Over 21% of homeowners in SD County have paid off houses

[an]

[quote=flu]Well I’ve “earned it”. I definitely deserve not to be taxed more for it… And I’m glad everyone agrees I shouldn’t have to pay more taxes for it. Even if it didn’t come from traditional “sweat equity”….Oh wait….[/quote]
No, you just don’t get it. YOU didn’t earn it. So, shut up and pay up.

[no_such_reality]

I don’t think anybody is faulting or denying someone a reasonable pension for working 40+ years. In fact many of pension currently being drawn are quite modest.

The problem is the 90s/00s giveaways, particularly to ‘safety’ workers. That resulted in pension spikes like this for OCFA.

And no, none of the changes made for pension reform change this for existing employees, just new hires.

[Coronita]

[quote=AN][quote=flu]Well I’ve “earned it”. I definitely deserve not to be taxed more for it… And I’m glad everyone agrees I shouldn’t have to pay more taxes for it. Even if it didn’t come from traditional “sweat equity”….Oh wait….[/quote]
No, you just don’t get it. YOU didn’t earn it. So, shut up and pay up.[/quote]

Well, since most of my earnings this year is in an IRA, I guess I don’t need to pay for it, not now at least….Lol….

[no_such_reality]

[quote=flu]
Well, since most of my earnings this year is in an IRA, I guess I don’t need to pay for it, not now at least….Lol….[/quote]

I know you’ve heard of a required minimum distribution.

Have you heard of the Excessive Distribution Minimum Tax?

[sym]

[quote=CA renter][quote=bearishgurl]I’m rather incensed that some Piggs (usually those who haven’t worked very long) are stating that pensions are “entitlements.”

They are NOT, in any way, shape or form “entitlements.” They are earned and paid for by the employee and employer as part of their pay package.

If you want one for yourself, they STILL exist in the public and private sector (even if somewhat “dumbed down” from the past). Everyone is free to attempt to “vest themselves” into a defined-benefit plan. You do whatever it takes to get vested and you earn one for yourself.

Plain and simple.

Any takers out there??[/quote]

Well said, BG. DB pensions were earned by working hard over many years. This is deferred compensation, nobody is asking for a “freebie.”

If people don’t like being salaried, then fight for hourly work. Of course, many salaried people wouldn’t do this because they would make far, far less for the same work as hourly employees.

And BG is right, there are still plenty of jobs available for those who qualify. If you want to have these “better” jobs/benefits, step right up. These jobs are open to the general public.[/quote]

BG, I am not saying pensions are an entitlement. IMO pension is just like any other work benefit e.g health/dental/flex/parking… Today some companies provide and many don’t.

Also with passing decades corporate benefits vary, and that is the evolving nature of workplace. Not much to complain about. What was offered as pensions in the past is available for most employees in the form of other retirement benefits.

I don’t have pension, but my Dad has one. I also know my Dad’s pension plan was revised over the years. Would I like one? Most likely. Do I miss not having one? Definitely not.

What bothered me (and perhaps few others) was your reference to people having not worked long enough yet willing to complain about someone with pension benefits 🙂

I don’t see the analogy – why does it matter how many years some one has worked. If one can work less hours and are able to spend more time with family/community work, I say more power to them for effectively managing their time and resources.

CAR, in my mind pensions are employment benefits, just like 401k’s. One can choose to have one or not. If one is enrolled (optionally/not) it is something to use after reaching a predefined age.

I know for a fact 401k balance follows the market, so there is no guarantee one will have the projected nest egg when the age limit is reached. Pensions perhaps predefined, BUT certainly not off limits to market variations.

The one other point I did not follow was the distinction between salaried worker moving to hourly work. If the salaried employee (most like exempt) does not like it, one certainly has the option to change to an hourly work. There is no difference between a salaried worker switching to an hourly worker and one who was initially hired as an hourly worker. The rates are market based, and companies can’t certainly have classifications of exempt, exempt but hourly, or ‘true’ hourly worker.

[(former)FormerSanDiegan]

[quote=bearishgurl]
FSD, would you rather be coming and going from the office as you please (to finish some tasks at home) or work 1-2 full days per week from home while the laundry is going and your toddler and preschooler are sitting on a blanket watching TV (for “free”) and subsequently “bothered” by your smartphone 12 hrs per day, OR:

dress up, commute EVERY day, five days per week, arrive 20-25 mins early so you can pay to park (must have correct change/no monthly pkg avail), walk seven blocks to the office, check in with supervisor immediately and do “face time” all day until the “bell” rings at 5:00 pm and then walk (uphill) in a dress/skirt back up to your “cheaper lot” in the dusk/dark where you find a homeless person who has spread his sleeping bag next to your right-front wheel and as you approach your vehicle you discover he is urinating on your tire.

