OT – Bilingual Education

[CA renter]

For teachers in a regular classroom (with a strict curriculum and various legal requirements for certain activities, etc.), this time constraint is very real, unfortunately.

Like you, we HS, so I’m with you on the “elastic learning,” but that’s not how it is in an institutionalized learning environment. 😉

[KSMountain]

[quote=deadzone]Bigger picture, learing additonal languages here in U.S. is totally worthless if you don’t actually spend significant amount of time overseas actually using the language.[/quote]

This is a crazily extreme statement, one that I find not to be true in my case.

For me, native English speaker, no other language spoken in the home. For starters, simply learning Spanish caused me to later realize things about English I don’t think I would have otherwise.

But beyond that, I’ve found it useful talking to various people I encounter here in the U.S. for whom Spanish is their primary language. This happens *really* often to me. It really helps develop a bond with those folks when you make an effort (even an “annoying” one) to communicate in their primary language.

For travel to Mexico it is of course invaluable, not just for speaking, but for reading the signs and knowing what is going on around you.

For travel to Europe I found that I could kind of wing it in Italy.

I am SO glad I had four years of Spanish!

Now the issue that CA Renter is talking about (how to educate kids here where Spanish is spoken in the home) I have little experience in that but my feeling is that she is correct and that 100% English in school would be best for the whippersnappers.

[KSMountain]

[quote=deadzone]Bigger picture, learing additonal languages here in U.S. is totally worthless if you don’t actually spend significant amount of time overseas actually using the language.[/quote]

This is a crazily extreme statement, one that I find not to be true in my case.

For me, native English speaker, no other language spoken in the home. For starters, simply learning Spanish caused me to later realize things about English I don’t think I would have otherwise.

But beyond that, I’ve found it useful talking to various people I encounter here in the U.S. for whom Spanish is their primary language. This happens *really* often to me. It really helps develop a bond with those folks when you make an effort (even an “annoying” one) to communicate in their primary language.

For travel to Mexico it is of course invaluable, not just for speaking, but for reading the signs and knowing what is going on around you.

For travel to Europe I found that I could kind of wing it in Italy.

I am SO glad I had four years of Spanish!

Now the issue that CA Renter is talking about (how to educate kids here where Spanish is spoken in the home) I have little experience in that but my feeling is that she is correct and that 100% English in school would be best for the whippersnappers.

[KSMountain]

[quote=deadzone]Bigger picture, learing additonal languages here in U.S. is totally worthless if you don’t actually spend significant amount of time overseas actually using the language.[/quote]

This is a crazily extreme statement, one that I find not to be true in my case.

For me, native English speaker, no other language spoken in the home. For starters, simply learning Spanish caused me to later realize things about English I don’t think I would have otherwise.

But beyond that, I’ve found it useful talking to various people I encounter here in the U.S. for whom Spanish is their primary language. This happens *really* often to me. It really helps develop a bond with those folks when you make an effort (even an “annoying” one) to communicate in their primary language.

For travel to Mexico it is of course invaluable, not just for speaking, but for reading the signs and knowing what is going on around you.

For travel to Europe I found that I could kind of wing it in Italy.

I am SO glad I had four years of Spanish!

Now the issue that CA Renter is talking about (how to educate kids here where Spanish is spoken in the home) I have little experience in that but my feeling is that she is correct and that 100% English in school would be best for the whippersnappers.

[KSMountain]

[quote=deadzone]Bigger picture, learing additonal languages here in U.S. is totally worthless if you don’t actually spend significant amount of time overseas actually using the language.[/quote]

This is a crazily extreme statement, one that I find not to be true in my case.

For me, native English speaker, no other language spoken in the home. For starters, simply learning Spanish caused me to later realize things about English I don’t think I would have otherwise.

But beyond that, I’ve found it useful talking to various people I encounter here in the U.S. for whom Spanish is their primary language. This happens *really* often to me. It really helps develop a bond with those folks when you make an effort (even an “annoying” one) to communicate in their primary language.

For travel to Mexico it is of course invaluable, not just for speaking, but for reading the signs and knowing what is going on around you.

For travel to Europe I found that I could kind of wing it in Italy.

I am SO glad I had four years of Spanish!

Now the issue that CA Renter is talking about (how to educate kids here where Spanish is spoken in the home) I have little experience in that but my feeling is that she is correct and that 100% English in school would be best for the whippersnappers.

[KSMountain]

[quote=deadzone]Bigger picture, learing additonal languages here in U.S. is totally worthless if you don’t actually spend significant amount of time overseas actually using the language.[/quote]

This is a crazily extreme statement, one that I find not to be true in my case.

For me, native English speaker, no other language spoken in the home. For starters, simply learning Spanish caused me to later realize things about English I don’t think I would have otherwise.

But beyond that, I’ve found it useful talking to various people I encounter here in the U.S. for whom Spanish is their primary language. This happens *really* often to me. It really helps develop a bond with those folks when you make an effort (even an “annoying” one) to communicate in their primary language.

For travel to Mexico it is of course invaluable, not just for speaking, but for reading the signs and knowing what is going on around you.

For travel to Europe I found that I could kind of wing it in Italy.

