- This topic has 33 replies, 7 voices, and was last updated 11 years, 11 months ago by
scaredyclassic.
-
AuthorPosts
-
June 3, 2012 at 7:49 PM #744897June 3, 2012 at 8:06 PM #744905
bearishgurl
ParticipantUnfortunately, it isn’t fair to bail out student-loan debtors with public and private university degrees and even graduate degrees. There are many, MANY students (past and present) who elected NOT to pursue college past the certificate or associate degree level (public CC or “jr college” in other states) due to cost and not wanting to be a burden on their middle-aged parents with few assets. This DOESN’T MEAN these students who DID NOT elect to take debt out were not accepted into a university or were otherwise unqualified to be admitted. It means they didn’t go due to cost alone. Many went directly to work FT in a “family biz” upon HS or CC graduation.
Former students need to take responsibility for their choices. If a student borrowed enough for living expenses over and above tuition, fees and books, this is akin to a home-debtor taking “cash out” of their properties to purchase whatever they wanted with it. A young person of the same age who didn’t take out student loans did not have this cash to spend during those years.
I’ve also seen a lot of whining on the internet from middle-aged people who have elected to take out student loans to “retrain” at $1K+ per month institutions such as Nat’l University and Univ of Phoenix and now want Congress to forgive all or most of it. I don’t feel sorry for them at all. Those that owned property should have borrowed from it (like all the other FB’s did who bought vehicles/vacations, etc), used the funds to pay for their educations and then defaulted on their “secured” loan. It’s the American way. Why someone 50+ years of age or even 45+ years of age would borrow $100K+ or even $65K to obtain an advanced degree or credential from a private institution is absolutely beyond my comprehension! Practically speaking, they won’t be able to be employed long enough to pay it back (that is, if they actually get hired for the professional positions they trained for), let alone live long enough to pay all of it back.
These foolish individuals will undoubtedly take their student debt to their graves and it probably won’t come close to ever being satisfied.
The government guarantee thru Sallie Mae should be done away with and tuition and fees at both public and private universities would immediately begin reducing in price, accordingly. If this causes the “lofty and exalted professors, department heads and deans” to take huge cuts in pay (for working 18-32 hrs per week, nine months a year), so be it.
June 3, 2012 at 8:48 PM #744911scaredyclassic
ParticipantShould, but…probably won’t .
Doesn’t seem right to never be able to discharge tuition loans.
Maybe if people forfeited the degree? No license?
I mean, why be able to discharge a quarter million borrowed to start a failed pet grooming biz, but not a quarter million borrowed for law school tuition? Assuming u forfeit the degree.
Stay on the hook for borrowed living expenses.
June 3, 2012 at 9:16 PM #744913Participant[quote=squat250]Should, but…probably won’t .
Doesn’t seem right to never be able to discharge tuition loans.
Maybe if people forfeited the degree? No license?
I mean, why be able to discharge a quarter million borrowed to start a failed pet grooming biz, but not a quarter million borrowed for law school tuition? Assuming u forfeit the degree.
Stay on the hook for borrowed living expenses.[/quote]
scaredy, I could see being ineligible for a state license if your loan to obtain that license was discharged. But a degree is part of the student. It stays with them and you can’t take it away. In the case of an attorney, they HAVE that JD or LLM. You can’t take it away. This advanced degree could and does qualify them for many professional positions even if they cannot “practice” law.
I’ll use myself for an example here. In CA, JD’s, LLM’s and CPA’s also get to use their advanced degrees (and licensing, if applicable) for perks such as taking the CA RE Brokers exam. Peons like me can “qualify” to take it by virtue of the requisite education and experience as a RE Salesperson but my experience as a “Salesperson” is not “consecutive.” Thus, I don’t qualify to take it based upon this technicality. I didn’t have access to this “free” advanced education (by virtue of it being “discharged”). There are many THOUSANDS of people like me.
It’s a very (unfair) slippery slope.
June 3, 2012 at 9:22 PM #744914Participantscaredy, you’re probably aware that in a divorce proceeding, a degree conferred upon one of the parties or a personal injury award for injuries sustained by one of the parties is NOT dividable, by law. It belongs to the party who earned the degree or sustained the injury. As does the student-loan taken out by the party who received the education that it paid for.
These things are part of the person so affected. You can’t take away the education from their minds or the injury from their bodies. It belongs to no one else but the affected persons.
June 3, 2012 at 9:24 PM #744915ParticipantBut what if we changed the rules. As part of discharging the tuition loans u forfeit any right to claim the degree. You just flush the years down the toilet and they didn’t happen. No advantage other than what you might have learned.
Why not allow a do over in life?
Well I know.
The govt funds a lavish educational bureaucracy while students try to grab the brass ring.
So we require human sacrifices to alert the market that school is for fools.
June 3, 2012 at 9:26 PM #744916ParticipantSomehow seems wrong all around.
Particularly given societal brainwashing from early on that schooling is the way to get ahead.
June 3, 2012 at 9:29 PM #744917ParticipantWe don’t want anyone chained for life to debt…other than people who tried and failed to get ahead thru schooling?
June 3, 2012 at 9:49 PM #744919ParticipantI think most people don’t learn much in school.
What I learned; be very fast, be very thorough, be very paranoid you’re missing something very important.
Maybe that was worth the tuition in a way…
I think there are huge numbers of people out there who’d gladly give up the degree and any benefit or priviliege appertaining thereto to discharge the debt. I mean jeez if someone’s willing to admit they just wasted three or four years of their life, why not cut em some slack?
