Lord of the Flies

[Allan from Fallbrook]

[quote=briansd1]
[quote=Arraya]
You think if only people were smart and voted D that this outcome would have changed. This is just a modern liberal defense mechanism to throwing the poor and working class under the bus 40 years ago. You are, in a sense, blaming victims.
[/quote]

Yes, I’m blaming the victims. But if the victims of the past we able to rise up and fight back with pitch and folks, the victims of today can overcome the psychological oppression that is causing them stress and anxiety.

We have much better health knowledge today. We should use it.[/quote]

Brian: When did you graduate from college? Serious question and not being a smartass. I ask because you resort to polemic, or fall back on certain memes/tropes when challenged. This has the definite whiff of the post-structuralist Political Theory that’s so prevalent on campuses now (and has been since the early 1970s).

I was just curious when you graduated.

[Arraya]

[quote=briansd1]

I agree that there are structural and systemic problems with our society.

I’d rather have a slow boil so that, at least, we have a chance to peacefully transition to a new order. Whatever that new order is, nobody knows.

I don’t think a collapse of the existing order is good.

For example, revolution in the Egypt might have felt good for the demonstrators and their western supporters for a few months. But now they have slower economic growth and more poverty because of the instability. .[/quote]

Well, either way it will be messy. My own personal timeline is anywhere from 10 -20 years. I go with the shorter timeframe because I’d rather see it happen when I am younger than have a society in complete dysfunction when I am in my twilight years. I’m selfish that way. Though, looking at the overall debt situation, the west could get another serious kick in the teeth in a relative short timeframe – which would send shock waves are the world. With almost 2/3rds of the the US with no savings a credit contraction could bring the pain pretty quickly.

[quote=briansd1]
Yes, I’m blaming the victims. But if the victims of the past we able to rise up and fight back with pitch and folks, the victims of today can overcome the psychological oppression that is causing them stress and anxiety.

We have much better health knowledge today. We should use it.[/quote]

Brian, I don’t think you will be able to convince 10s millions of people to just suck it up and take it to give you comfort. And I am not talking about getting to own big screen TVs or Ipods, I’m talking about being about to have a decent standard of living, security and dignity. Besides some peasant uprisings like we saw in the UK(with the middle class joining in) what is feared is organized protest – like we see in spain, greece and Israel. Large segments of population getting forced to lower standards of living will eventually organize and get help within the “managerial class” that sees what is happening and thinks it’s not a good direction to go. Protests are largely ineffective now, but it’s early in the transition

One thing is certain, keep on bullshitting people, they will eventually pick up on it and be pissed.

Some stats

#1 A new Washington Post poll has found that a whopping 78 percent of Americans are dissatisfied “with the way this country’s political system is working”.

#2 That same poll found that only 26 percent of Americans believe that the federal government can solve the economic problems that we are now facing.

#3 Gallup says that Barack Obama’s job approval rating has hit an all-time low of 39%.

#4 According to a recent CBS News/New York Times poll, Congress has a disapproval rating of 82%.

#5 A new Rasmussen survey has found that 85 percent of Americans believe that members of Congress “are more interested in helping their own careers than in helping other people.”

#6 That same survey found that 46 percent of the American people believe that most members of Congress are corrupt. That figure was a new all-time high.

#7 According to a different Rasmussen survey, only 17 percent of Americans now believe that the U.S. government has the consent of the governed.

#8 A recent Reuters/Ipsos poll discovered that 73 percent of the American people believe that the nation is “on the wrong track”.

#9 A recent poll taken by Rasmussen found that 68 percent of Americans believe that we are actually in a recession right now.

#10 According to Gallup, the percentage of Americans that lack confidence in U.S. banks is now at an all-time high of 36%.

#11 U.S. consumer confidence is now at its lowest level in 30 years.

#12 According to a recent Washington Post-ABC News poll, 90 percent of Americans believe that the economy is performing poorly.

#13 That same poll found that approximately 80 percent of Americans believe that it is “difficult” to find a job these days.

