Nationswide protests-will they spread?

[masayako]

Just the bailouts of the large corporations alone is worth the revolution. This is just unacceptable to help the Rich by taking advantage of the Low and Middle classes.

[temeculaguy]

This will fizzle out because as I just posted on the recession thread, the recession will end and none of this will matter. Why you ask? Because of the Detroit Lions and the Detroit Tigers.

This isn’t a joke, the last bad economic times we felt were the late 1970’s and the 1980 US Olympic Hockey team ended that. It’s well documented, don’t watch the movie “miracle,” watch the documentary.

You people believe it was foreign policy, politics, Reagan. Hogwash, it was the hockey team. I cry every time I watch that documentary right when Al Michaels screams “do you believe in miracles.” Because they saved us from the russians and opec. College kids beat Russian pros, against all odds and energized a nation.

Tonight, the lions went to 5-0, the freaking lions, the worst team in football from the worst hit city in America. The crowd was galvanized and energized. they punked the bears in statistical ways never before done in the bears 92 year history. I thought I heard chants of “U S A” in the back of my mind circa 1980. The detroit tigers may go to the world series 9I can;t describe the games because baseball makes me fall asleep faster than tylenol PM).

But that’s it, the protests will end, the epitome of the working man, the detroit fan, has started the next real revolution. I’m not a detroit sports fan, but i am a student of the human collective psyche, that same psyche that propelled New Orleans to a superbowl post katrina and if all you do is read about politics and believe in politics, you are going to miss the truth as it happens. I still think the packers win the division, but I’m smart enough not to bet against the lions at home because the world just changed, just like it did in 1980. This revolution will start in the motor city and it wont be because of voting.

[temeculaguy]

I’m getting a Lions jersey, just so I can always remember my theory about where it started, who’s with me, plenty of seats left on this bandwagon.

Ford field set an attendance record tonight. The cradle of blue collar on this hemisphere is being described on espn as the the northern version of the french quarter. When the angriest become the most invested and jubilant, the protest signs find the trash can. Sorry, the park is closed, the moose out front should have told you. But maybe in about 8 years we can do this all again, in fact you can bet on it, but this phase is about to end. I’m making preparations for the climate to change, the real question is, are you? If you aren’t, you are no better than the bubble buyers who felt everything will always go in the same direction that it has recently. So instead of housing always goes up, the phrase is gold will always go up, the economy will worsen, jobs will be lost, politicians will waste money. You believe it because you’ve seen it happen lately and you read experts telling you it will continue. Ever wonder if that 2007 home buyer read something about real estate always going up, matched that with what he’d seen for a few years and he felt he was right. That’s you right now, you are going to miss it, you missed the lions game, you are missing the signs, I’m doing you a favor, hopefully you wont realize it two years too late.

[CA renter]

[quote=pri_dk][quote=jpinpb]Blame it on the pensioners.[/quote]

I think the most likely suspects are those who came out the crisis completely unscathed.

That would be many Wall Street/banker types, but also the “pensioners.”

The pensioners were actually more crafty in their scheme. Some bankers may eventually pay for their crimes, but the law provides absolute protection for anyone receiving a government pension.[/quote]

Again, the benefits are protected/guaranteed, but the source of the pension contributions can vary. Public workers have been contributing more and more over the past few years. In many cases, taxpayers are not contributing anything at all toward the pensions — the employees are paying 100% of the contributions to their pensions.

The public union workers did not at all come out unscathed. Have you completely missed all the layoffs, benefit cuts, introduction of a two-tiered system in many municipalities, wage and benefit cuts, etc.??? In the meantime, compensation for the financial elite is at all-time highs. Not only that, but the PTB has managed to brainwash all the idiots into believing that the unions have caused all our problems. The public union employees had **NOTHING** to do with the “financial crisis” and the recession/depression.

You’re right…suspect those who came out unscathed.

The OWS movement will stay on target. The financial industry is 100% responsible for our economic problems, including the “pension crisis.” Fix the problems/corruption in the financial sector, and most of our other problems will largely disappear after a period of adjustment.

[Anonymous]

[quote=CA renter]Not only that, but the PTB has managed to brainwash all the idiots into believing that the unions have caused all our problems.[/quote]

Nobody believes that unions cause all the problems. They are one of the problems.

I grew up in the rust belt. I know firsthand what unions can do to an economy.

You really believe that only “1%” of the population is greedy?

[Coronita]

deleted… no need to poke the bear.

[jpinpb]

TG – That was like a real football game should be played. I’m glad Detroit won. They have so little.

Reminded me of the ATT commercial where the parents are trying to decide if the boy or girl can pick what gets recorded. The girl has the nice hair and they like her better, but the boy has so little, let him pick.

