ObamaCare…coming soon

[air_ogi]

[quote=AN]
Limited hours is not the same as taking the weekend off. How many urgent care do you know that have the weekend off?
[/quote]

I’ve seen many urgent care centers in Canada that work over weekends. I am sure I could find one in US that doesn’t work over the weekend.

[quote=AN]
How many American think our system is better than Canadians? How many Republicans think their ideal is better than Democrats’? How many Democrats think their ideal is better than Republicans’? How many American comes to Canada to get treated vs how many Canadian comes to America to get treated?[/quote]

Looks like at most 47% Americans prefer our system, even after all the scare tactics from big pharma and AMA.
http://tpmdc.talkingpointsmemo.com/2009/05/poll-americans-overwhelmingly-favor-universal-health-care—-until-taxes-are-mentioned.php

[Anonymous]

I’ve been reading this board for a long time, but never posted anything, however the health care debate is something I can’t stop myself from chiming in on.

I am Canadian and have been in SD for 8 years, my wife got transferred from the Canadian sub of a large multinational.

The propaganda in this country regarding the Canadian health care system is amazing and so wrong. The Canadian system is not perfect, that is for sure. Rural areas are under served. More doctors are needed, but that is the same everywhere. My wife’s doctor moved to Phoenix, and it took her 6 months to get an appointment with a new doctor here in San Diego. It’s no different here.

I can tell you from personal experience that this is ridiculous.
1. I had chest pains, went to a general practitioner (I didn’t have a regular doctor) and got in an hour. He did a few tests there and then set up 3 other cardiac tests for me (equipment he didn’t have in his office), eco, stress tests and something else, all were done within 48 hours (that was my choice, I had other things to do). He also referred me to a cardiac specialist, I was able to see him within a few weeks.
2. My wife and I were in Toronto 2 weeks ago, the day we arrived she wasn’t feeling well, so she went to see a doctor there. We are both Canadian, but since we are not resident we don’t have coverage there. She got in to see a doctor within 15 minutes and it cost her $60. Her co-pay down here would have been $30 or $35 here.
3. My aunt was diagnosed with Leukemia a month ago. She hadn’t seen a doctor in years (her choice), but wasn’t feeling well, so she went to see a doctor who ran some quick tests and called an ambulance right there and she was rushed to the top Cancer hospital in Toronto and had treatment that day. A month later (and 2 bouts of chemo) she is in remission (I was told today).

Now, the income tax issue. Well, I calculated the tax burden that we pay here in SD and compare it to what we would pay in Toronto (based on taxes this year) and wouldn’t you know it, the taxes paid (not rate, dollars) is basically the same.

All I can say is I love living here in California, but the medical system in this country is out of control. Everyone talks like this guy in the video until they get sick and are bankrupt. I don’t know how things are ever going to change in this country, but they must. The biggest problem from my perspective is the premise of health care here. All the discussions in the US start with health care is a business, and I absolutely reject that.

The biggest issue I see standing in the way of change is that the people who can bring change, the politicians have free health care for life. They are never personally burdened by the costs of health care like the rest of the population.

I don’t think Obama’s plan is going to work. It is not addressing the systemic issues in the system that have to be changed first. Ironically, Bill O’Reilly had a better plan that he discussed today on the Factor.

[Anonymous]

I’ve been reading this board for a long time, but never posted anything, however the health care debate is something I can’t stop myself from chiming in on.

I am Canadian and have been in SD for 8 years, my wife got transferred from the Canadian sub of a large multinational.

The propaganda in this country regarding the Canadian health care system is amazing and so wrong. The Canadian system is not perfect, that is for sure. Rural areas are under served. More doctors are needed, but that is the same everywhere. My wife’s doctor moved to Phoenix, and it took her 6 months to get an appointment with a new doctor here in San Diego. It’s no different here.

