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scaredyclassic.
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April 18, 2015 at 12:48 PM #784928April 18, 2015 at 1:08 PM #784929
scaredyclassic
ParticipantBuffalo Springfield – For What It’s Worth Lyrics
There’s something happening here
What it is ain’t exactly clear
There’s a man with a gun over there
Telling me I got to bewareI think it’s time we stop, children, what’s that sound
Everybody look what’s going downThere’s battle lines being drawn
Nobody’s right if everybody’s wrong
Young people speaking their minds
Getting so much resistance from behindIt’s time we stop, hey, what’s that sound
Everybody look what’s going downWhat a field-day for the heat
A thousand people in the street
Singing songs and carrying signs
Mostly say, hooray for our sideIt’s s time we stop, hey, what’s that sound
Everybody look what’s going downParanoia strikes deep
Into your life it will creep
It starts when you’re always afraid
You step out of line, the man come and take you awayWe better stop, hey, what’s that sound
Everybody look what’s going down
Stop, hey, what’s that sound
Everybody look what’s going down
Stop, now, what’s that sound
Everybody look what’s going down
Stop, children, what’s that sound
Everybody look what’s going downApril 18, 2015 at 1:17 PM #784930FlyerInHi
GuestI know I want scaredy to be my lawyer if I get in trouble.
Given that I’ve never been in trouble I wonder why I’m against cops who do things because they can.
I kinda admire lawyers because I like a well reasoned argument. Plus it’s eaier to fight crime by following the law. Lying turn cops into criminals.
April 18, 2015 at 2:40 PM #784931CA renter
Participant[quote=FlyerInHi]It’s all a question of incentives.
Cops will lie and the department will back up the cops because the incentives are to sustain a corrupt system, usually from the top on down. The incentives are self-preservation. It’s up to the leadership to not tolerate lies.
Defense attorney don’t have incentives other than winning a case, which in itself is powerful. But there is no personal investment on the part of the attorney.
Attorney may win cases on technicalities. But that’s due to inept prosecutors and cops who failed to follow the law.[/quote]
Cops back each other up because they are the only ones who truly understand what they are dealing with, day in and day out. They often have to make life-or-death decisions in split seconds. Decisions that will have lasting impacts on many people.
Sometimes, mistakes are made. But cops are judged by people who have absolutely no concept, whatsoever, of what they have to deal with every day. Cops have seen the ugliest underbelly of human society, and they have their hands in it every single day. They see dead husbands, wives, babies, unidentified girls or boys who look like their own kids, etc. They see torture, the extremes of mental insanity, and they see pure evil. They know, on a very personal level, how evil people can be…how people can have a total disregard for human lives. They deal with psychopaths and sociopaths on a regular basis. Sometimes, it’s not easy to tell the difference between an evil psychopath and a violent (but innocent, for the moment) punk when that decision has to be made in less than a second or two.
Cops back each other up because they know that their coworkers might be the only thing that keeps them from losing everything they’ve worked for in their lives — their families, homes, jobs, and freedom — if they make a single mistake during the course of their job. Just one single mistake is all it takes for them to lose everything, and they are all keenly aware of it.
I agree that some cops deserve to be fired, even jailed, and I agree that we need to do everything possible to keep innocent people out of jail; but most cops are just trying to do their job…an insanely difficult, stressful job.
April 18, 2015 at 2:58 PM #784932GuestSolidarity is a funny thing.
Would you provide and alibi to criminal behavior?
If you good friend or brother wants to commit adultery and asks to help out, you may just do so.
But lying like those cops did is just too much.CAr, I can understand backing each other like you describe in a mafia. But cops are law enforcement.
April 18, 2015 at 3:01 PM #784933Participant[quote=CA renter][quote=FlyerInHi]It’s all a question of incentives.
Cops will lie and the department will back up the cops because the incentives are to sustain a corrupt system, usually from the top on down. The incentives are self-preservation. It’s up to the leadership to not tolerate lies.
Defense attorney don’t have incentives other than winning a case, which in itself is powerful. But there is no personal investment on the part of the attorney.
