Over 21% of homeowners in SD County have paid off houses

[an]

BG and Essbee, of course if you only contribute 3% into your 401A, then their match would seem big. For a typical RN ($70k/yr), you’re talking about $2100/year. No wonder savings rate is so horrible. If you actually max out your 401A + 403B, then it would be 81% employee and 19% Scripps. So, yes, you’re right, if you’re a low achieving saver, then the company contribute a HUGE amount. But if you are actually a rabid saver, then it’s not that big. Also, that only for you if you work there 20+ years. For the first 9 years, you only get 1/2 of that. For those who work their the first 9 years, it’s 90.5% employee and 9.5% Scripps (if you’re actually a saver).

[bearishgurl]

[quote=AN]BG and Essbee, of course if you only contribute 3% into your 401A, then their match would seem big. For a typical RN ($70k/yr), you’re talking about $2100/year. No wonder savings rate is so horrible. If you actually max out your 401A + 403B, then it would be 81% employee and 19% Scripps. So, yes, you’re right, if you’re a low achieving saver, then the company contribute a HUGE amount. But if you are actually a rabid saver, then it’s not that big. Also, that only for you if you work there 20+ years. For the first 9 years, you only get 1/2 of that. For those who work their the first 9 years, it’s 90.5% employee and 9.5% Scripps (if you’re actually a saver).[/quote]

Whatever percentage it is, AN . . . it’s “free money, compounded.”

It’s kind of hard to be a “rabid saver” if one only works one day per week (or less).

If you or your spouse had a retirement plan where an employer matches your funds in ANY amount, this would GREATLY assist you in inching closer to your $5M retirement goal.

But I’m still not sure if you will be able to achieve your financial goals by age 50. That seems a bit over-the-top grand, to me.

The VA Hospital has a defined benefit plan in combination with TSP. It’s truly a win, win for their (civil-service) employees.

These plans are wonderful for those employees who can save at least the maximum matchable amount towards their retirement fund out of every paycheck 🙂

[an]

[quote=bearishgurl]Whatever percentage it is, AN . . . it’s “free money, compounded.”[/quote]One, it’s not free money. You work for that. Two, I said you’re wrong WRT the 60%. I never said company matching isn’t a good thing.

[quote=bearishgurl]It’s kind of hard to be a “rabid saver” if one only works one day per week (or less).[/quote]No it’s not. At least not for us. We’ve been doing it for years.

[(former)FormerSanDiegan]

[quote=bearishgurl]

Well, actually I DO have a clue what people do today to earn their pay as I am in/out of professional offices frequently. And at times I have stayed there to perform services I wasn’t able to perform at home.

An “hourly worker” isn’t tethered to their employer after their shift is up. That is against the law (in the absence of an employer paid standby or “on-call” allowance as well as a cell phone subsidy). I think you are confusing my position with a salaried worker. I was actually hourly, as were the vast majority of positions in my organization.

FormerSanDiegan, do you and your “Boomer colleagues” have pensions? If so, are they “defined benefit” pensions or does your employer match the funds you save in them?[/quote]

At my current and previous company there was no such thing as a defined benefit pension. They were defined contribution plans. Even my two recently retired colleagues who are not technically Boomers (they are older than that – “Greatest Generation” or whatever). No pension there either. Series of small companies/ start-ups and defined contribution plans for those guys.

Anyway, I guess I don’t interact with “hourly workers” those don’t really exist in engineering. I did work construction through college though.
Anyway, I can’t really relate to you and your universe with defined benefit plans and hourly worker drones who don;t think about work after 5:00.
So, I have nothing to say about them or their pensions, but just wanted to defend those folks who work in the more modern salaried environment that you were pointing out as lazy.

You and I simply live in orthogonal universes on this particular subject.

[earlyretirement]

[quote=FormerSanDiegan] I can’t really relate to you and your universe with defined benefit plans and hourly worker drones who don;t think about work after 5:00.
So, I have nothing to say about them or their pensions, but just wanted to defend those folks who work in the more modern salaried environment that you were pointing out as lazy.

You and I simply live in orthogonal universes on this particular subject.[/quote]

I agree with those that say that many in today’s generation have a much different working environment.

Just using my dad for example, he was a “company man” and retired with a big Fortune 500 company. He worked at the same company for 30 years. He was a really hard worker but for the most part he got to the office at 8 AM and left by 6PM, with few exceptions. I can’t remember him bringing work home with him too often. When he went on vacation it was all vacation and he didn’t check in with work and they certainly didn’t have email back then.

Fast forward to today’s working environment and for many of us, we are on call 24/7 as someone else mentioned. Back then they didn’t have Blackberries/Iphones/Smartphones where a client might get annoyed if you don’t answer within a few minutes. There was no Internet where things are instantly available. Things took much longer and it wasn’t instant like it is now. The efficiency just wasn’t there which meant they had more down time.