I can tell you from personal experience that this is ridiculous.
1. I had chest pains, went to a general practitioner (I didn’t have a regular doctor) and got in an hour. He did a few tests there and then set up 3 other cardiac tests for me (equipment he didn’t have in his office), eco, stress tests and something else, all were done within 48 hours (that was my choice, I had other things to do). He also referred me to a cardiac specialist, I was able to see him within a few weeks.
2. My wife and I were in Toronto 2 weeks ago, the day we arrived she wasn’t feeling well, so she went to see a doctor there. We are both Canadian, but since we are not resident we don’t have coverage there. She got in to see a doctor within 15 minutes and it cost her $60. Her co-pay down here would have been $30 or $35 here.
3. My aunt was diagnosed with Leukemia a month ago. She hadn’t seen a doctor in years (her choice), but wasn’t feeling well, so she went to see a doctor who ran some quick tests and called an ambulance right there and she was rushed to the top Cancer hospital in Toronto and had treatment that day. A month later (and 2 bouts of chemo) she is in remission (I was told today).

Now, the income tax issue. Well, I calculated the tax burden that we pay here in SD and compare it to what we would pay in Toronto (based on taxes this year) and wouldn’t you know it, the taxes paid (not rate, dollars) is basically the same.

All I can say is I love living here in California, but the medical system in this country is out of control. Everyone talks like this guy in the video until they get sick and are bankrupt. I don’t know how things are ever going to change in this country, but they must. The biggest problem from my perspective is the premise of health care here. All the discussions in the US start with health care is a business, and I absolutely reject that.

The biggest issue I see standing in the way of change is that the people who can bring change, the politicians have free health care for life. They are never personally burdened by the costs of health care like the rest of the population.

I don’t think Obama’s plan is going to work. It is not addressing the systemic issues in the system that have to be changed first. Ironically, Bill O’Reilly had a better plan that he discussed today on the Factor.

[Anonymous]

I’ve been reading this board for a long time, but never posted anything, however the health care debate is something I can’t stop myself from chiming in on.

I am Canadian and have been in SD for 8 years, my wife got transferred from the Canadian sub of a large multinational.

The propaganda in this country regarding the Canadian health care system is amazing and so wrong. The Canadian system is not perfect, that is for sure. Rural areas are under served. More doctors are needed, but that is the same everywhere. My wife’s doctor moved to Phoenix, and it took her 6 months to get an appointment with a new doctor here in San Diego. It’s no different here.

I can tell you from personal experience that this is ridiculous.
1. I had chest pains, went to a general practitioner (I didn’t have a regular doctor) and got in an hour. He did a few tests there and then set up 3 other cardiac tests for me (equipment he didn’t have in his office), eco, stress tests and something else, all were done within 48 hours (that was my choice, I had other things to do). He also referred me to a cardiac specialist, I was able to see him within a few weeks.
2. My wife and I were in Toronto 2 weeks ago, the day we arrived she wasn’t feeling well, so she went to see a doctor there. We are both Canadian, but since we are not resident we don’t have coverage there. She got in to see a doctor within 15 minutes and it cost her $60. Her co-pay down here would have been $30 or $35 here.
3. My aunt was diagnosed with Leukemia a month ago. She hadn’t seen a doctor in years (her choice), but wasn’t feeling well, so she went to see a doctor who ran some quick tests and called an ambulance right there and she was rushed to the top Cancer hospital in Toronto and had treatment that day. A month later (and 2 bouts of chemo) she is in remission (I was told today).

Now, the income tax issue. Well, I calculated the tax burden that we pay here in SD and compare it to what we would pay in Toronto (based on taxes this year) and wouldn’t you know it, the taxes paid (not rate, dollars) is basically the same.

All I can say is I love living here in California, but the medical system in this country is out of control. Everyone talks like this guy in the video until they get sick and are bankrupt. I don’t know how things are ever going to change in this country, but they must. The biggest problem from my perspective is the premise of health care here. All the discussions in the US start with health care is a business, and I absolutely reject that.