I am SO glad I had four years of Spanish!

Now the issue that CA Renter is talking about (how to educate kids here where Spanish is spoken in the home) I have little experience in that but my feeling is that she is correct and that 100% English in school would be best for the whippersnappers.

[NotCranky]

[quote=Russell][quote=deadzone]
Bigger picture, learning additional languages here in U.S. is totally worthless if you don’t actually spend significant amount of time overseas actually using the language.[/quote]
Just curious, which foreign language did you achieve fluency in that doesn’t add increased perspective and other valuable things to your life here? I mean, you must have tested your theory?[/quote]
Getting back to this:

You said it was totally worthless but want to lean on a dollars and cents cost analysis and “pragmatism”

I can’t prove that it “penciled out” for me, even though I have performed activities in Spanish from two types of businesses several times and had my resume put to the top of the pile in one situation because of it. That’s because I started late and it could be argued that I could have put that energy into a high paying career or just making money stuffing envelopes. Money was never part of my motivation. Many people have benefited in ways not easily accounted for on a ledger. There are a lot of people who say, thank goodness I met that “sort of good at Spanish gringo” and the list will grow.I guess it’s kind of wierd to think that things we can do that benefit other people are not a “waste of time”? I also don’t think entertainment including cross cultural socializing is a waste of time.

For the English dominant kids starting in kindergarten or before, it seems like a no brainier. They get to learn the same stuff while they get bilingual that most of their monolingual friends do. How can picking up a free language and all the asscociated benefits, be a waste of time? That pencils out. Now it may be a setback to some kids but for others it will have advantages.
Have you watched the video? Can you say it is a waste of time for Jason or Durrel after doing so?

Yor post seems to deny all of these factor and things others see too. That’s what makes it “extreme”. Sorry if YOU feel like you wasted your time.

[NotCranky]

[quote=Russell][quote=deadzone]
Bigger picture, learning additional languages here in U.S. is totally worthless if you don’t actually spend significant amount of time overseas actually using the language.[/quote]
Just curious, which foreign language did you achieve fluency in that doesn’t add increased perspective and other valuable things to your life here? I mean, you must have tested your theory?[/quote]
Getting back to this:

You said it was totally worthless but want to lean on a dollars and cents cost analysis and “pragmatism”

I can’t prove that it “penciled out” for me, even though I have performed activities in Spanish from two types of businesses several times and had my resume put to the top of the pile in one situation because of it. That’s because I started late and it could be argued that I could have put that energy into a high paying career or just making money stuffing envelopes. Money was never part of my motivation. Many people have benefited in ways not easily accounted for on a ledger. There are a lot of people who say, thank goodness I met that “sort of good at Spanish gringo” and the list will grow.I guess it’s kind of wierd to think that things we can do that benefit other people are not a “waste of time”? I also don’t think entertainment including cross cultural socializing is a waste of time.

For the English dominant kids starting in kindergarten or before, it seems like a no brainier. They get to learn the same stuff while they get bilingual that most of their monolingual friends do. How can picking up a free language and all the asscociated benefits, be a waste of time? That pencils out. Now it may be a setback to some kids but for others it will have advantages.
Have you watched the video? Can you say it is a waste of time for Jason or Durrel after doing so?

Yor post seems to deny all of these factor and things others see too. That’s what makes it “extreme”. Sorry if YOU feel like you wasted your time.

[NotCranky]

[quote=Russell][quote=deadzone]
Bigger picture, learning additional languages here in U.S. is totally worthless if you don’t actually spend significant amount of time overseas actually using the language.[/quote]
Just curious, which foreign language did you achieve fluency in that doesn’t add increased perspective and other valuable things to your life here? I mean, you must have tested your theory?[/quote]
Getting back to this:

You said it was totally worthless but want to lean on a dollars and cents cost analysis and “pragmatism”

I can’t prove that it “penciled out” for me, even though I have performed activities in Spanish from two types of businesses several times and had my resume put to the top of the pile in one situation because of it. That’s because I started late and it could be argued that I could have put that energy into a high paying career or just making money stuffing envelopes. Money was never part of my motivation. Many people have benefited in ways not easily accounted for on a ledger. There are a lot of people who say, thank goodness I met that “sort of good at Spanish gringo” and the list will grow.I guess it’s kind of wierd to think that things we can do that benefit other people are not a “waste of time”? I also don’t think entertainment including cross cultural socializing is a waste of time.

For the English dominant kids starting in kindergarten or before, it seems like a no brainier. They get to learn the same stuff while they get bilingual that most of their monolingual friends do. How can picking up a free language and all the asscociated benefits, be a waste of time? That pencils out. Now it may be a setback to some kids but for others it will have advantages.
Have you watched the video? Can you say it is a waste of time for Jason or Durrel after doing so?

Yor post seems to deny all of these factor and things others see too. That’s what makes it “extreme”. Sorry if YOU feel like you wasted your time.

