Off Topic – Did this really happen?

[Anonymous]

Sept. 11 was a Tuesday. Bomb sniffing dogs were pulled the week before on Thursday. In addition, construction on various floors had been going on for months previously.

Silverstein paid twice as much … big deal, all real estate had doubled in price from $50 per square foot to over $110.

90% occupancy … great. If it was making so much money, why did the port authority want to sell it to some REIT.

Boeing 767 vs. B-25. Empire State was built with 1930’s technology. It’s still standing. The 1970 WTC was more advanced and designed to take on two (2) Boeing 707’s. So WTF happened?

So what’s your point? You haven’t negated any facts I’ve stated, nor given me anything to make me believe the “official storyline”.

“Just because someone calls you a conspiracy nut doesn’t mean you’re NOT crazy”. Go back to english grammar school… you just used a double negative, i.e. “Just because someone calls you a conspiracy nut does mean you’re crazy”.

The link posted above … 9/11 Mysteries:

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-6708190071483512003&q=9%2F11&hl=en

… is a good start for anyone who wants to seriously look into the questions and discrepancies surrounding the “official storyline” of what happened on Sept. 11.

And to all the blithering idiots … a “question” is the backbone of any scientific inquiry. A question must first be asked in order for the answer to be found.

[kewp]

Lets see, a modern, fully fueled jet aircraft weighing nine times as much as B-25 and moving twice as fast would, in my mind, would result in a fair bit more damage to anything it collided with.

Beyond that, the ESB is based on a 3D grid design, with columns and beams throughout the structure. This leads to a very robust design, at the expense of open floor space. Contrast this with the WTC, which is a ‘tube’ design. The majority of the load bearing structure is on the outside of building, which unfortunately turns out to be a weak spot vs. jumbo jets piloted by suicidal terrorists.

If anyone is interested in the science behind exactly WTF happened I’ll suggest checking the Nova special on it.

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/wtc/

…though I guess PBS could be part of the conspiracy as well.

[masayako]

Larry Silversteen (owner of the WTC) himself told the news that WTC7 is pulled by the fire department for safety reason.

Bring down a building for safety reason in a matter of hours during the nation’s biggest crisis??? This thing take weeks to plan and execute. What about liabilities? Even if all these are do’able, why didn’t NIST put that in their report?

BECAUSE they can’t even convince themselves this is a good enough explanation. How could they expect anyone to believe such bull crap?!

Only idiots will believe anything our government feed them.

911 is a 100% inside job. That’s a fact which is easier to tell than the housing bubble. Anyone with half a brain should realize that.

Masayako

[Anonymous]

Nova special …. yes, we’ve all seen the Nova special from PBS which shows a computer generated cartoon explaining the famous “pancake theory”.

But Nova scripwriters never talk about the steel core inside the building that’s left standing in their little cartoon. What about that steel “3D grid frame” composed of structural rectangular steel members 2 feet thick? What about them? Why aren’t they still standing?

And what about the million tons of steel reinforced concrete that came pouring down on New York after being magically pulverized and turned into dust? When a concrete freeway overpass collapses during an earthquake … what happens? Well, it falls down … but it doesn’t turn to dust.

And why were people still finding small body parts and bone fragments on the top of neighboring buildings 2 months after the incident? If their collapsing “pancake theory” was true, then all the bodies and desks and chairs and file cabinets should have been found crushed and sandwiched between the WTC floors. But instead, they’re finding bits and pieces of human remains on rooftops 3 blocks away.

And why won’t the government release all of the recordings of the phone calls to 911 from people inside the building?

Why won’t they release all the recordings of the fireman’s radio conversations? Maybe they don’t want the public to hear the pop-pop-popping sounds of small explosions going off from the controlled demolition. Surviving firemen have talked about the explosions and pop-pop-popping sounds, but maybe the 911 commission doesn’t want you to actually hear those things.

And why doesn’t the government tell us why there were pools of molten steel buried deep in the rubble and still burning 2 months after the event. Jet fuel burns at a maximum 1796 degrees. Burning chairs, and fabrics, and paper can reach 1500 degrees. But, steel melts and becomes molten at 2750 degrees. So how did that steel get so hot and melt, and keep going for 2 months?

[PD]

have been reading this thread with utter amazement. Anyone who believes that 9-11 was manufactured and orchestrated by our government is a person who could be convinced of any ridiculousness, so long as it casts our government in a bad light.

