OT: Hydrogen car debuts in London 360 MPG

[Coronita]

[quote=threadkiller]My VW Jetta TDI(Diesel) gets 40+ mpg, is safe, can run on renewable energy(vegetable oil). So why am I not seeing more of them out there on the road? The new Diesel technology is way better than the older stuff. The same could be said for the Segway for pedestrian travel. I don’t have one (too expensive) but they do make sense for Postal workers, guards and others that walk a lot in their jobs. Is anybody seeing them at golf courses?
Did I mention that diesel is currently the cheapest fuel @ the gas station.[/quote]

VAG isn’t producing enough of them frankly for the states. They are(were) in short supply.

http://townhall-talk.edmunds.com/WebX/.ef391bb?displayRecent

[Rt.66]

Flu, CA taxes diesel 8.1 cents more than gasoline, add in about 8 cents a gallon refining cost for Gov. mandated ULSD and you get 16 cents. But, the Gov. mandated ULSD also creates the supply problems that add further to diesel cost:

“The phase-in of the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency’s (EPA) sulfur standards for diesel fuels has the potential to continue to influence diesel fuel prices. The logistics of delivery of ULSD to retail service stations can be a challenge. Most ULSD travels through pipelines on the way to bulk terminals for final transfer by tanker truck to retail stations. Other diesel fuels and petroleum products with a higher-sulfur content in the pipeline, storage, and local distribution systems might contaminate ULSD (jet fuel, for example, can have 3,000 ppm of sulfur). If contaminated, it may not be possible to correct a ULSD fuel batch by blending with additional low-sulfur product, and contaminated batches have to be returned to a refinery for reprocessing, a difficult and expensive problem. Even without potential delivery problems, it costs relatively more to produce ULSD fuel. “ http://www.eia.doe.gov/bookshelf/brochures/diesel/

I guess I should have said fuel taxes AND other Gov. caused expenses.

Yeah, “historically” diesel has been cheaper, just not in recent times. Diesel should be a lot cheaper always as it takes much less processing to make.

Diesel fuel is blessed with a lubricating quality that gasoline lacks. This is one of the reasons behind the success and longevity of diesel engines.

ULSD refines the natural lubricants out and then refiners must add back in chemicals to restore the lubricity. Would any of us be surprised if 5 years down the road we discover the “new” additives pollute more than the natural diesel lubricant they must now refine out?

[Rt.66]

Flu, CA taxes diesel 8.1 cents more than gasoline, add in about 8 cents a gallon refining cost for Gov. mandated ULSD and you get 16 cents. But, the Gov. mandated ULSD also creates the supply problems that add further to diesel cost:

“The phase-in of the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency’s (EPA) sulfur standards for diesel fuels has the potential to continue to influence diesel fuel prices. The logistics of delivery of ULSD to retail service stations can be a challenge. Most ULSD travels through pipelines on the way to bulk terminals for final transfer by tanker truck to retail stations. Other diesel fuels and petroleum products with a higher-sulfur content in the pipeline, storage, and local distribution systems might contaminate ULSD (jet fuel, for example, can have 3,000 ppm of sulfur). If contaminated, it may not be possible to correct a ULSD fuel batch by blending with additional low-sulfur product, and contaminated batches have to be returned to a refinery for reprocessing, a difficult and expensive problem. Even without potential delivery problems, it costs relatively more to produce ULSD fuel. “ http://www.eia.doe.gov/bookshelf/brochures/diesel/

I guess I should have said fuel taxes AND other Gov. caused expenses.

Yeah, “historically” diesel has been cheaper, just not in recent times. Diesel should be a lot cheaper always as it takes much less processing to make.

Diesel fuel is blessed with a lubricating quality that gasoline lacks. This is one of the reasons behind the success and longevity of diesel engines.

ULSD refines the natural lubricants out and then refiners must add back in chemicals to restore the lubricity. Would any of us be surprised if 5 years down the road we discover the “new” additives pollute more than the natural diesel lubricant they must now refine out?

