OT: college; fear of debt

[UCGal]

Here are my thoughts.

– Does your bright son have a plan, a major, an area of interest yet?

I would not go the 4 year route, right out of the gate, if he doesn’t even know his course of study… what if he goes to a school that isn’t strong in that field.

I broke my parents hearts by NOT going to UC Berkeley straight out of high school. I was accepted – but had no clue what I wanted to major in. Instead I got a job, moved out, and started taking courses at the community college. I ended up, a few years later, transferring to SDSU and getting a BSEE. I’ve been happy as an enginerd… and who knows how much time/money would have been spent for something else at UCB.

But – if your son is the type he’s know exactly what he wants to do – then facilitate that. A nephew of ours knew he wanted to go to Wharton. The family couldn’t afford it – but knew he should go – and he was accepted with a partial scholarship. He was driven, and there was little risk he’d flounder.

If your son has a plan and you’re confident he has the wherewithal to follow through with his plan – go for the 4 year school (if that’s his plan).

If your son is still figuring out his plan – the JC is the perfect place to figure it out.
Keep your powder dry (money) for when the plan forms.

[an]

I totally agree with UCGal. If your son has a plan and a major that is capable in paying off the debt easy, then why not let him go? If he doesn’t know what he wants to be or has a desire in areas where it doesn’t pay much, then getting a AA at a JC would make perfect sense to me. There’s no point in paying big bucks for GE classes.

Both me and my brother know exactly what we wanted to be (enginerds) and we both graduated in 4 years. I work throughout that 4 years (both summer and during school year). I live at home and my parents paid for my schooling. But, if I had to, the money I made working during school would have easily paid for the cost of my schooling. I was doing 20 hrs. a week during school time and 40 hrs. a week during the summer as a developer. So, the pay was much higher than minimum wage. I guess what I’m trying to say is, don’t be too afraid of the cost of college if you/he have a plan to pay for it.

[Coronita]

Scardey,

I think it will depend on what your kid wants to do. I guess there are certain majors that it won’t matter,and I guess there are certain majors that will.

If he plans to major in something like underwater basket weaving, then by all means, send him to a JC.

If he plans to major in medicine/law/investment banking and has dreams of being in the 1% category, JC is probably not the way to go….

Engineering is gray area imho… I went to an Ivy league school, I don’t think there is really that much of difference between going there or any reputable good state engineering school, unless you really want go the PHD route. And over time, practical hands-on experience ends up being more relevant for a good portion (not all) engineering jobs. Most engineering jobs are not PHD required jobs.
My motivation was I just wanted to get the fvck out of southern california and that’s how I endd up on the east coast. Engineering recruiting was probably about the same as for other reputable UC schools from students that were good.

From day to day recruiting of interns and college grads, we see qualified candidates from UCLA/UCSD/Berkeley, private schools, and schools from Canada (eh?) etc…. We do see a lot of “masters” candidates from SDSU….However, my specific group hasn’t hired any intern or full time person from there yet…We just haven’t found anyone who has basic fundamentals down fresh from school….

[scaredyclassic]

he doesnt have a plan.

he is open to the universe.

he is extremely interested in everything in the world.

community college.

[scaredyclassic]

i appreciate all your comments and insight.

it’s really helpful for me in sorting through my thoughts on all this.

you need to be clear in your own mind what your position is when talking with kids! or judges, for that matter.

[Coronita]

[quote=squat250]he doesnt have a plan.

he is open to the universe.

he is extremely interested in everything in the world.

community college.[/quote]

Well, does he know what he doesn’t want to do?
I knew I didn’t want to be a doctor because I hated biology and I suck at memorizing things… Maybe you can spend some time having your son hang out with your or your wifey at work..

My dad took me to work…He tried to convince me not to be an enginerd because he told me it was the ticket to being in the poorhouse… I didn’t listen…..But he was right. Same thing happened to my sibling. Except my sibling listened and realized bioengineering was worse than underwater basket weaving…Ended up going to work on wall street. Best decision sibling made.

[SK in CV]

[quote=UCGal]Here are my thoughts.

– Does your bright son have a plan, a major, an area of interest yet?

I would not go the 4 year route, right out of the gate, if he doesn’t even know his course of study… what if he goes to a school that isn’t strong in that field.