[/quote]

I’m pretty sure I wouldn’t do the job that requires walking the streets in the dark/dusk wearing a dress.

(Was that uphill both ways in 10 feet of snow ?)

[(former)FormerSanDiegan]

BG – I agree that for the most part pensions were earned. That was part of the deal, part of the compensation. That’s what people signed up for when they got their job shuffling boxes of papers while they stared at their bosses’ face and spun a dial on a telephone with an eraser.

[Coronita]

[quote=no_such_reality][quote=flu]
Well, since most of my earnings this year is in an IRA, I guess I don’t need to pay for it, not now at least….Lol….[/quote]

I know you’ve heard of a required minimum distribution.

Have you heard of the Excessive Distribution Minimum Tax?[/quote]

Yes. My relatives are very familiar with this.

The trick is if you do decide to take a sabatical from working in the future, that would be a good time to do a traditional IRA to Roth IRA conversion, when that year your income is low.. No penalty for early withdrawal, though you pay taxes on taking the distribution.

Also, there are 9 ways you can early withdraw from an IRA without penalty… And given my specific situation, at least one of them most likely will apply…

http://www.investopedia.com/articles/retirement/02/111202.asp#axzz2IwawAWDP

[bearishgurl]

[quote=sym]BG, I am not saying pensions are an entitlement. IMO pension is just like any other work benefit e.g health/dental/flex/parking… Today some companies provide and many don’t.

Also with passing decades corporate benefits vary, and that is the evolving nature of workplace. Not much to complain about. What was offered as pensions in the past is available for most employees in the form of other retirement benefits.

I don’t have pension, but my Dad has one. I also know my Dad’s pension plan was revised over the years. Would I like one? Most likely. Do I miss not having one? Definitely not.

What bothered me (and perhaps few others) was your reference to people having not worked long enough yet willing to complain about someone with pension benefits 🙂

I don’t see the analogy – why does it matter how many years some one has worked. If one can work less hours and are able to spend more time with family/community work, I say more power to them for effectively managing their time and resources.

CAR, in my mind pensions are employment benefits, just like 401k’s. One can choose to have one or not. If one is enrolled (optionally/not) it is something to use after reaching a predefined age.

I know for a fact 401k balance follows the market, so there is no guarantee one will have the projected nest egg when the age limit is reached. Pensions perhaps predefined, BUT certainly not off limits to market variations.

The one other point I did not follow was the distinction between salaried worker moving to hourly work. If the salaried employee (most like exempt) does not like it, one certainly has the option to change to an hourly work. There is no difference between a salaried worker switching to an hourly worker and one who was initially hired as an hourly worker. The rates are market based, and companies can’t certainly have classifications of exempt, exempt but hourly, or ‘true’ hourly worker.[/quote]

sym, you weren’t the one(s) that said that pensions were “entitlements.”

Perhaps you have not been able to read thru the dozens of “public pension slapfest” threads on this forum. Yes, there are dozens, filled with ignorant posts by uninformed posters. Some of the chief complainants are those whose signature on their college diplomas are still damp (the under-35 group). If they have a Bachelor’s degree, they may have been working FT 3-12 years and if they have a masters degree, they may have been working FT 1-10 years.

The Piggs with doctorates either earned a defined benefit pension themselves, are in the process of doing so and/or have a full understanding themselves as to how defined benefit plans work 🙂

I’m not trying to put anyone down here. The way defined benefit plans are funded and calculated can be very complex and difficult for the layperson to understand.

When I was early-mid career (in whatever peon classification I held), I would never have dreamt of complaining about a pension that a worker 20-40 years older than myself earned throughout their lives! Instead, I occupied my thoughts with how I could earn one for myself.

