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an.
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December 1, 2014 at 5:04 PM #780527December 1, 2014 at 5:06 PM #780528
CoronitaParticipant[quote=spdrun]Celebrating: only in the context of wrecking industries based on inefficient and polluting extraction of oil. If we’re going to have pollution from oil extraction, better it be in Saudi, not in North America, and best to use oil that flows easily vs needing heroic (and more polluting) means to extract.[/quote]
Well people who really care about the environment probably should care about the extra pollution resulting from increased consumption, whether the oil production happens here in the U.S. or abroad…Afterall, it’s still the same planet….
December 1, 2014 at 5:10 PM #780529spdrun
ParticipantWhich is why the Feds should pimp-slap fossil fuels for motor use with a punitive tax. Start it at one cent per gallon. Double every two years 🙂
That would be the best of all worlds. Incentive for consumers to move away from oil without oil production fouling North American soil.
Other ideal scenario would be a dead US frack industry combined with political unrest in the Middle East a few years from now. Oil hitting $200+/bbl would be good shock treatment for the US.
December 1, 2014 at 5:20 PM #780530CoronitaParticipant[quote=spdrun]Which is why the Feds should pimp-slap fossil fuels for motor use with a punitive tax. Start it at one cent per gallon. Double every two years 🙂
That would be the best of all worlds. Incentive for consumers to move away from oil without oil production fouling North American soil.
Other ideal scenario would be a dead US frack industry combined with political unrest in the Middle East a few years from now. Oil hitting $200+/bbl would be good shock treatment for the US.[/quote]
Thankfully you aren’t God….:)
December 1, 2014 at 5:22 PM #780531an
Participant[quote=spdrun]Which is why the Feds should pimp-slap fossil fuels for motor use with a punitive tax. Start it at one cent per gallon. Double every two years 🙂
That would be the best of all worlds. Incentive for consumers to move away from oil without oil production fouling North American soil.
Other ideal scenario would be a dead US frack industry combined with political unrest in the Middle East a few years from now. Oil hitting $200+/bbl would be good shock treatment for the US.[/quote]Yep, lets end fracking. Maybe that will drive up Nat Gas to crazy level and drive many people away from the north east into the south west since they can no long afford to heat their home during the brutal winters. Yay for SD’s housing price :-). Maybe it’ll also kill the exurb since people can’t afford a $10/gallon fuel price and are force to live closer to work center. Lets do that after I buy a few more properties near south west work centers :-).
December 1, 2014 at 5:28 PM #780532ParticipantAN: Suits me — I rather like the Northeast and having property prices depress would be a good thing. More for me to buy.
Taking a haircut on rent due to increased utilities (lower spending power) is still fine if initial buy-in price is lower. Here’s to it!
flu: I’m not, but the supporters of G-d, Allah, etc can always be counted on to throw a few monkey-wrenches around.
December 1, 2014 at 5:29 PM #780533Participant[quote=spdrun]Suits me — I rather like the Northeast and having property prices depress would be a good thing. More for me to buy.
Taking a haircut on rent due to increased utilities is still fine if initial buy-in price is lower. Here’s to it![/quote]Hope you can afford a $1000/month heating bill. What will happen to public transit in the northeast if 50% of the ridership disappear? Lets add 300% tax on nat gas too. Maybe that will drive even more people from the northeast to the southwest. I’m liking your idea.
December 1, 2014 at 5:33 PM #780534ParticipantSure. And let’s use it to fund the construction of new nuclear power plants. Places like Camden County, Syracuse, Scranton, etc would kill to have more jobs.
Ramp up energy production from other means, and natural gas ceases to be a thing of value.
December 1, 2014 at 5:44 PM #780535Participant[quote=spdrun]Sure. And let’s use it to fund the construction of new nuclear power plants. Places like Camden County, Syracuse, Scranton, etc would kill to have more jobs.