The biggest issue I see standing in the way of change is that the people who can bring change, the politicians have free health care for life. They are never personally burdened by the costs of health care like the rest of the population.

I don’t think Obama’s plan is going to work. It is not addressing the systemic issues in the system that have to be changed first. Ironically, Bill O’Reilly had a better plan that he discussed today on the Factor.

[Anonymous]

I’ve been reading this board for a long time, but never posted anything, however the health care debate is something I can’t stop myself from chiming in on.

I am Canadian and have been in SD for 8 years, my wife got transferred from the Canadian sub of a large multinational.

The propaganda in this country regarding the Canadian health care system is amazing and so wrong. The Canadian system is not perfect, that is for sure. Rural areas are under served. More doctors are needed, but that is the same everywhere. My wife’s doctor moved to Phoenix, and it took her 6 months to get an appointment with a new doctor here in San Diego. It’s no different here.

I can tell you from personal experience that this is ridiculous.
1. I had chest pains, went to a general practitioner (I didn’t have a regular doctor) and got in an hour. He did a few tests there and then set up 3 other cardiac tests for me (equipment he didn’t have in his office), eco, stress tests and something else, all were done within 48 hours (that was my choice, I had other things to do). He also referred me to a cardiac specialist, I was able to see him within a few weeks.
2. My wife and I were in Toronto 2 weeks ago, the day we arrived she wasn’t feeling well, so she went to see a doctor there. We are both Canadian, but since we are not resident we don’t have coverage there. She got in to see a doctor within 15 minutes and it cost her $60. Her co-pay down here would have been $30 or $35 here.
3. My aunt was diagnosed with Leukemia a month ago. She hadn’t seen a doctor in years (her choice), but wasn’t feeling well, so she went to see a doctor who ran some quick tests and called an ambulance right there and she was rushed to the top Cancer hospital in Toronto and had treatment that day. A month later (and 2 bouts of chemo) she is in remission (I was told today).

Now, the income tax issue. Well, I calculated the tax burden that we pay here in SD and compare it to what we would pay in Toronto (based on taxes this year) and wouldn’t you know it, the taxes paid (not rate, dollars) is basically the same.

All I can say is I love living here in California, but the medical system in this country is out of control. Everyone talks like this guy in the video until they get sick and are bankrupt. I don’t know how things are ever going to change in this country, but they must. The biggest problem from my perspective is the premise of health care here. All the discussions in the US start with health care is a business, and I absolutely reject that.

The biggest issue I see standing in the way of change is that the people who can bring change, the politicians have free health care for life. They are never personally burdened by the costs of health care like the rest of the population.

I don’t think Obama’s plan is going to work. It is not addressing the systemic issues in the system that have to be changed first. Ironically, Bill O’Reilly had a better plan that he discussed today on the Factor.

[Anonymous]

I’ve been reading this board for a long time, but never posted anything, however the health care debate is something I can’t stop myself from chiming in on.

I am Canadian and have been in SD for 8 years, my wife got transferred from the Canadian sub of a large multinational.

The propaganda in this country regarding the Canadian health care system is amazing and so wrong. The Canadian system is not perfect, that is for sure. Rural areas are under served. More doctors are needed, but that is the same everywhere. My wife’s doctor moved to Phoenix, and it took her 6 months to get an appointment with a new doctor here in San Diego. It’s no different here.

I can tell you from personal experience that this is ridiculous.
1. I had chest pains, went to a general practitioner (I didn’t have a regular doctor) and got in an hour. He did a few tests there and then set up 3 other cardiac tests for me (equipment he didn’t have in his office), eco, stress tests and something else, all were done within 48 hours (that was my choice, I had other things to do). He also referred me to a cardiac specialist, I was able to see him within a few weeks.
2. My wife and I were in Toronto 2 weeks ago, the day we arrived she wasn’t feeling well, so she went to see a doctor there. We are both Canadian, but since we are not resident we don’t have coverage there. She got in to see a doctor within 15 minutes and it cost her $60. Her co-pay down here would have been $30 or $35 here.
3. My aunt was diagnosed with Leukemia a month ago. She hadn’t seen a doctor in years (her choice), but wasn’t feeling well, so she went to see a doctor who ran some quick tests and called an ambulance right there and she was rushed to the top Cancer hospital in Toronto and had treatment that day. A month later (and 2 bouts of chemo) she is in remission (I was told today).