I broke my parents hearts by NOT going to UC Berkeley straight out of high school. I was accepted – but had no clue what I wanted to major in. Instead I got a job, moved out, and started taking courses at the community college. I ended up, a few years later, transferring to SDSU and getting a BSEE. I’ve been happy as an enginerd… and who knows how much time/money would have been spent for something else at UCB.

But – if your son is the type he’s know exactly what he wants to do – then facilitate that. A nephew of ours knew he wanted to go to Wharton. The family couldn’t afford it – but knew he should go – and he was accepted with a partial scholarship. He was driven, and there was little risk he’d flounder.

If your son has a plan and you’re confident he has the wherewithal to follow through with his plan – go for the 4 year school (if that’s his plan).

If your son is still figuring out his plan – the JC is the perfect place to figure it out.
Keep your powder dry (money) for when the plan forms.[/quote]

This makes a lot of sense. And it was exactly how both my kids made their decisions. Daughter knew since she was 7 she wanted to be a doctor. She went straight to UCSD, graduated in 4 years and continued on with her dream. Son had no clue. Took 7 years to finally graduate (with 3 majors), but more than half of that was at a JC. (They kicked him out when he’d taken just about every class they offer.) As it turns out, they both ended up costing about the same.

[bearishgurl]

[quote=spdrun]State university, not necessarily in CA. No point in paying for high school remedial stuff in community college.[/quote]

spdrun, I’m all for this, since nearly ALL CA university campuses are getting to be “impacted.” But the problem herein lies in the out-of-state tuition, which is roughly 270% of in-state tuition in whichever state one is considering.

As I stated here:

http://piggington.com/dysfunctional_dishonest_insane_intolerable

Submitted by bearishgurl on October 23, 2012 – 11:51am.

..A high school grad with a 3.5 to 3.75 GPA was not a “bad student.” I feel a “qualified” CA HS grad who attended all 13 years of their public school in CA “deserves” to be admitted to a university in their home state.

“Qualified” does not necessarily mean only 4.77 GPA HS grads (with multiple HS AP credits)…

Due to CA’s severe budget cuts heavily impacting programs and admissions numbers, I feel that the CA UC Regents and the CSU Board of Trustees needs to vote to give qualified CA residents with CA HS diplomas first priority in admissions over out-of-state and foreign students. The CA universities currently are leaning towards admitting those non-resident applicants over residents (who will pay much higher fees).

If their program cuts and admission practices continue on for even one more academic year like they have been for the last ~7 years, they will have the effect of causing 85-90% of CA HS students to have to “give up” on a public university degree in CA, IMO.

What’s happening here in CA is that nearly ALL resident HS grads with less than a 3.9 cumulative GPA will be turned down for CA university admission (as freshmen) in the future, relegating them to the underfunded and soon-to-be-chaos community colleges. When families can’t afford to pay out-of-state or private college tuition, the masses of CA HS grads who want an eventual bachelor’s degree will be stuck going to CC and hoping they can get all their GE credits in a timely manner to transfer into university in the future. After obtaining the needed ~60 units at CC (in 2-5 yrs, lol), they will then have to deal with the reality that once accepted into a UC or CSU program as a junior, they likely will not be able to finish their remaining ~60 units in two years … or even three years, all the while paying $500 to $800 per semester hour and paying for housing in SB, LA, SF, Berkeley, Irvine and other high-priced locales.

I believe qualified CA HS grads should be given the option to attend out-of-state universities for in-state tuition on a “space-A” basis. CA’s unsustainable ability to provide a college education to its residents (to whom it owes a “duty,” IMHO) would be more “palatable” if there were (at least a dozen or so) “reciprocation agreements” in place such as the one with ASU (AZ) where qualified CA-resident HS grads could qualify for in-state tuition at out-of-state universities where impaction is not such a problem (at less populous states). It is actually cheaper to pay for housing (or “rent” a relative’s back bdrm for your student) in some of these “flyover states” than it would be at CSU Merced or Fresno!

There is NOTHING preventing a (CA-resident) student who obtained their bachelor’s degree in KS, for instance, to return to CA to live and work after graduation. Leaving the state to go to college is simply a means to an end . . . to be accepted into a university as “high-avg” HS student with a ~3.7 GPA and perhaps 6-15 AP credits and to be able to finish in four years.

