[spdrun]

Officially, I’ll put a clause limiting guests to n days in the lease. Unofficially, I really don’t want to know, so long as nothing else bad is going on. I’d rather have a happy tenant than a love-starved, irritable tenant who moved out of his/her home only to encounter a new helichopper parent.

[njtosd]

[quote=UCGal]We’ve talked to her and gave her two options –
– Higher rent if he stays.
– Have him stay less.

She’s interested in the second option. I’m trying to figure out reasonable guidelines for the “staying less” part.[/quote]

I am not a real estate attorney, and you might want to talk to one, but I would think about two things: (1) Can he prove he has another place where he can legally reside? (Is he hanging out because they’re in love or because it’s convenient.) Harder to argue he’s your tenant if he has a lease somewhere else. (2) Have him sign a document saying that he is not now, and will never claim to be your tenant until/unless he signs a lease with you.

Again, I would talk to a lawyer to see if such an agreement is legal/would hold up, and what the ramifications would be. But you have some leverage now to say that you’ll be more generous if he’s willing to sign.

[joec]

[quote=UCGal][quote=paramount]I’m sorry if I misunderstand or missed something, if I may are you renting her a room at your house?[/quote]
No – a detached 1 br. granny flat on our property.[/quote]

Is a lot of the concern due to it being on your property and they or you share utility expenses?
I’m assuming everyone is on the same water/power/gas meter so her utilities just doubled…

I was just thinking if this was an apartment or something, no one would know pretty much of a new person…

I moved in with my g/f -> wife way back and she never notified the management I don’t think. They didn’t seem to care really since they see me around all the time and I talk to the manager too.

[moneymaker]

EconProf from this link http://www.wimer.net/landlord/a/landlords_rights.pdf it states
“Also, you cannot evict you
while the lease is in effect, except for reasons
such as your damaging the property or failing to
pay rent. A lease gives you and the tenant the security of a
long-term agreement at a known rent.
The disadvantage of a lease is that if the tenant
ends up being undersirable, but complies with
the terms of the lease you must ride out the term.”
I believe marriage is a protected category as far as discrimination goes, so if you want to risk a lawsuit evict away.
My personal take would be if he spends less than half the nights there he is not a tenant.

[UCGal]

[quote=moneymaker]EconProf from this link http://www.wimer.net/landlord/a/landlords_rights.pdf it states
“Also, you cannot evict you
while the lease is in effect, except for reasons
such as your damaging the property or failing to
pay rent. A lease gives you and the tenant the security of a
long-term agreement at a known rent.
The disadvantage of a lease is that if the tenant
ends up being undersirable, but complies with
the terms of the lease you must ride out the term.”
I believe marriage is a protected category as far as discrimination goes, so if you want to risk a lawsuit evict away.
My personal take would be if he spends less than half the nights there he is not a tenant.[/quote]
It doesn’t matter if marital status is a protected status (which I don’t think it is)… If the lease states a specific occupancy, and the new spouse exceeds that occupancy – you’re in violation of the lease and need to ask to have the lease amended.

I’ve got an email out to an attorney.

As I said – I’m not trying to be a jerk and say she can’t have him spend the night…. but every night for an extended period raises red flags that he’s moving in, and I want to work with her, while still protecting my rights to choose who is renting.

California appears to be pretty flakey on the whole de-facto tenant and sub-tenant rulings… I don’t want to get screwed.

[EconProf]

[quote=moneymaker]EconProf from this link http://www.wimer.net/landlord/a/landlords_rights.pdf it states
“Also, you cannot evict you
while the lease is in effect, except for reasons
such as your damaging the property or failing to
pay rent. A lease gives you and the tenant the security of a
long-term agreement at a known rent.
The disadvantage of a lease is that if the tenant
ends up being undersirable, but complies with
the terms of the lease you must ride out the term.”
I believe marriage is a protected category as far as discrimination goes, so if you want to risk a lawsuit evict away.
My personal take would be if he spends less than half the nights there he is not a tenant.[/quote]

Moneymaker, I thought you were saying if she marries him then the landlord cannot prevent him from moving in with her. What you quoted does not change that. Landlord rented to one person, and he/she cannot be forced to take on another person unwillingly. Also, the extra person adds to utility usage, wear and tear, extra parked car, etc. And what if the new hubby has kids. Can they also be forced upon the landlord?