Now, the income tax issue. Well, I calculated the tax burden that we pay here in SD and compare it to what we would pay in Toronto (based on taxes this year) and wouldn’t you know it, the taxes paid (not rate, dollars) is basically the same.

All I can say is I love living here in California, but the medical system in this country is out of control. Everyone talks like this guy in the video until they get sick and are bankrupt. I don’t know how things are ever going to change in this country, but they must. The biggest problem from my perspective is the premise of health care here. All the discussions in the US start with health care is a business, and I absolutely reject that.

The biggest issue I see standing in the way of change is that the people who can bring change, the politicians have free health care for life. They are never personally burdened by the costs of health care like the rest of the population.

I don’t think Obama’s plan is going to work. It is not addressing the systemic issues in the system that have to be changed first. Ironically, Bill O’Reilly had a better plan that he discussed today on the Factor.

[GH]

I am concerned that leaving control over health care in the hands of profit motivated corporations is like leaving financial control of our country in the hands of profit motivated bankers.

When I was young and we had little money we were able to obtain decent treatment at the local community clinics in the area. They provided good service on an ability to pay scale, so for us that usually meant around $25 for an office visit and some tests.

In recent years many of these have had to close due to loss of funding or substantially raise their fees to the point they serve little purpose.

The cost of funding these programs would be minuscule in comparison to the Obama plan and would effectively get medical treatment to those unable to afford insurance or the high cost of private care.

One thing that has not been thought through is the simple fact that even the “rich” are getting hammered by the current economic downturn and despite tax increases, overall revenues will continue to collapse. Further demanding small business pay will definitely result in a lot of layoffs, thus creating more unemployed, more who qualify for the greatest level of aid and less tax revenue. This seems to be the unintended consequence of this plan. As this occurs, tax increases will have no choice to go where the real money is – what is left of our middle class here in the US.

[GH]

I am concerned that leaving control over health care in the hands of profit motivated corporations is like leaving financial control of our country in the hands of profit motivated bankers.

When I was young and we had little money we were able to obtain decent treatment at the local community clinics in the area. They provided good service on an ability to pay scale, so for us that usually meant around $25 for an office visit and some tests.

In recent years many of these have had to close due to loss of funding or substantially raise their fees to the point they serve little purpose.

The cost of funding these programs would be minuscule in comparison to the Obama plan and would effectively get medical treatment to those unable to afford insurance or the high cost of private care.

One thing that has not been thought through is the simple fact that even the “rich” are getting hammered by the current economic downturn and despite tax increases, overall revenues will continue to collapse. Further demanding small business pay will definitely result in a lot of layoffs, thus creating more unemployed, more who qualify for the greatest level of aid and less tax revenue. This seems to be the unintended consequence of this plan. As this occurs, tax increases will have no choice to go where the real money is – what is left of our middle class here in the US.

[GH]

I am concerned that leaving control over health care in the hands of profit motivated corporations is like leaving financial control of our country in the hands of profit motivated bankers.

When I was young and we had little money we were able to obtain decent treatment at the local community clinics in the area. They provided good service on an ability to pay scale, so for us that usually meant around $25 for an office visit and some tests.

In recent years many of these have had to close due to loss of funding or substantially raise their fees to the point they serve little purpose.

The cost of funding these programs would be minuscule in comparison to the Obama plan and would effectively get medical treatment to those unable to afford insurance or the high cost of private care.