[Rt.66]

Flu, CA taxes diesel 8.1 cents more than gasoline, add in about 8 cents a gallon refining cost for Gov. mandated ULSD and you get 16 cents. But, the Gov. mandated ULSD also creates the supply problems that add further to diesel cost:

“The phase-in of the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency’s (EPA) sulfur standards for diesel fuels has the potential to continue to influence diesel fuel prices. The logistics of delivery of ULSD to retail service stations can be a challenge. Most ULSD travels through pipelines on the way to bulk terminals for final transfer by tanker truck to retail stations. Other diesel fuels and petroleum products with a higher-sulfur content in the pipeline, storage, and local distribution systems might contaminate ULSD (jet fuel, for example, can have 3,000 ppm of sulfur). If contaminated, it may not be possible to correct a ULSD fuel batch by blending with additional low-sulfur product, and contaminated batches have to be returned to a refinery for reprocessing, a difficult and expensive problem. Even without potential delivery problems, it costs relatively more to produce ULSD fuel. “ http://www.eia.doe.gov/bookshelf/brochures/diesel/

I guess I should have said fuel taxes AND other Gov. caused expenses.

Yeah, “historically” diesel has been cheaper, just not in recent times. Diesel should be a lot cheaper always as it takes much less processing to make.

Diesel fuel is blessed with a lubricating quality that gasoline lacks. This is one of the reasons behind the success and longevity of diesel engines.

ULSD refines the natural lubricants out and then refiners must add back in chemicals to restore the lubricity. Would any of us be surprised if 5 years down the road we discover the “new” additives pollute more than the natural diesel lubricant they must now refine out?

[Rt.66]

Flu, CA taxes diesel 8.1 cents more than gasoline, add in about 8 cents a gallon refining cost for Gov. mandated ULSD and you get 16 cents. But, the Gov. mandated ULSD also creates the supply problems that add further to diesel cost:

“The phase-in of the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency’s (EPA) sulfur standards for diesel fuels has the potential to continue to influence diesel fuel prices. The logistics of delivery of ULSD to retail service stations can be a challenge. Most ULSD travels through pipelines on the way to bulk terminals for final transfer by tanker truck to retail stations. Other diesel fuels and petroleum products with a higher-sulfur content in the pipeline, storage, and local distribution systems might contaminate ULSD (jet fuel, for example, can have 3,000 ppm of sulfur). If contaminated, it may not be possible to correct a ULSD fuel batch by blending with additional low-sulfur product, and contaminated batches have to be returned to a refinery for reprocessing, a difficult and expensive problem. Even without potential delivery problems, it costs relatively more to produce ULSD fuel. “ http://www.eia.doe.gov/bookshelf/brochures/diesel/

I guess I should have said fuel taxes AND other Gov. caused expenses.

Yeah, “historically” diesel has been cheaper, just not in recent times. Diesel should be a lot cheaper always as it takes much less processing to make.

Diesel fuel is blessed with a lubricating quality that gasoline lacks. This is one of the reasons behind the success and longevity of diesel engines.

ULSD refines the natural lubricants out and then refiners must add back in chemicals to restore the lubricity. Would any of us be surprised if 5 years down the road we discover the “new” additives pollute more than the natural diesel lubricant they must now refine out?

[Rt.66]

Flu, CA taxes diesel 8.1 cents more than gasoline, add in about 8 cents a gallon refining cost for Gov. mandated ULSD and you get 16 cents. But, the Gov. mandated ULSD also creates the supply problems that add further to diesel cost:

“The phase-in of the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency’s (EPA) sulfur standards for diesel fuels has the potential to continue to influence diesel fuel prices. The logistics of delivery of ULSD to retail service stations can be a challenge. Most ULSD travels through pipelines on the way to bulk terminals for final transfer by tanker truck to retail stations. Other diesel fuels and petroleum products with a higher-sulfur content in the pipeline, storage, and local distribution systems might contaminate ULSD (jet fuel, for example, can have 3,000 ppm of sulfur). If contaminated, it may not be possible to correct a ULSD fuel batch by blending with additional low-sulfur product, and contaminated batches have to be returned to a refinery for reprocessing, a difficult and expensive problem. Even without potential delivery problems, it costs relatively more to produce ULSD fuel. “ http://www.eia.doe.gov/bookshelf/brochures/diesel/

I guess I should have said fuel taxes AND other Gov. caused expenses.

Yeah, “historically” diesel has been cheaper, just not in recent times. Diesel should be a lot cheaper always as it takes much less processing to make.

Diesel fuel is blessed with a lubricating quality that gasoline lacks. This is one of the reasons behind the success and longevity of diesel engines.