[mike92104]

[quote=UCGal][quote=moneymaker]EconProf from this link http://www.wimer.net/landlord/a/landlords_rights.pdf it states
“Also, you cannot evict you
while the lease is in effect, except for reasons
such as your damaging the property or failing to
pay rent. A lease gives you and the tenant the security of a
long-term agreement at a known rent.
The disadvantage of a lease is that if the tenant
ends up being undersirable, but complies with
the terms of the lease you must ride out the term.”
I believe marriage is a protected category as far as discrimination goes, so if you want to risk a lawsuit evict away.
My personal take would be if he spends less than half the nights there he is not a tenant.[/quote]
It doesn’t matter if marital status is a protected status (which I don’t think it is)… If the lease states a specific occupancy, and the new spouse exceeds that occupancy – you’re in violation of the lease and need to ask to have the lease amended.

I’ve got an email out to an attorney.

As I said – I’m not trying to be a jerk and say she can’t have him spend the night…. but every night for an extended period raises red flags that he’s moving in, and I want to work with her, while still protecting my rights to choose who is renting.

California appears to be pretty flakey on the whole de-facto tenant and sub-tenant rulings… I don’t want to get screwed.[/quote]

When I was renting, it was very normal to have a clause saying I couldn’t have any guests for more than 14 days without the landlords prior approval. Approval typically meant a full credit check, and adding said guest to the lease.

[CA renter]

[quote=njtosd][quote=UCGal]We’ve talked to her and gave her two options –
– Higher rent if he stays.
– Have him stay less.

She’s interested in the second option. I’m trying to figure out reasonable guidelines for the “staying less” part.[/quote]

I am not a real estate attorney, and you might want to talk to one, but I would think about two things: (1) Can he prove he has another place where he can legally reside? (Is he hanging out because they’re in love or because it’s convenient.) Harder to argue he’s your tenant if he has a lease somewhere else. (2) Have him sign a document saying that he is not now, and will never claim to be your tenant until/unless he signs a lease with you.

Again, I would talk to a lawyer to see if such an agreement is legal/would hold up, and what the ramifications would be. But you have some leverage now to say that you’ll be more generous if he’s willing to sign.[/quote]

Agree with what njtosd wrote here.

I had a similar problem, but they were actually living in my house (I owned the house and rented rooms out). Mind you, this house was under 1,300 sf. Three of my roommates had boyfriends who ended up living with us. Two of them were sneaking them through their bedroom windows so that I wouldn’t find out. I kicked those two roommates out (that, and they were both stealing stuff…and one was having sex in my bed when I was gone!). The third one had a boyfriend who “moved in” from day one. Eventually, I asked them to pay more rent since he was there everyday; he didn’t even have another place to live. That worked out well enough, but the guy liked to use my stuff, eat my food, and sit around on the couch in his bathrobe all day, etc. I never would have rented to him if he were the one to apply for the rental. The girlfriend, OTOH, was really helpful and an excellent roommate, outside of the boyfriend thing, so that’s why I put up with it for almost two years.

Best of luck to you, UCGal! This stuff can really suck. 🙁

[spdrun]

(that, and they were both stealing stuff…and one was having sex in my bed when I was gone!)

Did you ever consider acquiring a pet snake and training it to sleep in your bed? The footage of roomie’s head hitting the ceiling would have been Youtube-worthy…

[CDMA ENG]

UC…

From the humanistic point I think I would say that they would want to spend most weekends together as young couples typically do.

So you have roughly 8 days a month for “sleep overs”…

Which, btw, I am sure he is spending by sleeping on the couch! Kidding of course.

Plus the one or two odd weekdays…

So what is reasonable? Maybe 10 or 12 days?

Problem is that if you are actually counting the days there is an extra car outside… You seem invasive…

Good luck with the problem and keep us posted this is the reason I come to Piggingtons is to hear case scenarios like this.

Regards as always,

CE

[NotCranky]

I did not raise my tenants rent last year and already told him I won’t in 2014….Merry Christmas!

[no_such_reality]

Check with a lawyer, but if you have the 14 day clause that says request in writing and they don’t request in writing, they they don’t have tenant rights

It’s a really stupid part if California law an the courts tht allow someone without a lease o claim tenancy

[CA renter]

[quote=Blogstar]I did not raise my tenants rent last year and already told him I won’t in 2014….Merry Christmas![/quote]

Yay! 🙂

Very cool, Russ!

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