One thing that has not been thought through is the simple fact that even the “rich” are getting hammered by the current economic downturn and despite tax increases, overall revenues will continue to collapse. Further demanding small business pay will definitely result in a lot of layoffs, thus creating more unemployed, more who qualify for the greatest level of aid and less tax revenue. This seems to be the unintended consequence of this plan. As this occurs, tax increases will have no choice to go where the real money is – what is left of our middle class here in the US.

[GH]

I am concerned that leaving control over health care in the hands of profit motivated corporations is like leaving financial control of our country in the hands of profit motivated bankers.

When I was young and we had little money we were able to obtain decent treatment at the local community clinics in the area. They provided good service on an ability to pay scale, so for us that usually meant around $25 for an office visit and some tests.

In recent years many of these have had to close due to loss of funding or substantially raise their fees to the point they serve little purpose.

The cost of funding these programs would be minuscule in comparison to the Obama plan and would effectively get medical treatment to those unable to afford insurance or the high cost of private care.

One thing that has not been thought through is the simple fact that even the “rich” are getting hammered by the current economic downturn and despite tax increases, overall revenues will continue to collapse. Further demanding small business pay will definitely result in a lot of layoffs, thus creating more unemployed, more who qualify for the greatest level of aid and less tax revenue. This seems to be the unintended consequence of this plan. As this occurs, tax increases will have no choice to go where the real money is – what is left of our middle class here in the US.

[GH]

I am concerned that leaving control over health care in the hands of profit motivated corporations is like leaving financial control of our country in the hands of profit motivated bankers.

When I was young and we had little money we were able to obtain decent treatment at the local community clinics in the area. They provided good service on an ability to pay scale, so for us that usually meant around $25 for an office visit and some tests.

In recent years many of these have had to close due to loss of funding or substantially raise their fees to the point they serve little purpose.

The cost of funding these programs would be minuscule in comparison to the Obama plan and would effectively get medical treatment to those unable to afford insurance or the high cost of private care.

One thing that has not been thought through is the simple fact that even the “rich” are getting hammered by the current economic downturn and despite tax increases, overall revenues will continue to collapse. Further demanding small business pay will definitely result in a lot of layoffs, thus creating more unemployed, more who qualify for the greatest level of aid and less tax revenue. This seems to be the unintended consequence of this plan. As this occurs, tax increases will have no choice to go where the real money is – what is left of our middle class here in the US.

[SDEngineer]

[quote=AN]
Anecdote is all I got. Do you have better data from independent sources?

[/quote]

Here’s the most comprehensive comparison of several first world healthcare systems I could find online.

http://www.commonwealthfund.org/usr_doc/Shea_hltsysperformanceselectednations_chartpack.pdf

You’ll note some surprising findings. One is that we lead the countries in most categories of medical errors, and our doctors provide in general the least amount of information to patients on their treatments and potential side effects thereof.

We are also on top of the list for patients who missed treatments or didn’t buy presciptions due to cost related issues.

Our cost per capita for healthcare is just about double all the other countries compared ($6102 per person per year, vs. $2k-3k per person per year – highest surveyed other than us was $3165).

The only country where it was more difficult to get in to see a doctor either same or next day was Canada (47% same or next day in the US – 36% in Canada, 81% in NZ, 69% in Germany, 66% in Australia, and 51% in the UK). 23% reported taking 6 days or longer to see a doctor (again, 2nd only to Canada). We were the worst at being able to see a doctor on nights, weekends, and holidays without having to go to an ER.

One of the few measurements which we did well in was in relatively fast access to specialists for sicker adults (2nd, Germany was best) and access for elective (non urgent) surgeries (2nd again to Germany).

6% of Germans had to go to the ER for a condition which could have been treated by a normal office visit. 26% of Americans did (the European nations averaged around 12%).

[SDEngineer]

[quote=AN]
Anecdote is all I got. Do you have better data from independent sources?