Detroit played well and they deserve the win. I’m glad for them.

Now back to the matter at hand. I hope OWS stays on course. Hopefully others won’t get sidetracked as to the real cause of this whole mess. While many played a part in it, the root of the problem lies w/Wall St bankers and the politicians they own.

[briansd1]

Actually, I agree with CA renter that Wall Street is responsible for the financial crisis. They developed the products that allowed greed and irresponsbility to flourish.

State and local government funding is another problem but they did not cause the financial crisis.

That being said, the pensioners were greedy and they got want they wanted. The cutbacks at the state and local levels do not hurt the pensioners who are guaranteed the benefits by law. The cutbacks are hurting ordinary citizens who are doing without services.

[poorgradstudent]

Corporate profits are up. Salaries and employment are still down. What’s not to hate? The 1% have a lot of explaining to do.

[Anonymous]

[quote=briansd1]State and local government funding is another problem but they did not cause the financial crisis.[/quote]

Right. Problem is, folks are dumbing it down and calling it “the” financial crisis. There are multiple problems.

[quote]That being said, the pensioners were greedy and they got want they wanted. The cutbacks at the state and local levels do not hurt the pensioners who are guaranteed the benefits by law. The cutbacks are hurting ordinary citizens who are doing without services.[/quote]

Yup. Greed is greed.

[sdduuuude]

I think it will die on the vine as well – simply because there is nothing to actually do. I support their right to protest and I don’t hate their list of demands, but I just don’t think it will accomplish anything tangible.

“Wall Street” is not a person or an organization. It’s like protesting against vapor and hoping to control it.

“Hey you wall street people – yeah, you thousands of people there. Stop that. I’m not sure what you are doing but I have no money and I think it is your fault. So, stop it – whatever it is you are doing – and everything will be OK.” I just don’t see it going anywhere.

It seems the protesters have accepted the notion that how the banks go is how our economy goes – I guess Paulson convinced them – and so they feel the need to exercise some control over the banks.

I see it this way – instead of dictating how the banks operate in order to keep our economy more stable, we really need to disassociate the health of the economy from the health of private banks so we can let them fail when they do stupid things. This way, we don’t have to spend all this time and effort manipulating the banking industry with a spiderweb of regulations, loopholes, bail-outs and closed-door meetings with federal reserve officers under the guise that that it helps the economy. We can just let the stupid banks fizzle away.

And, in the long run, keeping the stupid banks alive only results in a weaker baning system anyway.

The OWS crowd should really be protesting the federal reserve banking system but somehow it is “Wall Street’s” fault. I guess they are in bed together, though. With some luck, maybe the OWS will transform into an anti-federal-reserve movement, in which case maybe it will go somewhere useful.

[NotCranky]

Wake me up when someone protesting sets himself on fire, or whatever the American equivalent is…Turning off the TV? Dropping that Big Gulp?

[GH]

Finally, Americans behaving like Americans.

Freedom is not to be taken for granted!

[UCGal]

The most concise goals of OWS that I’ve seen are here:

Basically
– reinstate Glass Steagall
– audit the fed
– reverse citizens united
– overhaul the tax code.

Those are tangible goals.

I also see a lot in common with the OWS movement and the very early tea party movement – before it got co-opted by Dick Army and the GOP… When Santelli declared we should have a tea party to protest the bailouts – and folks started hanging out outside the homes of bankers who got HUGE bonuses, after taking TARP money and being bailed out… That wasn’t a left/right thing – that was anger about how the losses of the banks were socialized, but the riches, in the forms of bonuses, were privatized… But then the tea party became about hatred of Obama and turned inot something else.

The underlying anger and populist feeling never went away – just got converted.

The United States has had a long history of protests actually having an impact on goverment.

* Boston Tea Party – similar to todays OWS move in many ways – protests were against government giving tax advantage to the East India Trading company at the expense of other folks.
* Womens movement
* Labor movement- very big in the 1930s – but lots of different protests.
* 1960’s student protests against the war, for civil rights, ets.
* Tea Party protests…. Can’t say they haven’t impacted the way congress is acting – or the presidential candidates are acting.

I first took notice of the OWS thing a few weeks ago (with the macing of the 4 girls, followed the next week by the police corralling people so they could arrest them on the Brooklyn bridge.) And my initial reaction was that the country was reaching a tipping point – where the corporations and the politicians they’ve bought and paid for might have to take notice.

[jpinpb]

UCGal – thanks for the concise list. The list I posted details a few goals. Good thing the American Revolution had some people w/backbone and conviction.

[Author]

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