Off Topic – Did this really happen?

[bgates]

In keeping with the farcical ‘Point/Counterpoint’ theme of this thread, let me be the first to say:
‘Powayseller, you ignorant slut.’

Underwriters Labs comment on Kevin Ryan, as you would know if you got someone to show you how Google works.

Underwriters Laboratories denied that it ever certified the steel in the World Trade Center buildings and said Ryan wrote the letter "without UL's knowledge or authorization."

"UL does not certify structural steel, such as the beams, columns and trusses used in World Trade Center," said Paul M. Baker, a spokesman for the Northbrook, Ill.-based company.

Ryan was fired, Baker said, because he "expressed his own opinions as though they were institutional opinions and beliefs of UL."

"The contents of the argument itself are spurious at best, and frankly, they're just wrong," Baker said.

Do you know what Ryan did at the UL subsidiary? Tested drinking water. Do you know what that has to do with thermal testing steel? I don’t.

Since once again the first point you make is total garbage, I’m going to assume the rest is as well. Tell you what, why don’t you and brianzero and salo_t hook up with OJ and find the Real Conspirators for us. After that, you can go help your idol Ahmadinejad figure out who staged the Holocaust.

[bgates]

Poway, your truncated quote of Bill Manning in an attempt to pull him into your crackpot theorizing is nothing short of libelous. Here’s what you quoted:

The structural damage from the planes and the explosive ignition of jet fuel in themselves were not enough to bring down the towers.

And here’s what he said next:

Rather, theory has it, the subsequent contents fires attacking the questionably fireproofed lightweight trusses and load-bearing columns directly caused the collapses in an alarmingly short time. Of course, in light of there being no real evidence thus far produced, this could remain just unexplored theory.

The frequency of published and unpublished reports raising questions about the steel fireproofing and other fire protection elements in the buildings, as well as their design and construction, is on the rise. The builders and owners of the World Trade Center property, the Port Authority of New York-New Jersey, a governmental agency that operates in an accountability vacuum beyond the reach of local fire and building codes, has denied charges that the buildings' fire protection or construction components were substandard but has refused to cooperate with requests for documentation supporting its contentions.

Clearly this man was concerned about fire safety, and making sure that a fire-induced catastrophe was understood well enough to make sure it wouldn’t happen again. He’s suspicious of the degree of fire protection that was present in the WTC, but that’s it. In the context of the thread, you imply that he’s a lunatic like you who thinks the buildings were demolished. If you had any sense of decency, you’d delete that post and apologize for it.

[bgates]

Another ‘conspiracy’:

Powayseller, I’m curious about your stance on Ahmadinejad’s Holocaust denial conference. Much like your position on 9/11, he says he wants to keep an open mind and examine whether the official story is true. Do you agree with him? I know you have expressed admiration of him before. Do you think it’s open minded to question the historical fact of the Holocaust?

[(former)FormerSanDiegan]

Once again I blame Greenspan and his alien buddies

[img_assist|nid=2249|title=Alien or Not ? You be the judge.|desc=|link=node|align=left|width=466|height=349]

I think we should put on our aluminum foil hats before they read our minds and send us all to Guantanamo.

[powayseller]

Bill Manning is calling for a complete investigation, and the quote I put in above, is from his editorial on his online magazine.

Some of you wish to libel and slander me for being curious. I ask how small low temp fires could melt steel, and suddenly I believe in aliens and hate Jews?

Please respond to this thread only if you are able to stay on topic. If you are angry about this thread and have to resort to slandering a person for asking questions about the laws of physics, maybe you can’t handle the content and should stop reading, and put this entire thing out of your mind.

[Anonymous]

bg, good to see that your ‘heavy artillery’ can be highly effective from way out in Orlando!

[jztz]

PS, thanks for posting it.

I just watched the full video, and it created chills.

Although I don’t fully subscribe all the “conspiracy theory” especially regarding motives, I can’t help but think that the official story is not to be believed.

I suggest to anyone who wants to discuss this not to speak from your political point of view, and/or just discuss it from superficial level. (zk — I always like your arguments, but I think that here you jump the gun in your quick dismissal). For example, someone said that the theory couldn’t be because just one person knew — of course it couldn’t be. But with suppression, maybe only a few are daring to speaking out. Afer all, at one point, there was only one whitsleblower at Enron.

The twin towers’ collapses were such surreal sights that most of us were overwhelmed by the emotional/psychological shock, and almost too easy to be led to believe. Time for vigorous questioning. Thanks, PS.

[PD]

PS, where did I say you believe in aliens? Did you not understand that I was using aliens only to illustrate the absurdity of this whole thing? Have you no sense of humor? Where have you been slandered?

I find it interesting that when you feel under attack, a new poster mysteriously appears to defend you (jztz, coimbiatore).