[/quote]

Here’s the most comprehensive comparison of several first world healthcare systems I could find online.

http://www.commonwealthfund.org/usr_doc/Shea_hltsysperformanceselectednations_chartpack.pdf

You’ll note some surprising findings. One is that we lead the countries in most categories of medical errors, and our doctors provide in general the least amount of information to patients on their treatments and potential side effects thereof.

We are also on top of the list for patients who missed treatments or didn’t buy presciptions due to cost related issues.

Our cost per capita for healthcare is just about double all the other countries compared ($6102 per person per year, vs. $2k-3k per person per year – highest surveyed other than us was $3165).

The only country where it was more difficult to get in to see a doctor either same or next day was Canada (47% same or next day in the US – 36% in Canada, 81% in NZ, 69% in Germany, 66% in Australia, and 51% in the UK). 23% reported taking 6 days or longer to see a doctor (again, 2nd only to Canada). We were the worst at being able to see a doctor on nights, weekends, and holidays without having to go to an ER.

One of the few measurements which we did well in was in relatively fast access to specialists for sicker adults (2nd, Germany was best) and access for elective (non urgent) surgeries (2nd again to Germany).

6% of Germans had to go to the ER for a condition which could have been treated by a normal office visit. 26% of Americans did (the European nations averaged around 12%).

[SDEngineer]

[quote=AN]
Anecdote is all I got. Do you have better data from independent sources?

[/quote]

Here’s the most comprehensive comparison of several first world healthcare systems I could find online.

http://www.commonwealthfund.org/usr_doc/Shea_hltsysperformanceselectednations_chartpack.pdf

You’ll note some surprising findings. One is that we lead the countries in most categories of medical errors, and our doctors provide in general the least amount of information to patients on their treatments and potential side effects thereof.

We are also on top of the list for patients who missed treatments or didn’t buy presciptions due to cost related issues.

Our cost per capita for healthcare is just about double all the other countries compared ($6102 per person per year, vs. $2k-3k per person per year – highest surveyed other than us was $3165).

The only country where it was more difficult to get in to see a doctor either same or next day was Canada (47% same or next day in the US – 36% in Canada, 81% in NZ, 69% in Germany, 66% in Australia, and 51% in the UK). 23% reported taking 6 days or longer to see a doctor (again, 2nd only to Canada). We were the worst at being able to see a doctor on nights, weekends, and holidays without having to go to an ER.

One of the few measurements which we did well in was in relatively fast access to specialists for sicker adults (2nd, Germany was best) and access for elective (non urgent) surgeries (2nd again to Germany).

6% of Germans had to go to the ER for a condition which could have been treated by a normal office visit. 26% of Americans did (the European nations averaged around 12%).

[SDEngineer]

[quote=AN]
Anecdote is all I got. Do you have better data from independent sources?

[/quote]

Here’s the most comprehensive comparison of several first world healthcare systems I could find online.

http://www.commonwealthfund.org/usr_doc/Shea_hltsysperformanceselectednations_chartpack.pdf

You’ll note some surprising findings. One is that we lead the countries in most categories of medical errors, and our doctors provide in general the least amount of information to patients on their treatments and potential side effects thereof.

We are also on top of the list for patients who missed treatments or didn’t buy presciptions due to cost related issues.

Our cost per capita for healthcare is just about double all the other countries compared ($6102 per person per year, vs. $2k-3k per person per year – highest surveyed other than us was $3165).

The only country where it was more difficult to get in to see a doctor either same or next day was Canada (47% same or next day in the US – 36% in Canada, 81% in NZ, 69% in Germany, 66% in Australia, and 51% in the UK). 23% reported taking 6 days or longer to see a doctor (again, 2nd only to Canada). We were the worst at being able to see a doctor on nights, weekends, and holidays without having to go to an ER.

One of the few measurements which we did well in was in relatively fast access to specialists for sicker adults (2nd, Germany was best) and access for elective (non urgent) surgeries (2nd again to Germany).

6% of Germans had to go to the ER for a condition which could have been treated by a normal office visit. 26% of Americans did (the European nations averaged around 12%).

[Author]

Posts