Every generation has to “support” someone. We supported the millions of “blue-haired ladies” of the Greatest Generation and a few of the WWII Gen. Nearly all of them got their hair and sometimes their nails done every week. They were ALL on SS and the vast majority who were widowed had little more than that or no income whatsoever beyond that. Why did us boomers have to “support” them all? Because 99% of them never held a paying job, or if they did, they were “self-employed” on a farm most of their lives, their job(s) were prior to the SS Act or they did not work long enough for a benefit. By law, they were able to latch onto the work record of a current spouse, deceased spouse or ex spouse to “qualify” for SS, which most collected from age 62 forward. Why so early, you ask? Because they could! If still married to a SS recipient, they took the benefit anyway as OASDI is not based upon “need.” For the many unmarried ones, there was great need. These are the American women who were my mother’s age but mostly my grandmother’s age . . . the Greatest Gen is dwindling fast and the WWII Gen is right behind them.

Not fair. I hope I see even 1/4 of what I have contributed into the bloated “system.” And I’m likely a helluva lot closer to becoming “eligible” than most of you.

As to your comment about `managing one’s time wisely,’ most of the current civilian (and a few govm’t) hourly workforce now has the option of taking advantage of coming into work late, going home early or even working from home.

Workers in previous generations did not have the option to “manage their time wisely.” Of course, most did so while “on the clock,” to produce what was expected of them in their allotted eight hours. This didn’t get them “flextime,” allow them to come and go as they pleased or allow them to “telecommute.” Occasionally, one could earn “comp time” on their paystub (paid at the rate of hour for hour) if they came in on a Saturday for 4-8 hours of “file projects” under the direction of a supervisor, who was present. The M-F choices were either “face time” or “leave time.” IOW, any absences from the office came off the worker’s leave balances, making it impossible for many with impromptu kid or caregiver problems to ever take a vacation, because they were perpetually out of leave. “Work-life benefits” were virtually unheard of.

I think FSD was making a distinction that he/she was unfamiliar with the “hourly-worker world” (which is essentially representative of the vast majority of US workers in conformance with Federal law). FSD alluded that, as a “salaried worker,” he/she was was often at his/her employer’s “beck and call” 24/7.

Everyone has choices and can seek and accept an hourly position over a salaried position. Especially if they feel they have been taken advantage of by employer(s) in the past.

You are correct in your definition of defined benefit pensions and defined contribution retirement plans.

[bearishgurl]

[quote=FormerSanDiegan]BG – I agree that for the most part pensions were earned. That was part of the deal, part of the compensation. That’s what people signed up for when they got their job shuffling boxes of papers while they stared at their bosses’ face and spun a dial on a telephone with an eraser.[/quote]

You’re damned right they were “earned” ;=]

[bearishgurl]

[quote=FormerSanDiegan] … I’m pretty sure I wouldn’t do the job that requires walking the streets in the dark/dusk wearing a dress.

(Was that uphill both ways in 10 feet of snow ?)[/quote]

Aren’t you a “former San Diegan?”

Surely if you are you must be familiar with the “gritty city” it once was and know which hills I’m talking about, right?

And you also must be aware that we don’t have any snow here in what we now refer to as “America’s Finest City.” :=P

That’s your bailiwick.

I don’t know how long you’ve been gone but maybe you should give some consideration to coming back to San Diego for a visit so you can take a mental note of everything that has happened downtown in your absence. You might be shocked 🙂

[SK in CV]

[quote=flu]Well I’ve “earned it”. I definitely deserve not to be taxed more for it… And I’m glad everyone agrees I shouldn’t have to pay more taxes for it. Even if it didn’t come from traditional “sweat equity”….Oh wait….[/quote]

You don’t pay more taxes for it.

[SK in CV]

[quote=no_such_reality][quote=flu]
Well, since most of my earnings this year is in an IRA, I guess I don’t need to pay for it, not now at least….Lol….[/quote]

I know you’ve heard of a required minimum distribution.

Have you heard of the Excessive Distribution Minimum Tax?[/quote]

That was repealed in the TRA of ’97. I don’t think it’s been reinstated.

[ltsddd]

I didn’t realize there are that many miserable people on this board. Really.

[CA renter]

[quote=no_such_reality]I don’t think anybody is faulting or denying someone a reasonable pension for working 40+ years. In fact many of pension currently being drawn are quite modest.

The problem is the 90s/00s giveaways, particularly to ‘safety’ workers. That resulted in pension spikes like this for OCFA.

And no, none of the changes made for pension reform change this for existing employees, just new hires.

[/quote]

You do realize that the pension spike noted in this chart is due to the “economic crisis,” and not the enhanced benefits (which are, and will continue to be, addressed via increased employee contribution rates), right?

Not only that, but most of the pension reforms do indeed apply to current workers.

Not sure where you’re getting your info from, but it’s wholly inaccurate.

[Author]

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