Eliminating govt guarantee of student loans is really a separate issue.
June 3, 2012 at 10:00 PM #744920Participant[quote=squat250]We don’t want anyone chained for life to debt…other than people who tried and failed to get ahead thru schooling?[/quote]
I understand what you’re trying to say here, scaredy. But there are many options for post-secondary “schooling” that do NOT require taking out exorbitant student loans.
There is ROP thru the CC’s (to learn to be a well-paid HVAC mechanic), for example; there is an Associate in Accounting which will allow one to be a well-paid payables/receivables or payroll specialist; there is a 9-18 month CC course (or <=$10K for a "private" school) to be a "medical assistant" or other medical or dental specialist; and, there is a bachelor degree at SDSU while living with parents to obtain a degree in various business fields while participating in a "work-study" program. The list is endless. Where I live, the most established realtors put their family members on staff whilst they simultaneously prepare them for state licensing. They work as receptionists, open-house sitters and even transaction coordinators for the successful agent/broker. There are so many ways to make money in lieu of spending the better part of a decade in school FT incurring debt that will take a lifetime (or MORE, lol) to pay back. Those students who elected to take on this exorbitant debt made poor choices when they had other, more feasible alternatives at their disposal. Sometimes a student needs to forego their pie-in-the-sky "dreams" of what they "think" they might want to do for a living and revise them to a more realistic and attainable goal. That's how life is. We all can't be celebrities.
June 3, 2012 at 10:11 PM #744921Participant[quote=squat250]…I think there are huge numbers of people out there who’d gladly give up the degree and any benefit or priviliege appertaining thereto to discharge the debt. I mean jeez if someone’s willing to admit they just wasted three or four years of their life, why not cut em some slack?
Eliminating govt guarantee of student loans is really a separate issue.[/quote]
scaredy, they CAN’T simply “give up” the degree. They EARNED it and the education they received is in their minds! We can’t now take this away from the person for the same reason that we can’t take away the past service of a (now “retired”) govm’t bureaucrat. They ALREADY EARNED their degrees/pensions! You can’t fix this now. It is in their MINDS. The rest of us DIDN’T have to go thru what it took to EARN that degree or pension.
You are correct in that eliminating “Sallie Mae” is a separate issue.
June 3, 2012 at 10:17 PM #744922
CoronitaParticipant[quote=bearishgurl]Unfortunately, it isn’t fair to bail out student-loan debtors with public and private university degrees and even graduate degrees. There are many, MANY students (past and present) who elected NOT to pursue college past the certificate or associate degree level (public CC or “jr college” in other states) due to cost and not wanting to be a burden on their middle-aged parents with few assets. This DOESN’T MEAN these students who DID NOT elect to take debt out were not accepted into a university or were otherwise unqualified to be admitted. It means they didn’t go due to cost alone. Many went directly to work FT in a “family biz” upon HS or CC graduation.
Former students need to take responsibility for their choices. If a student borrowed enough for living expenses over and above tuition, fees and books, this is akin to a home-debtor taking “cash out” of their properties to purchase whatever they wanted with it. A young person of the same age who didn’t take out student loans did not have this cash to spend during those years.
I’ve also seen a lot of whining on the internet from middle-aged people who have elected to take out student loans to “retrain” at $1K+ per month institutions such as Nat’l University and Univ of Phoenix and now want Congress to forgive all or most of it. I don’t feel sorry for them at all. Those that owned property should have borrowed from it (like all the other FB’s did who bought vehicles/vacations, etc), used the funds to pay for their educations and then defaulted on their “secured” loan. It’s the American way. Why someone 50+ years of age or even 45+ years of age would borrow $100K+ or even $65K to obtain an advanced degree or credential from a private institution is absolutely beyond my comprehension! Practically speaking, they won’t be able to be employed long enough to pay it back (that is, if they actually get hired for the professional positions they trained for), let alone live long enough to pay all of it back.
These foolish individuals will undoubtedly take their student debt to their graves and it probably won’t come close to ever being satisfied.
The government guarantee thru Sallie Mae should be done away with and tuition and fees at both public and private universities would immediately begin reducing in price, accordingly. If this causes the “lofty and exalted professors, department heads and deans” to take huge cuts in pay (for working 18-32 hrs per week, nine months a year), so be it.[/quote]
But it’s fair taxpayers should bailout public sector pension holders? I don’t get it.
June 3, 2012 at 10:18 PM #744923CoronitaParticipant[quote=squat250]Should, but…probably won’t .
Doesn’t seem right to never be able to discharge tuition loans.
Maybe if people forfeited the degree? No license?
I mean, why be able to discharge a quarter million borrowed to start a failed pet grooming biz, but not a quarter million borrowed for law school tuition? Assuming u forfeit the degree.
Stay on the hook for borrowed living expenses.[/quote]
I agree.
June 3, 2012 at 10:20 PM #744925CoronitaParticipantdelete
June 4, 2012 at 6:36 AM #744968ParticipantYou can’t take away the knowledge true. But you can take away the credential.
The law will be, on discharge of educational debt, the debtor shall be criminally prosecuted for fraud for claiming to possess the particular degree or to have attended law school for any purpose whatsoever (other than to explain a gap in time on a resume, and for that purpose there shall be a standardized form).
I doubt there is much useful in anyone’s mind from the 3 years of law school. Just residual anxiety and fear.
-
AuthorPosts
- You must be logged in to reply to this topic.