[jztz]

PD — no need to insinulate a new conspiracy here — I’m not PS! (well, if there is another meet-up and I have no conflict, I will show up so you’ll see)

I just read (or rather skimmed) the 48-report by Steven Jones (http://www.st911.org/). Again, it’s chilling. The official report doesn’t add up. Now if the official explanation (fire & heat) has real leg then it’s fairly easy to dispute all this (the report is talking about facts and how law of physics can’t explain it). But I haven’t seen any yet. I was trained in science and engineering, so I’d like to approach this as a forensic project — to find out what happened. In fact, not finding out is totoally irresponsible given that the collapses of the twin tower is the worst structural disaster (if the official story is true) so far.

Again, I thank PS because she brought this up. If true, the enormity of this is just mind-boggling!

No need to jump into an argument — just read the report, and watch some videos. Like PS, I’d like to know “the other side” of the story told in a scientifically rigorous way rather than a qucik dismal because it appears absurd. In fact, for me, now the official story appears rather absurd.

PerryChase, you said earlier that you’d do some research on this topic, please post if you find something interesting.

[salo_t]

bgates, how’s that goat sacrifice coming along? Looks like PS got you a little angry with all that information. You sort of lost your cool back there. haha.

[equalizer]

Trump was the mastermind

Its obvious the king of all real estate was jealous of Silverstein. “I own this town, no one shall have a taller building than mine.”

There are the delusional and there those who hate the delusional. Like Murhy said, “Never argue with a fool, people cant tell the differnce.” Then we have bubb99, borat and zk who provided simple, rational explanation. That’s why no one will dare to agree with them. That would end the discussion! What fun would that be?

There are a few unanswered questions that cause even the real science grads grief. These have nothing to do with the story, but just present fodder for the lunatics. It would be better if these did not exist.

1. What exactly became of the alleged airline shorts investigation. Were the puts paid off? It cant be that hard to investigate. (Probably the whole story was a hoax, there was no huge volume of puts or they were bought by T.Boones Pickens)

2. Flight 93 site was bulldozed in like 1 day. First time in history, FAA (and I assume Boeing) was prevented from conducting investigation that could provide better understanding of airline disasters. The same scenario applies to Pentagon plane. These planes were flown in extreme conditions that can’t be duplicated by Boeing test pilots. Do these flights validate supercomputer simulations or could they teach Boeing how to better design planes?

3. The big fallacy here: There’s no such thing as a valid “conspiracy theory”, i.e., the govt cant keep a secret. Dr. Wattenberg, Nuclear scientist, Berkeley professor and science host of radio program on KGO, San Francisco stated one time that exact thing. As proof, he stated that one should tell a friend some secret, such as she’s having an affair and wait a while and that “secret” will get back to her. If this one example provided proof, then how did government keep secrets for 50-75 years that only get released after FOI act comes into play. AND plenty of others that get shredded before FOI can come into play. I would be happy to share a story, but then I would have to …, well you know the rest.

4. Someone here stated that Pearl Harbor was allowed to happen? Where is the proof? There are plenty of allegations, but did FOI request provide that data? Does Harvard library have that data?

[bgates]

PS, we’re talking about conspiracy theories, right? The two biggest ones going are that 9/11 was an inside job, and that the Holocaust never happened. Many people (many insane people) think the Jews are behind both. You’re trying to raise a discussion of the former, claiming anyone who says the official story is settled fact isn’t open minded. Iran’s president, who you’ve repeatedly complimented for his rationality, is doing the exact same thing with the latter. Is it slanderous to see the analogy there? Why is it if you wonder if the government supports murdering thousands of people that’s open-minded, but if I wonder if you support suppressing the murder of millions of people that’s slander?

salo_t, shouldn’t you be off gathering evidence that the moon landing was staged?

[PerryChase]

I don’t recall PS complimenting the president of Iran.

[SD Realtor]

I am pretty surprised by this post. No I do not believe there was any conspiracy by the government to blow up WTC or blast a hole in the pentagon, or bring down flight 91. I doubt our government had a hand in blowing up nightclubs in the south Pacific, or hotels in the middle east as well.

In fact the only thing I am sure of is that yes, the current leader of Iran is pulling off one of the most horrifying “seminars” in our time by “studying” the holocaust. The fact that this doesn’t scare the sh-t out of people is pretty sad as well.

How that little dity can be conveniently not discussed but we can have a 4 page discourse on our own government blowing up WTC is pretty discouraging.

[salo_t]

Well since you brought up the Pentagon. Stop the first video at 00:25. The “plane” you see is very small like maybe a cessna size plane or maybe even a cruise missile but as much as I try to stretch my imagination I can’t for the life of me see a 757.

The actual pentagon footage:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J1CJ5qihSEo

A clip put together that asks many good questions:

http://www.pentagonstrike.co.uk/flash.htm

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