Question for the Pigglords…. Overnight guest rules for tenants

[UCGal]

We have a tenant, she has a boyfriend. They appear to be in love.
Our lease states that transient houseguests are allowed – but doesn’t define transient.
Boyfriend is here every night. We want to set *reasonable* rules so that he isn’t considered a de-facto tenant or a subtenant.

Apparently CA law is variable and vague on the subject. So a lot of landlords put in language about no more than 7 consecutive days, no more than 15 days per 6 months. That seems pretty restrictive based on my vague recollection of being single.

I want to be reasonable AND not accidentally pick up a new off-lease tenant with legal rights if we have to evict in the future. (I’m not forseeing eviction with our tenant, but know very little about her friend.)

I don’t want to be a jerk. But I want to protect our legal interests.

Any advice.

[NotCranky]

I talk to my tenants about it before they move in. I tell them I understand overnight guests but since we negotiated the tenancy as single occupancy that more than a few nights a week was too much except for maybe an out of town guest a few times a year. I explain the possible choices of renegotiating the lease if they addressed the situation before any actual occupancy like situation took place. I let them know that extra tenants without negotiation are grounds for notice and I don’t have to give a reason when and if I feel it occurs.

Only one tenant abused it, bringing a boyfriend with her on the very first day! It was resolved quickly.

If I were you, I would tell her it bothers you how much her BF stays there compared to the occupancy you negotiated with her. I don’t think you need boat loads of legal precedence and boiler plate behind you…You need to know how she is going to act to your legitimate concerns and either get her to have him over less, screen him and possibly renegotiate the contract, or give notice (offer to accept her giving notice first).

Some may disagree with offering to let the tenant give notice, but it has worked well for me in the two instances I wanted someone out over their behavior.

[FlyerInHi]

I never had that problem. But it’s good to add it to the list is things yo discuss with the tenant ahead of time.

[UCGal]

We’ve talked to her and gave her two options –
– Higher rent if he stays.
– Have him stay less.

She’s interested in the second option. I’m trying to figure out reasonable guidelines for the “staying less” part.

[Hobie]

How about M-Th=$
Weekends=Free

..sounds like a Verizon ad.:)

[paramount]

I’m sorry if I misunderstand or missed something, if I may are you renting her a room at your house?

[NotCranky]

[quote=UCGal]We’ve talked to her and gave her two options –
– Higher rent if he stays.
– Have him stay less.

She’s interested in the second option. I’m trying to figure out reasonable guidelines for the “staying less” part.[/quote]

Maybe she is afraid of you screening him. If he stays there you have to screen him. I doubt you have the leverage to do that if he does come over less from now on, but if you negotiate rent increase make it conditional on screening him.

I’d find out what his name is an google him at the least. Run his license plate. I know you are good at this stuff!

[moneymaker]

When I got married my wife moved in with me, I had a lease. The management pressed for her to “be put on the lease”. We ignored them. They eventually stopped asking, maybe they realized they had no legal ground to stand on. So just to let you know if she marries said boyfriend there is nothing you can do about him living there, just another point of view. I believe this law would also apply to caretakers.

[UCGal]

[quote=paramount]I’m sorry if I misunderstand or missed something, if I may are you renting her a room at your house?[/quote]
No – a detached 1 br. granny flat on our property.

[UCGal]

[quote=moneymaker]When I got married my wife moved in with me, I had a lease. The management pressed for her to “be put on the lease”. We ignored them. They eventually stopped asking, maybe they realized they had no legal ground to stand on. So just to let you know if she marries said boyfriend there is nothing you can do about him living there, just another point of view. I believe this law would also apply to caretakers.[/quote]
From my internet googling – it appears that the legality varies from state to state. In CA – I’ve seen two legal sites that state that if the person stays for 30 days they are now a de-facto tenant or subtenant. I saw that in NJ or NY (forgot which) it’s strictly a number of people thing – folks can rotate through and the landlord may have no clue who the current tenants are.

The problem in California is that if a houseguest becomes a sub-tenant or de-facto tenant -they have all the rights of a tenant – in that it gets hard to evict them. So someone I don’t know, someone I didn’t screen, someone who could be cooking meth or worse… could be living there and I’d have to go through eviction to get them out. And I wouldn’t have a legal agreement with them (rental agreement/lease) so the rules aren’t laid out. Eviction gets expensive…

You say there’s nothing I can do if he moves in at the permission of my tenant – that’s not true. She’d be in violation of her lease and I could give a) 3 day notice to remedy or quit. (she could kick him out – remedy, or vacate- quit).

I’m not a total jerk… I’m trying to figure out the balance here… how to not have someone with “tenant” rights who I didn’t rent to, didn’t screen, etc. But I’m not trying to tell her who to date, etc… If he lives elsewhere they can spend some nights there – spread the love around…. rather than put me in a legally iffy place of having tenant rights given to someone I have no legal contract with.

If it matters – we cut her a break in rent in part because it was ONE person. The lease is clear that it is for her use, and her use alone. Houseguests and/or family members are only transient visitors.

[UCGal]

One more comment. We really like her as a tenant. Just trying to protect our legal backsides.

[moneymaker]

UCGal I did not say there is nothing you can do if he moves in without marrying her. I said there is nothing you can do if they get married and he moves in, big difference. If they get married then he would be protected by law, same as if he were her care giver, i.e. if she needed a care giver, which is probably not the case.

[spdrun]

As long as BF isn’t there all the time and has his own place, he’d be hard-pressed to prove that he’s become a de-facto tenant.

As far as illegal activities like cooking meth, wouldn’t those be grounds for quick eviction (if not police action) in themselves?

[EconProf]

[quote=moneymaker]UCGal I did not say there is nothing you can do if he moves in without marrying her. I said there is nothing you can do if they get married and he moves in, big difference. If they get married then he would be protected by law, same as if he were her care giver, i.e. if she needed a care giver, which is probably not the case.[/quote]
I really doubt that.
Documentation please.

[NotCranky]

An unscreened, self invited male makes the neighbors nervous too. This is especially true in a “family” neighborhood.

[Author]

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