When we go on vacation, we still are working (at least I am). Plus the world is much different now and things are much more global. I have multiple offices in different countries across different time zones. Also, I have clients in almost every continent so I’m available when THEY are available. These types of things, most boomers didn’t have to deal with in their everyday working environments. Today’s generation it’s not uncommon to deal with clients/superiors in different countries.

I’m not going to say the boomers didn’t have their own stress. However, I’m sure it was very comforting to have the feeling in the back of their minds if they worked hard X years, the company was going to take care of them, or at least fund a big part of their retirement if they worked hard. Today’s generation doesn’t have that for the most part. No one is going to take care of us but us.

[bearishgurl]

[quote=FormerSanDiegan] . . . Anyway, I can’t really relate to you and your universe with defined benefit plans and hourly worker drones who don;t think about work after 5:00.

So, I have nothing to say about them or their pensions, but just wanted to defend those folks who work in the more modern salaried environment that you were pointing out as lazy…[/quote]

I never stated that salaried workers were “lazy.”

I stated that today’s workers have superior working conditions to those workers of decades past, both physically (due to technology) and superior work-life balance (due to worker-friendly laws passed in the last 20 years).

The vast majority of workers in the United States (including 85-90% of all government workers) are “hourly workers.” That is why we have the FLSA.

http://www.dol.gov/dol/cfr/Title_29/Chapter_V.htm

FSD, if you and your colleagues choose to be salaried or “salaried” is customary for your profession, far be it from me to judge that. But just know that you went into your “salaried profession” or “company who only pays on salary” with your eyes wide open.

[(former)FormerSanDiegan]

[quote=bearishgurl]

I never stated that salaried workers were “lazy.”

I stated that today’s workers have superior working conditions to those workers of decades past, both physically (due to technology) and superior work-life balance (due to worker-friendly laws passed in the last 20 years).

The vast majority of workers in the United States (including 85-90% of all government workers) are “hourly workers.” That is why we have the FLSA.

http://www.dol.gov/dol/cfr/Title_29/Chapter_V.htm

FSD, if you and your colleagues choose to be salaried or “salaried” is customary for your profession, far be it from me to judge that. But just know that you went into your “salaried profession” or “company who only pays on salary” with your eyes wide open.[/quote]

I was paraphrasing “lazy” wrt comments about sitting on their asses.

I have to completely disagree with you regarding work-life balance. Your comment may be true in the government or hourly sector as you’ve defined it.

But in the world I live in, there is no real way to have work life balance because the technologies and expectations have blurred the distinction between work and life. They are no longer on opposite ends of some fulcrum that labor laws move to the left or right to balance.

[(former)FormerSanDiegan]

[quote=earlyretirement]

Fast forward to today’s working environment and for many of us, we are on call 24/7 as someone else mentioned. Back then they didn’t have Blackberries/Iphones/Smartphones where a client might get annoyed if you don’t answer within a few minutes. There was no Internet where things are instantly available. Things took much longer and it wasn’t instant like it is now. The efficiency just wasn’t there which meant they had more down time.

When we go on vacation, we still are working (at least I am). Plus the world is much different now and things are much more global. I have multiple offices in different countries across different time zones. Also, I have clients in almost every continent so I’m available when THEY are available. These types of things, most boomers didn’t have to deal with in their everyday working environments. Today’s generation it’s not uncommon to deal with clients/superiors in different countries.

[/quote]

Couldn’t have said it better myself.

[bearishgurl]

[quote=FormerSanDiegan] . . . But in the world I live in, there is no real way to have work life balance because the technologies and expectations have blurred the distinction between work and life. They are no longer on opposite ends of some fulcrum that labor laws move to the left or right to balance.[/quote]

FSD, would you rather be coming and going from the office as you please (to finish some tasks at home) or work 1-2 full days per week from home while the laundry is going and your toddler and preschooler are sitting on a blanket watching TV (for “free”) and subsequently “bothered” by your smartphone 12 hrs per day, OR:

dress up, commute EVERY day, five days per week, arrive 20-25 mins early so you can pay to park (must have correct change/no monthly pkg avail), walk seven blocks to the office, check in with supervisor immediately and do “face time” all day until the “bell” rings at 5:00 pm and then walk (uphill) in a dress/skirt back up to your “cheaper lot” in the dusk/dark where you find a homeless person who has spread his sleeping bag next to your right-front wheel and as you approach your vehicle you discover he is urinating on your tire.

This was the life of a typical downtown SD hourly worker for at least 30 years.

Take your pick.

Current hourly workers now have choices described in the first scenario. The hourly workers of yesteryear did not have such choices. “Telecommuting” was absolutely unheard of.

[bearishgurl]

I’m rather incensed that some Piggs (usually those who haven’t worked very long) are stating that pensions are “entitlements.”