Lets see, strange popping noises as evidence of explosives? I happen to think that there would be all sorts of strange noises in a building that has just been hit by full sized jet liner that has enough fuel on board to fly all the way across the US. Hmmm, does anyone really think that a building which has just sustained enormous damage would be silent? I bet some people reported groaning noises. Hey, maybe those were sound effects piped in by the vast group of people who would be required to pull this off. I can see them now, sitting around their big conference table, taking turns groaning into a tape recorder and then laughing maniacally at the results.

How many people would be needed to successfully pull this off as a US conspiracy, complete with previously placed bombs? A 1000? I haven’t heard anything from all those people. Just one Sergeant. Lets all believe this one guy and ignore the fact that he might be a liar, a guy with mental problems, a guy just after fame or a guy with an ax to grind.

Wow, all that talk about construction happening within an aging building is really scary proof! Everybody knows that once a building is up, there is never any need for repairs, remodels or improvements, right? Well, maybe if you are an owner of a four plex…

Gasp! Silverstein actually made sure he was covered for a terrorist attack! This is proof indeed!

[PD]

Hey, I have a new conspiracy theory for you! It is great and it would be a thousand times less expensive and far easier to pull off.

(Read the following in a hushed but urgent whisper, frequently looking over your shoulder to make sure no one is watching you)

What if there is a group of people out there who hate the current administration and the US and want to discredit both? So, get this, they hire a bunch of people to post a bunch of nonsense online about how the US engineered 9-11! These people cobble together a bunch of stuff about asbestos, lack of rubble, popping noises and convince everyone that buildings can never fall down no matter how they are damaged (we all know engineers are perfect and that there are never any short cuts taken in construction and that mistakes are never made). These people use some sort of cover, like interest in real estate, to hide their real agenda… EEEK! I’m getting Goosebumps!

This just in – there is new evidence suggesting that the 9-11 hijackers weren’t really radical Muslims who hate the US. They were, in fact, CIA agents who had face transplants. I heard from a reliable source that the US actually has a real transporter (like Star Trek) that was reconstructed from the Roswell spaceship and we used it to beam them off the planes at the last second. They have now had new face transplants are now posing as President Bush and his advisors.

[4plexowner]

One of the many interesting aspects of 9/11 is the fact that the towers collapsed at all.

There have been numerous high-rise buildings that have caught fire in the past. Some of them had several floors burning for more than 24 hours and didn’t fall down.

And then 9/11 occurs – first time in history that a steel-framed building collapses due to fire – it might be reasonable to think that forensic engineers would be allowed to study the steel members that failed so buildings could be built better in the future.

But what happened at ‘ground-zero’?

The site was sanitized as quickly as possible.

The steel was sold to recyclers who promised to melt it quickly.

GPS units were placed on the trucks used to haul the steel to ensure that the steel went directly to the recyclers and nowhere else. One driver was fired because he took a two hour lunch break while he had a load of steel on his truck.

Does any of this prove that 9/11 was an inside job? Nope – but it sure makes me wonder.

I have a degree in aerospace engineering. The history of aerospace is replete with accidents – mankind didn’t learn to fly without breaking a few eggs. When an accident occurred, the remains of the vehicle were studied so the vehicle could be built better next time. Metals were closely analyzed to determine exactly how the failure occurred – did the metal fatigue and gradually give way? – was the metal brittle and snapped? – was the metal not strong enough and tore?

When I contrast the degree of study given to aerospace accidents to what happened at ground zero, the cleanup of ground zero looks like a cover-up. It appears that the metal remains of the towers were intentionally destroyed before forensic engineers could examine them.

Does this prove anything? Nope – just more questions that aren’t answered by the government’s version of what happened on 9/11.

[no_such_reality]

I have a degree in aerospace engineering. The history of aerospace is replete with accidents

This wasn’t an accident.

[bub]

Christ powayseller did you check out the site that you found this "insightful" information? Below is from one of the advertisers(left side of page). Also check out the right side of the page.

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[Borat]

Keep in mind that getting an idea published on a racist website is a very easy way to discredit it.

The collapse of building 7 is very hard to explain away. But there may have been multiple things happening that day. I think the attack was real, Al Qaeda had attempted to blow those towers up in 1993 and almost succeeded. They also had a plan to hijack multiple airliners foiled when their explosives lab in the Phillipines blew up by accident. So Al Qaeda was probably behind the attacks on September 11. However, it is entirely possible that a few people with connections in high places may have received advance warning of the plot and taken advantage of it for political or economic gain. The intelligence services of the US, UK, Turkey, Egypt, Israel, and many other countries have been monitoring Al Qaeda for some time and may have had some foreknowledge of the plot.