[NotCranky]

[quote=Russell][quote=deadzone]
Bigger picture, learning additional languages here in U.S. is totally worthless if you don’t actually spend significant amount of time overseas actually using the language.[/quote]
Just curious, which foreign language did you achieve fluency in that doesn’t add increased perspective and other valuable things to your life here? I mean, you must have tested your theory?[/quote]
Getting back to this:

You said it was totally worthless but want to lean on a dollars and cents cost analysis and “pragmatism”

I can’t prove that it “penciled out” for me, even though I have performed activities in Spanish from two types of businesses several times and had my resume put to the top of the pile in one situation because of it. That’s because I started late and it could be argued that I could have put that energy into a high paying career or just making money stuffing envelopes. Money was never part of my motivation. Many people have benefited in ways not easily accounted for on a ledger. There are a lot of people who say, thank goodness I met that “sort of good at Spanish gringo” and the list will grow.I guess it’s kind of wierd to think that things we can do that benefit other people are not a “waste of time”? I also don’t think entertainment including cross cultural socializing is a waste of time.

For the English dominant kids starting in kindergarten or before, it seems like a no brainier. They get to learn the same stuff while they get bilingual that most of their monolingual friends do. How can picking up a free language and all the asscociated benefits, be a waste of time? That pencils out. Now it may be a setback to some kids but for others it will have advantages.
Have you watched the video? Can you say it is a waste of time for Jason or Durrel after doing so?

Yor post seems to deny all of these factor and things others see too. That’s what makes it “extreme”. Sorry if YOU feel like you wasted your time.

[NotCranky]

[quote=Russell][quote=deadzone]
Bigger picture, learning additional languages here in U.S. is totally worthless if you don’t actually spend significant amount of time overseas actually using the language.[/quote]
Just curious, which foreign language did you achieve fluency in that doesn’t add increased perspective and other valuable things to your life here? I mean, you must have tested your theory?[/quote]
Getting back to this:

You said it was totally worthless but want to lean on a dollars and cents cost analysis and “pragmatism”

I can’t prove that it “penciled out” for me, even though I have performed activities in Spanish from two types of businesses several times and had my resume put to the top of the pile in one situation because of it. That’s because I started late and it could be argued that I could have put that energy into a high paying career or just making money stuffing envelopes. Money was never part of my motivation. Many people have benefited in ways not easily accounted for on a ledger. There are a lot of people who say, thank goodness I met that “sort of good at Spanish gringo” and the list will grow.I guess it’s kind of wierd to think that things we can do that benefit other people are not a “waste of time”? I also don’t think entertainment including cross cultural socializing is a waste of time.

For the English dominant kids starting in kindergarten or before, it seems like a no brainier. They get to learn the same stuff while they get bilingual that most of their monolingual friends do. How can picking up a free language and all the asscociated benefits, be a waste of time? That pencils out. Now it may be a setback to some kids but for others it will have advantages.
Have you watched the video? Can you say it is a waste of time for Jason or Durrel after doing so?

Yor post seems to deny all of these factor and things others see too. That’s what makes it “extreme”. Sorry if YOU feel like you wasted your time.

[Anonymous]

I never said it was a waste of time, just not a necessity, particularly in terms of professional success. If you like learning language that is great, I do too. But let’s call a spade a spade. It is a freakin hobby. If you don’t live or work in another country, you will never achieve anything close to fluency anyway. If you don’t rely on another language to conduct businees it doesn’t matter, it is NOT a necessity, it is merely a hobby or intellectual pursuit.

Here is an interesting poll question for the piggs to research. How many CEOs of fortune 500 companies are multi-lingual? How many U.S. senators and congressmen? How many US presidents throughout history?

[Anonymous]

I never said it was a waste of time, just not a necessity, particularly in terms of professional success. If you like learning language that is great, I do too. But let’s call a spade a spade. It is a freakin hobby. If you don’t live or work in another country, you will never achieve anything close to fluency anyway. If you don’t rely on another language to conduct businees it doesn’t matter, it is NOT a necessity, it is merely a hobby or intellectual pursuit.

Here is an interesting poll question for the piggs to research. How many CEOs of fortune 500 companies are multi-lingual? How many U.S. senators and congressmen? How many US presidents throughout history?

[Anonymous]

I never said it was a waste of time, just not a necessity, particularly in terms of professional success. If you like learning language that is great, I do too. But let’s call a spade a spade. It is a freakin hobby. If you don’t live or work in another country, you will never achieve anything close to fluency anyway. If you don’t rely on another language to conduct businees it doesn’t matter, it is NOT a necessity, it is merely a hobby or intellectual pursuit.

Here is an interesting poll question for the piggs to research. How many CEOs of fortune 500 companies are multi-lingual? How many U.S. senators and congressmen? How many US presidents throughout history?

[Anonymous]

I never said it was a waste of time, just not a necessity, particularly in terms of professional success. If you like learning language that is great, I do too. But let’s call a spade a spade. It is a freakin hobby. If you don’t live or work in another country, you will never achieve anything close to fluency anyway. If you don’t rely on another language to conduct businees it doesn’t matter, it is NOT a necessity, it is merely a hobby or intellectual pursuit.

Here is an interesting poll question for the piggs to research. How many CEOs of fortune 500 companies are multi-lingual? How many U.S. senators and congressmen? How many US presidents throughout history?

[Author]

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