They are NOT, in any way, shape or form “entitlements.” They are earned and paid for by the employee and employer as part of their pay package.

If you want one for yourself, they STILL exist in the public and private sector (even if somewhat “dumbed down” from the past). Everyone is free to attempt to “vest themselves” into a defined-benefit plan. You do whatever it takes to get vested and you earn one for yourself.

Plain and simple.

Any takers out there??

[bearishgurl]

[quote=earlyretirement]Fast forward to today’s working environment and for many of us, we are on call 24/7 as someone else mentioned. Back then they didn’t have Blackberries/Iphones/Smartphones where a client might get annoyed if you don’t answer within a few minutes. There was no Internet where things are instantly available. Things took much longer and it wasn’t instant like it is now. The efficiency just wasn’t there which meant they had more down time.…[/quote]

ER, I’ve never had a position for which there was “downtime.” When the mainframe was “down,” it simply meant we had a lot more fancy footwork and phone calling to do until it came back up again.

Have you ever made 400 calls a day on a rotary phone with a pencil eraser??

[CA renter]

[quote=bearishgurl]I’m rather incensed that some Piggs (usually those who haven’t worked very long) are stating that pensions are “entitlements.”

They are NOT, in any way, shape or form “entitlements.” They are earned and paid for by the employee and employer as part of their pay package.

If you want one for yourself, they STILL exist in the public and private sector (even if somewhat “dumbed down” from the past). Everyone is free to attempt to “vest themselves” into a defined-benefit plan. You do whatever it takes to get vested and you earn one for yourself.

Plain and simple.

Any takers out there??[/quote]

Well said, BG. DB pensions were earned by working hard over many years. This is deferred compensation, nobody is asking for a “freebie.”

If people don’t like being salaried, then fight for hourly work. Of course, many salaried people wouldn’t do this because they would make far, far less for the same work as hourly employees.

And BG is right, there are still plenty of jobs available for those who qualify. If you want to have these “better” jobs/benefits, step right up. These jobs are open to the general public.

[earlyretirement]

[quote=bearishgurl]

ER, I’ve never had a position for which there was “downtime.” When the mainframe was “down,” it simply meant we had a lot more fancy footwork and phone calling to do until it came back up again.

Have you ever made 400 calls a day on a rotary phone with a pencil eraser??[/quote]

Nope. Admittedly, I’ve never had to make 400 calls a day on a rotary phone with a pencil eraser. I have however received over 700 emails in a 24 hour period with all of them expecting to have their email answered that same day. And not able to sleep until each and every one of them were answered. No ifs, ands or buts. And that’s while having meetings all day with employees, clients, vendors, etc.

I’m not even saying that you didn’t deserve your pension. I’ll go on record as saying that the majority of people out there that are receiving some pension probably deserve it through many decades of long, hard work.

Personally, I’d love a pension. And if I had one, you can be sure I’d be arguing why I deserved it. 🙂

[sym]

Wow! this is an active thread with morphing topics. Considering I am a relative new comer in this forum, and usually not one to talk about money or personal economics with anyone let alone in an open forum… I felt compelled to respond after catching up on the recent posts…

I don’t quite understand all the negativity about people not having pensions, and talking up one’s work better than someone else’s career path.

Each person is their own, and for better or worse we land in situations we are familiar and comfortable. There is no point comparing the work scenario from 20+ years ago to something today. If we objectively look, FWIW each generation does better than the previous generation. Obviously each generation will have folks who are better off than their peers, and what ever anyone says the differentiation is mostly based on “randomness” and the ability to act on that. (Not sure if this should become the next topic of conversation!!!) I also find older generation saying the newer generation is a bunch of spoiled brats 🙂

I consider myself savvy for my age, but the current crop of 20’s and 30’s put me to shame with their openness to adapt and change. Like the generation(s) before they will shape the society, and everyone will need to adapt, thrive and make it their own or be left behind.

On the topic of pensions, not sure if that is truly relevant. Some were lucky to find work in places/companies that offered such a social benefit. Over the years the same companies found it was no longer necessary, as the benefit changed to some other entity (perhaps the 401ks…).

IMO having a pension or a 401k is no guarantee it will be available when one truly needs it. After all the contributions are not directly controlled by the individual. These pensions and 401k are dominated by funds/stocks/treasuries/securities which follow societal changes. In this scenario it is only prudent for each of us to look after immediate family needs, and take care of their tribe in the best possible way they know how. Who better to assess one’s needs than self, and accumulate the necessary resources?

[Coronita]

Well I’ve “earned it”. I definitely deserve not to be taxed more for it… And I’m glad everyone agrees I shouldn’t have to pay more taxes for it. Even if it didn’t come from traditional “sweat equity”….Oh wait….

[Author]

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