September 11 is this generation’s Kennedy assassination. In both cases the official story is every bit as unlikely as most of the conspiracy theories. We’re also unlikely to know the real story in either case. BTW, did anyone see the recent Guardian story with new details about the assassination of Bobby Kennedy?.

And I promise there is no racist content to be found on any of my links 🙂

[Anonymous]

I do not believe that 9/11 was a conspiracy of the U.S. government.

I do believe, however, that terrorists may have had a hand in the following:

Downing of TWA flight 800

Downing of American flight 587

Bombing of Oklahoma City

There are bad folks living amongst us; I found this book a real eye-opener:

http://www.amazon.com/American-Jihad-Terrorists-Living-Among/dp/customer-reviews/0743233247

 

[kewp]

Sigh.

Go watch footage from 9/11. One can clearly see the tops of the towers begin to list just minutes prior to the collapse. The fire didn’t need to get hot enough to ‘melt steel’, just hot enough to soften the steel supports until they could no longer bear the load of the upper floors. I noticed this the day of the attacks, as did other observers on the ground. Including a friend of mine who worked in building 7 (whom felt the heat from the fireball of the second blast and could see the steel supports glowing with heat).

Speaking of building 7…

“NIST has released video and still photo analysis of Building 7 prior to its collapse that appears to indicate a greater degree of structural damage from falling debris than originally assumed by FEMA. Specifically, a large 10-story gash existed on the south facade, extending a third across the face of the building and approximately a quarter of the way into the interior. A unique aspect of the design of 7 WTC was that each outer structural column was responsible for supporting 2,000 square feet (186 square meters) of floor space, suggesting that the simultaneous removal of a number of columns would lead to a severely compromised structure. Consistent with this theory, news footage shows visible cracking and bowing of the building’s east wall immediately prior to the collapse, which started from the penthouse floors.”

The only ‘conspiracy’ here is to cover up the fact that there were plenty of warning signs that these attacks were coming and nothing was done about it. Don’t give Dubya and his cronies the credit to have masterminded anything. They are simply incompetent.

[salo_t]

Borat I’m with you on this one. I think we were attacked by radical muslims and anyone with half a brain can see that something is askew with the whole event. I also feel that our government knew this was coming, hell it was handed to Condi in a memo which she later tried to claim she didnt remember.
Bush wanted to take us to war with Iraq very very bad but if you remember just before 9/11 his ratings were actually not very good and he would need something very powerful and dramatic to get the US people on board to go to war with him.

Enter 9/11, it was all the administration needed to go get Sodam (who had nothing to do with any of it) and to start his fake war on terror. 9/11 was used for political gain and nothing more, it was Bush’s Pearl Harbor so he thought and he never lost a chance to use it as a defense for his wrong and misleading actions. The American people are right to throw these thugs out of office. Its only a matter of time before Bush will go down as America’s most miserable president.

[zk]

That link to the downing of AAL587 is a joke. There are too many errors and falsehoods to count. (But don’t tell that to conspiracy theorists; they won’t listen.)

I don’t have time (or care enough) to refute each one of them, but I will shed some light on one part that I’m more or less an expert on: Having read quite a few NTSB reports about quite a few aviation accidents, I know that eyewitnesses to aviation accidents are extremely unreliable. Even eyewitnesses who are pilots routinely give differing accounts of the same accident. And people with no knowledge of aviation usually see (or hear) things that just aren’t there and miss rather obvious things that are. These errors occur whether a Cessna 150 buys a farm in Podunk, Canada or an Airbus falls out of the sky over New York City. And I’m pretty sure terrorists aren’t targeting Cessnas in Saskatchewan.

[sstearns2]

The point about steel melting at 2750 degrees is misleading. Yes, steel melts around that temperature and yes, kerosene will not burn above about 1500 F, but the steel will loose structural integrity above about 1000 F.

The point about how fast the buildings fell is also misleading. The structure one each floor is designed to hold that floor, so once you get a few floors worth of equipment, furniture, etc., falling onto the one below it’s like dropping a bowling ball through a toothpick. It doesn’t slow it down much. Also, the main structure of the building is designed to primarily take the vertical load, so it comes apart pretty fast once you start twisting and bending the individual members.

Also, I’m sure the firefighters heard explosions. A 10 inch steel I-beam snapping will make an explosion like you wouldn’t believe.

A little internet research will make it obvious that dropping a building like that by explosive demolition would be a monumental effort and impossible to hide.

So, yes, it’s BS.

Scott

[Author]

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