Attorney may win cases on technicalities. But that’s due to inept prosecutors and cops who failed to follow the law.[/quote]
Cops back each other up because they are the only ones who truly understand what they are dealing with, day in and day out. They often have to make life-or-death decisions in split seconds. Decisions that will have lasting impacts on many people.
Sometimes, mistakes are made. But cops are judged by people who have absolutely no concept, whatsoever, of what they have to deal with every day. Cops have seen the ugliest underbelly of human society, and they have their hands in it every single day. They see dead husbands, wives, babies, unidentified girls or boys who look like their own kids, etc. They see torture, the extremes of mental insanity, and they see pure evil. They know, on a very personal level, how evil people can be…how people can have a total disregard for human lives. They deal with psychopaths and sociopaths on a regular basis. Sometimes, it’s not easy to tell the difference between an evil psychopath and a violent (but innocent, for the moment) punk when that decision has to be made in less than a second or two.
Cops back each other up because they know that their coworkers might be the only thing that keeps them from losing everything they’ve worked for in their lives — their families, homes, jobs, and freedom — if they make a single mistake during the course of their job. Just one single mistake is all it takes for them to lose everything, and they are all keenly aware of it.
I agree that some cops deserve to be fired, even jailed, and I agree that we need to do everything possible to keep innocent people out of jail; but most cops are just trying to do their job…an insanely difficult, stressful job.[/quote]
and therefore…
(a) we should believe them?
(b) we should not be surprised when they become as ugly as what they fight?
(c) we should not think that police officers routinely lie?
(d) other…
April 18, 2015 at 3:03 PM #784934NotCranky
ParticipantPolice don’t work for me I know that,most of them would bash my head in in a minute if told to do so, same with military. No need to point that out. My point simply was, everyone lies in court, or uses the potential to do so as power. However the incentives(for the attorney and the client) or ethics want to be construed.
April 18, 2015 at 3:37 PM #784936Participant[quote=Blogstar]Police don’t work for me I know that,most of them would bash my head in in a minute if told to do so, same with military. No need to point that out. My point simply was, everyone lies in court, or uses the potential to do so as power. However the incentives(for the attorney and the client) or ethics want to be construed.[/quote]
Can you see how the public trust and the system might be damaged in a far more severe way when police intentionally lie in court than when a defense attorney puts out an unlikely theory?
April 18, 2015 at 3:46 PM #784938Participant[quote=scaredyclassic][quote=Blogstar]Police don’t work for me I know that,most of them would bash my head in in a minute if told to do so, same with military. No need to point that out. My point simply was, everyone lies in court, or uses the potential to do so as power. However the incentives(for the attorney and the client) or ethics want to be construed.[/quote]
Can you see how the public trust and the system might be damaged in a far more severe way when police lie?[/quote]
I can see that. The current hysteria doesn’t seem to fit the causation factors. By current, I mean pretty much the time frame we have been talking about these things on Piggington’s. Paranoia can belong to the people, or subsets of us, too.
April 18, 2015 at 10:38 PM #784945Guest[quote=Blogstar]Police don’t work for me I know that,most of them would bash my head in in a minute if told to do so, same with military. No need to point that out. [/quote]
Actually, yes, there’s a need to point it out if that what you believe.
In society, cops and the military are “heroes” and they are given special trust and credibility. They are well paid and given healthcare and pensions. Aren’t they carefully vetted and given special training?
April 18, 2015 at 11:17 PM #784946ParticipantHave you guys seen the video of the 10 San Bernardino cops beating the guy who fled on a horse.
Sure doesn’t look like split second decisionmaking.
Looks like a standard street beatdown.
Question is, is that standard street procedure.
April 19, 2015 at 1:26 AM #784948Participant[quote=scaredyclassic]Have you guys seen the video of the 10 San Bernardino cops beating the guy who fled on a horse.
Sure doesn’t look like split second decisionmaking.
Looks like a standard street beatdown.
Question is, is that standard street procedure.[/quote]
No, I hadn’t seen that one. Here it is, for those who’ve also not seen it:
http://www.cnn.com/2015/04/10/us/california-san-bernardino-police-beating/
From what I can see, it certainly looks like the cops went overboard on that one. But I also don’t know what took place before that — did he lie down like that before, and then jump up and assault a cop or two before running off again? Maybe he did something like that multiple times. And this was supposedly a three-hour chase (according to the news clip), so lots of stuff happened before this. All of that will play a role in how the officers respond once they reach the suspect.
