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scaredyclassic.
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April 21, 2015 at 11:21 PM #785107April 21, 2015 at 11:25 PM #785110
NotCranky
Participant[quote=spdrun]Trials are already public.
Teachers aren’t typically armed and don’t have the power to kill someone essentially at will.
As far as hospitals, most surgery requires the patient’s informed consent. A bunch of cops jumping on someone, not so much.
Police need special oversight. If they don’t like it, they’re free to find another job. Over the top? Maybe. But we’ll have to agree to disagree.[/quote]
I can agree to disagree, However, a bunch of cops NOT jumping someone is the norm. A bunch of cops even when arresting a black man do not jump him or do anything violent if at all possible, that is the norm. Also unfortunately, too often when a mob sees something between a black man and a cop , or cops, they are hysterically mental and ready to go ballistic in favor of the black man when they don’t know a damn thing . It has been proven , when asked after the fact , that large numbers in these mobs lie about what has occurred. No justification for hordes on the backs of crime fighters.
April 21, 2015 at 11:25 PM #785108CA renter
Participant[quote=spdrun]If police (who are public servants … that’s right SERVANTS) are uncomfortable with the public, too fucking bad. Time to seek a new job or jump off a tall bridge. Can’t hack the job description … no one drafted them.
And people do belong near enough to film police work, considering the number of outright homicidal and violent cops these days. In many instances, the “mob” is doing the world a great service.[/quote]
People erroneously think that the inclusion of the word “servant” in the title means that they are like butlers or maids. That’s not what it means. It means that they are in the service industry working for the government; it does not mean that they are in a lower caste or whatever it is some people tend to think when they hear the word servant.
April 21, 2015 at 11:28 PM #785111spdrun
ParticipantIt means that they are in the service industry working for the government.
Of course. My point was that I don’t see them as the brave heroes that the post-9/11 media wants us to think of them as. They’re just hirelings.
Ultimately, they’re paid via tax money taken from the public. Therefore, they’re accountable to the public. The public has every right to film and scrutinize their actions.
If they don’t like it, they can change jobs.
April 21, 2015 at 11:31 PM #785112ParticipantNo justification for hordes on the backs of crime fighters.
“Crime fighters”, spare me. You’re making them seem like some sort of superheroes. If we got rid of 90% of our asinine drug and morality laws and set highway speed limits to reasonable levels, probably half of the crime they’re “fighting” would no longer exist.
April 21, 2015 at 11:32 PM #785109ParticipantFilming from a distance is reasonable in all cases. If a cop is (say) beating someone who’s on the ground and not attacking him, it’s the duty of the public to treat him like any other perpetrator of a criminal assault.
April 21, 2015 at 11:34 PM #785113Participant[quote=spdrun]
It means that they are in the service industry working for the government.
Of course. My point was that I don’t see them as the brave heroes that the post-9/11 media wants us to think of them as. They’re just hirelings.
Ultimately, they’re paid via tax money taken from the public. Therefore, they’re accountable to the public. The public has every right to film and scrutinize their actions.
If they don’t like it, they can change jobs.[/quote]
Wrong. They are paid by the government agency with whom they are employed. Public citizens are no more their bosses than they are the bosses of employees who work for Microsoft…owning a computer with Microsoft software doesn’t entitle them to any power over Microsoft employees.
Of course, if they deal with a particularly obnoxious employee, they are free to complain to the employer, whether that’s Microsoft, or Qualcomm, or the City of San Diego. But they don’t personally employ or have any control over individual employees, and the individual employees are not personally accountable to any of their employers’ customers.
It would be foolish for employees to cause problems with their employees customers, no matter the type of business they work for, but we have to be clear about the customer-employer-employee relationship.
April 21, 2015 at 11:34 PM #785114ParticipantUnlike private business, government and its police are special cases.
(a) the employees are literally given a power to kill
(b) people have no choice whether to do business with a given government. People can walk out of a restaurant with a rude waiter. They can’t just walk away from an encounter with a violent cop.April 21, 2015 at 11:37 PM #785115ParticipantI am going to go out on a limb and say there is a lot of hatred for cops because they are majority white and not of high education and they can be perceived to fall under the conservative family tree. Some people have shown their colors enough, that it is very easy to conclude that the hate and irrationality is rooted there.
April 21, 2015 at 11:39 PM #785116Participant[quote=spdrun]Unlike private business, government and its police are special cases.
(a) the employees are literally given a power to kill
(b) people have no choice whether to do business with a given government. People can walk out of a restaurant with a rude waiter. They can’t just walk away from an encounter with a violent cop.[/quote]Yes, customers do have a choice. When you move to a country, state, county, or city that has certain taxes, regulations, rules, ways of operating, etc., you are agreeing to the terms of that location. If you don’t like the terms of the agreement, don’t move there, or move somewhere else if you are already there. You can always choose to walk away.
BTW, you posted too quickly! I meant to correct my paragraph in my last post…change employee’s to employer’s.
April 21, 2015 at 11:46 PM #785118ParticipantCA Renter –
It’s not always practical to avoid certain locales. Given a “bad” police department, you could end up being assaulted or killed as a mere passer-by. Thus the need for scrutiny from the public, to get rid of the bad apples. Everyone can be affected, not just people who choose to live or work somewhere.
Read up on the poor guy from India who was visiting his son in Alabama, and got his neck broken for being the wrong color and walking on the street. Fortunately, the local police chief manned up and disavowed the actions of his officer. But public scrutiny and film evidence can serve to root out bad apples BEFORE they kill or maim someone.
April 21, 2015 at 11:47 PM #785117Participant[quote=spdrun]
No justification for hordes on the backs of crime fighters.
“Crime fighters”, spare me. You’re making them seem like some sort of superheroes. If we got rid of 90% of our asinine drug and morality laws and set highway speed limits to reasonable levels, probably half of the crime they’re “fighting” would no longer exist.[/quote]
Maybe poking you a little but you guys are making every cop out to be Brown Shirts and that’s just nuts. It’s a huge country with lots of not so constructive elements , some stuff is going to happen. Cops have never been the cream of the crop and we have been through all that. When cops screw up they should pay the price. Not letting anyone of them work reasonably isn’t the right price.
April 21, 2015 at 11:54 PM #785119FlyerInHi
Guest[quote=CA renter]
It’s still reasonable for people to stand at a distance to make sure things are kosher, but they do NOT need to be in cops’ faces when they are working.[/quote]
As if the cops would let people get in their faces.
As you said, it’s reasonable for passersby to film. It’s no different than witnesses of the past. Now, people just have smart phones they can use.
April 21, 2015 at 11:59 PM #785120GuestCAr just has the typical union mentality that wants to backup a union cop, no matter what.
There was an interesting article in NYT about some police unions rethinking supporting cops all the time, comes hell or high water. When it’s wrong, it’s wrong. There’s no defending.
April 22, 2015 at 12:33 AM #785122Guest[quote=Blogstar]I am going to go out on a limb and say there is a lot of hatred for cops because they are majority white and not of high education and they can be perceived to fall under the conservative family tree. Some people have shown their colors enough, that it is very easy to conclude that the hate and irrationality is rooted there.[/quote]
I don’t know about hate.
I just know that it is conservative value to look down upon those who don’t behave with grace and dignity. Community reproach to uncivilized behavior is the bedrock of conservatism.
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