ULSD refines the natural lubricants out and then refiners must add back in chemicals to restore the lubricity. Would any of us be surprised if 5 years down the road we discover the “new” additives pollute more than the natural diesel lubricant they must now refine out?

[sd_matt]

[quote=Eugene][quote=sd_matt]If a 50cc scooter that tops out a 35 mph gets 100 mpg or above then I am skeptical of 360 mpg at the least. [/quote]

A 50cc scooter (plus the driver) has terrible aerodynamics, its coefficient of drag is 3 to 4 times higher than Cd of a conventionally-shaped car. And if it’s gasoline-powered, don’t forget about inherently low efficiency of an internal combustion engine, generally thought to be on the order of 30%. [/quote]

So a vehicle of the same same size and weight as a scooter should get 600mpg?
How much does this car weigh?

[sd_matt]

[quote=Eugene][quote=sd_matt]If a 50cc scooter that tops out a 35 mph gets 100 mpg or above then I am skeptical of 360 mpg at the least. [/quote]

A 50cc scooter (plus the driver) has terrible aerodynamics, its coefficient of drag is 3 to 4 times higher than Cd of a conventionally-shaped car. And if it’s gasoline-powered, don’t forget about inherently low efficiency of an internal combustion engine, generally thought to be on the order of 30%. [/quote]

So a vehicle of the same same size and weight as a scooter should get 600mpg?
How much does this car weigh?

[sd_matt]

[quote=Eugene][quote=sd_matt]If a 50cc scooter that tops out a 35 mph gets 100 mpg or above then I am skeptical of 360 mpg at the least. [/quote]

A 50cc scooter (plus the driver) has terrible aerodynamics, its coefficient of drag is 3 to 4 times higher than Cd of a conventionally-shaped car. And if it’s gasoline-powered, don’t forget about inherently low efficiency of an internal combustion engine, generally thought to be on the order of 30%. [/quote]

So a vehicle of the same same size and weight as a scooter should get 600mpg?
How much does this car weigh?

[sd_matt]

[quote=Eugene][quote=sd_matt]If a 50cc scooter that tops out a 35 mph gets 100 mpg or above then I am skeptical of 360 mpg at the least. [/quote]

A 50cc scooter (plus the driver) has terrible aerodynamics, its coefficient of drag is 3 to 4 times higher than Cd of a conventionally-shaped car. And if it’s gasoline-powered, don’t forget about inherently low efficiency of an internal combustion engine, generally thought to be on the order of 30%. [/quote]

So a vehicle of the same same size and weight as a scooter should get 600mpg?
How much does this car weigh?

[sd_matt]

[quote=Eugene][quote=sd_matt]If a 50cc scooter that tops out a 35 mph gets 100 mpg or above then I am skeptical of 360 mpg at the least. [/quote]

A 50cc scooter (plus the driver) has terrible aerodynamics, its coefficient of drag is 3 to 4 times higher than Cd of a conventionally-shaped car. And if it’s gasoline-powered, don’t forget about inherently low efficiency of an internal combustion engine, generally thought to be on the order of 30%. [/quote]

So a vehicle of the same same size and weight as a scooter should get 600mpg?
How much does this car weigh?

[sd_matt]

Anyway

Here’s a far-fetched idea I’ve been watching for a year that I think might actually work. Yes I’m hijacking the thread.

A presentation given to google a couple years ago

and the update

http://www.classicalvalues.com/archives/2009/06/the_boys_at_tal.html

[sd_matt]

Anyway

Here’s a far-fetched idea I’ve been watching for a year that I think might actually work. Yes I’m hijacking the thread.

A presentation given to google a couple years ago

and the update

http://www.classicalvalues.com/archives/2009/06/the_boys_at_tal.html

[sd_matt]

Anyway

Here’s a far-fetched idea I’ve been watching for a year that I think might actually work. Yes I’m hijacking the thread.

A presentation given to google a couple years ago

and the update

http://www.classicalvalues.com/archives/2009/06/the_boys_at_tal.html

[sd_matt]

Anyway

Here’s a far-fetched idea I’ve been watching for a year that I think might actually work. Yes I’m hijacking the thread.

A presentation given to google a couple years ago

and the update

http://www.classicalvalues.com/archives/2009/06/the_boys_at_tal.html

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