But just based on that particular clip, yes, the cops were wrong, IMO.
April 19, 2015 at 1:35 AM #784949Participant[quote=scaredyclassic][quote=CA renter][quote=FlyerInHi]It’s all a question of incentives.
Cops will lie and the department will back up the cops because the incentives are to sustain a corrupt system, usually from the top on down. The incentives are self-preservation. It’s up to the leadership to not tolerate lies.
Defense attorney don’t have incentives other than winning a case, which in itself is powerful. But there is no personal investment on the part of the attorney.
Attorney may win cases on technicalities. But that’s due to inept prosecutors and cops who failed to follow the law.[/quote]
Cops back each other up because they are the only ones who truly understand what they are dealing with, day in and day out. They often have to make life-or-death decisions in split seconds. Decisions that will have lasting impacts on many people.
Sometimes, mistakes are made. But cops are judged by people who have absolutely no concept, whatsoever, of what they have to deal with every day. Cops have seen the ugliest underbelly of human society, and they have their hands in it every single day. They see dead husbands, wives, babies, unidentified girls or boys who look like their own kids, etc. They see torture, the extremes of mental insanity, and they see pure evil. They know, on a very personal level, how evil people can be…how people can have a total disregard for human lives. They deal with psychopaths and sociopaths on a regular basis. Sometimes, it’s not easy to tell the difference between an evil psychopath and a violent (but innocent, for the moment) punk when that decision has to be made in less than a second or two.
Cops back each other up because they know that their coworkers might be the only thing that keeps them from losing everything they’ve worked for in their lives — their families, homes, jobs, and freedom — if they make a single mistake during the course of their job. Just one single mistake is all it takes for them to lose everything, and they are all keenly aware of it.
I agree that some cops deserve to be fired, even jailed, and I agree that we need to do everything possible to keep innocent people out of jail; but most cops are just trying to do their job…an insanely difficult, stressful job.[/quote]
and therefore…
(a) we should believe them?
(b) we should not be surprised when they become as ugly as what they fight?
(c) we should not think that police officers routinely lie?
(d) other…[/quote]
(d) other
We should listen to what they have to say, look at the evidence, and try to make a determination while also acknowledging that they are human and will probably make some mistakes along the way. We should also know that if we punish them too harshly for making a genuine mistake, then they will sometimes lie and back each other up when these mistakes are made. The problem, IMHO, is trying to distinguish a genuine mistake from a malicious act.
If we act like we want to burn them at the stake every time they slip up, then you can bet all your money that they will lie on a rather consistent basis.
April 19, 2015 at 9:09 AM #784953Participant[quote=FlyerInHi][quote=Blogstar]Police don’t work for me I know that,most of them would bash my head in in a minute if told to do so, same with military. No need to point that out. [/quote]
Actually, yes, there’s a need to point it out if that what you believe.
In society, cops and the military are “heroes” and they are given special trust and credibility. They are well paid and given healthcare and pensions. Aren’t they carefully vetted and given special training?[/quote]
I don’t think how bad cops are is a counter point to whether or not defense attorneys lie. That’s why it didn’t need to be pointed out. Not around a quote of anything I said, which it was. Red Herring.
Knowing the many anti-crime fighting elements in the system , from the meanest streets to the courts, is something one could gain some sympathy for police officers.
April 19, 2015 at 3:55 PM #784961GuestYou’re the one who is trying to draw an equivalence between lying by police officers and lying on the part of the defense. As scaredy pointed out, defense lawyers are not witnesses. Everything they know or don’t know is second hand.
Plus if you don’t believe the police works for you, then why even have sympathy for them? They don’t deserve it. Principles of justice are out the window. We just end up with mafia type justice.
I know people who sympathize with the police exactly because they believe that the police and military protect their way of life. That’s why they are willing to overlook extra judicial killings as collateral damage. Out of sight, out of mind.
BTW, some idiot Black dude, on drugs or something, walked off the side walk in front of me today. Had I hit him, I’d be in trouble. Do I wish some cop would “take him out of gene pool”, so to speak? No.
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