Ramp up energy production from other means, and natural gas ceases to be a thing of value.[/quote]
Yeah, that’ll happen. Although new nuclear reactors have come online in the United States within the last couple of decades — the last one started operation in 1996 — the NRC hasn’t issued a license to build a new reactor since 1978, a year before the Three Mile Island accident in Pennsylvania. I think there are a lot more people who hate nuclear more than you hate fossil fuel.December 1, 2014 at 6:05 PM #780536ParticipantIf the fools freeze in the dark for a few months, they’ll even accept a RITEG in their bedroom. Point is to make them freeze their butts so their anti-science attitudes get trumped by more practical considerations.
Funny that the French are about 75% nuke energy and have managed to run their reactors safely for decades. Ironic that Americans call them timid, but they’re less fearful than our uneducated sheep in this respect.
The ideal situation is to give the average American bleating sheep two choices:
(1) Freeze in the dark. Ideally freeze to death.
(2) Accept forms of energy production that befit people living in the 21st century. Nuclear, hydro, renewable, etc.December 1, 2014 at 6:12 PM #780537CoronitaParticipantSomehow I think any politician that suggests taxing oil/gas to the max as a means to force americans to consume less energy would have a very very short political career, especially when the majority of non-5%ers that can barely afford their over-leveraged paycheck-to-paycheck lifestyle end up having to pay even more for their vehicles.
Afterall, according to Jonathan Gruber, the average american voter is stupid and would never vote for a tax that is supposedly good, but nevertheless being stupid, needs to be conned into doing something that is for the greater good:
In his terms this would be most likely explained as
“In terms of risk-rated subsidies, if you had a law which said that fuel consuming people are going to pay in, it would not have passed, okay. Lack of transparency is a huge political advantage. And basically, call it the stupidity of the American voter or whatever, but basically that was really, really critical for the thing to pass”
December 1, 2014 at 6:23 PM #780538ParticipantGruber is bang-on right. Wish there were an easy way to nudge American voters into accepting an fossil fuel tax/cleantech subsidy structure.
Ironic thing is that electric cars are actually cheap to run and maintain. Battery replacement costs are offset by a simpler, easier to maintain drivetrain as well as lower “fuel” costs.
In the long run, Joe Overleveraged would actually be better served by having at least one of his vehicles be electric.
Or even a 60 mpg diesel econobox for that matter.
December 1, 2014 at 6:49 PM #780539FlyerInHi
Guesta cursory look at the fiat website shows credit upt to $14k.
http://www.fiatusa.com/en/500e/#flu, I laughed at the fiat reliability joke.
But it’s a stylish urban car.December 1, 2014 at 7:06 PM #780542CoronitaParticipant[quote=FlyerInHi]a cursory look at the fiat website shows credit upt to $14k.
http://www.fiatusa.com/en/500e/#flu, I laughed at the fiat reliability joke.
But it’s a stylish urban car.[/quote]It was tongue and cheek, but then again not really. At least not for the Fiat500L
“The new Fiat 500L was ranked the least reliable car out of the 248 vehicles Consumer Reports rated.”
Also, I would not want to be caught in one of these in an accident…
…..compared to a german subcompact
…or a scoobie…
December 1, 2014 at 7:09 PM #780544CA renter
Participant[quote=flu][quote=spdrun]Hopefully, this is just the beginning. We need oil stocks to do down another 50% and massive layoffs in the frack industry in the US. Better the Saudis poison their own environment than we do.
Meanwhile, we should be working on mandating alternate energy technologies, so when Saudi oil does run out (and kick that third-rate country back to the Stone Age), we’ll be set without needing to poison ourselves.[/quote]
It never ceases to amaze me that these days, more Americans are interested in seeing other people fail then they are interested in seeing people succeed… Talk about the total Schadenfreude mentality that if I can’t have it better, then neither can you…
Envy-fluenza strikes again..[/quote]
Like many people’s stance on public sector/union workers?
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