There’s something to be said for a student being able to finish their degree work on time, making them able to get a FT job in their field right after graduation, instead of paying $2500+ per semester to a CSU campus in years 5, 6 and 7 for <=5 credit hours at a time to obtain needed 300 and 400-level classes which are only offered every 4th or 5th semester (in the middle of the business day, of course), due to "budget cuts." At this rate, the student "degree candidate" is wasting precious years (and $$) in trying to get on with their lives.

[spdrun]

F— reciprocity — that’s a Band-Aid solution, and who wants to attend school in a desert hellhole like Zonieland anyway? In-state should for sure have priority over foreigners and out of state. At the very least, overt discrimination against CA residents should be prohibited. That’s the way it works in my former home state of NJ.

[bearishgurl]

[quote=spdrun]F— reciprocity — that’s a Band-Aid solution, and who wants to attend school in a desert hellhole like Zonieland anyway? In-state should for sure have priority over foreigners and out of state. At the very least, overt discrimination against CA residents should be prohibited. That’s the way it works in my former home state of NJ.[/quote]

I tried to talk my last kid into ASU, spdrun. No dice . . . they weren’t at all interested. They have taken our little dog out there in enough gas-station runs to hear it scream every time because it’s little feet burned so bad….

My kid even laughed at the suggestion …. they’ve got their sights set on UCSB. We’ll see . . . lol

[bearishgurl]

[quote=flu][quote=squat250]he doesnt have a plan.

he is open to the universe.

he is extremely interested in everything in the world.

community college.[/quote]

Well, does he know what he doesn’t want to do?
I knew I didn’t want to be a doctor because I hated biology and I suck at memorizing things… Maybe you can spend some time having your son hang out with your or your wifey at work..

My dad took me to work…He tried to convince me not to be an enginerd because he told me it was the ticket to being in the poorhouse… I didn’t listen…..But he was right. Same thing happened to my sibling. Except my sibling listened and realized bioengineering was worse than underwater basket weaving…Ended up going to work on wall street. Best decision sibling made.[/quote]

Great idea, flu!

scaredy, does your employer have a “Take your kid to work day?” Does your son have a pair of Dockers or dress pants? You can have your son accompany you into the “felony arraignment/dispo tank” inside the courtroom and hold your clipboard of “Change of Plea” forms for you while he listens to you explain the ramifications of a “change of plea” to all of your affected chained and jump-suited clients, one by one.

He could learn valuable life lessons while at the same time observe thru his senses the working conditions of your “lofty professional position.”

I think kids (esp his age) should see for themselves what their parents go thru everyday so that they can have the kind of lives they have :=]

[NotCranky]

Grandparents are going to pay.

[raty4R]

My niece did the two year JC with a program from San Diego State that guaranteed admission. Once in San Diego State she was able to transfer to Texas A&M. Pretty good deal without too much debt.
You might want to check with your College/ University of choice if they have a similar program.
Me, I was too afraid to owe someone 30g’s so here I sit poor and broke..

[desmond]

[quote=martink110]My niece did the two year JC with a program from San Diego State that guaranteed admission. Once in San Diego State she was able to transfer to Texas A&M. Pretty good deal without too much debt.
You might want to check with your College/ University of choice if they have a similar program.
Me, I was too afraid to owe someone 30g’s so here I sit poor and broke..[/quote]

Why did the Aggie get so excited after he finished his jigsaw puzzle in only 6 months?

Because on the box it said From 2-4 years.

Just kidding my Father-In-Law is an aggie, we still love the guy………. go Frogs and Bears..

[bearishgurl]

martin, in the wake of recent budget cuts, those “guaranteed admission” programs to SDSU have now gone by the wayside.

Congrats to your niece for being able to likely finish her bachelor degree in four years out of state. Hopefully, she won’t incur too much debt from student loans.

I didn’t get a bachelor’s degree, either, martin. However, I have no excuse for not getting it as SDSU was about $150 per semester for 12+ units (FT) when I was “college age.” Yes, I said ~$150. That works out to $12.50 or less per semester hour! CC was actually “free” at the time. In addition, I had nearly a 31 on the ACT exam and likely could have had my pick of schools!

I was the envy of all my college-student friends back then, busy and making plenty of money working and buying RE and a new vehicle while they trekked along with two pairs of jeans, worn hiking boots, a backpack and a bicycle.

Now some of those old friends who got bachelor degrees are likely retiring with a lot more money than I will. And of course, some likely never used their bachelor degrees and/or never worked or worked very little throughout their lives.

I have pensions so am too old to care anymore :=0

[Author]

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