#14 According to one recent poll, 39 percent of Americans believe that the U.S. economy has now entered a “permanent decline”.

#15 Another recent survey found that 48 percent of Americans believe that it is likely that another great Depression will begin within the next 12 months.

#16 According to a brand new Rasmussen survey, 48% of Americans believe that reductions in government spending are “at least somewhat likely” to result in civil unrest inside the United States.

That is a serious loss of faith taking hold on a mass-scale. Interestingly, these trends are mirrored around the world, not just the US.

[Arraya]

[quote=briansd1]

I agree that there are structural and systemic problems with our society.

I’d rather have a slow boil so that, at least, we have a chance to peacefully transition to a new order. Whatever that new order is, nobody knows.

I don’t think a collapse of the existing order is good.

For example, revolution in the Egypt might have felt good for the demonstrators and their western supporters for a few months. But now they have slower economic growth and more poverty because of the instability. .[/quote]

Well, either way it will be messy. My own personal timeline is anywhere from 10 -20 years. I go with the shorter timeframe because I’d rather see it happen when I am younger than have a society in complete dysfunction when I am in my twilight years. I’m selfish that way. Though, looking at the overall debt situation, the west could get another serious kick in the teeth in a relative short timeframe – which would send shock waves are the world. With almost 2/3rds of the the US with no savings a credit contraction could bring the pain pretty quickly.

[quote=briansd1]
Yes, I’m blaming the victims. But if the victims of the past we able to rise up and fight back with pitch and folks, the victims of today can overcome the psychological oppression that is causing them stress and anxiety.

We have much better health knowledge today. We should use it.[/quote]

Brian, I don’t think you will be able to convince 10s millions of people to just suck it up and take it to give you comfort. And I am not talking about getting to own big screen TVs or Ipods, I’m talking about being about to have a decent standard of living, security and dignity. Besides some peasant uprisings like we saw in the UK(with the middle class joining in) what is feared is organized protest – like we see in spain, greece and Israel. Large segments of population getting forced to lower standards of living will eventually organize and get help within the “managerial class” that sees what is happening and thinks it’s not a good direction to go. Protests are largely ineffective now, but it’s early in the transition

One thing is certain, keep on bullshitting people, they will eventually pick up on it and be pissed.

Some stats

#1 A new Washington Post poll has found that a whopping 78 percent of Americans are dissatisfied “with the way this country’s political system is working”.

#2 That same poll found that only 26 percent of Americans believe that the federal government can solve the economic problems that we are now facing.

#3 Gallup says that Barack Obama’s job approval rating has hit an all-time low of 39%.

#4 According to a recent CBS News/New York Times poll, Congress has a disapproval rating of 82%.

#5 A new Rasmussen survey has found that 85 percent of Americans believe that members of Congress “are more interested in helping their own careers than in helping other people.”

#6 That same survey found that 46 percent of the American people believe that most members of Congress are corrupt. That figure was a new all-time high.

#7 According to a different Rasmussen survey, only 17 percent of Americans now believe that the U.S. government has the consent of the governed.

#8 A recent Reuters/Ipsos poll discovered that 73 percent of the American people believe that the nation is “on the wrong track”.

#9 A recent poll taken by Rasmussen found that 68 percent of Americans believe that we are actually in a recession right now.

#10 According to Gallup, the percentage of Americans that lack confidence in U.S. banks is now at an all-time high of 36%.

#11 U.S. consumer confidence is now at its lowest level in 30 years.

#12 According to a recent Washington Post-ABC News poll, 90 percent of Americans believe that the economy is performing poorly.

#13 That same poll found that approximately 80 percent of Americans believe that it is “difficult” to find a job these days.

#14 According to one recent poll, 39 percent of Americans believe that the U.S. economy has now entered a “permanent decline”.

#15 Another recent survey found that 48 percent of Americans believe that it is likely that another great Depression will begin within the next 12 months.

#16 According to a brand new Rasmussen survey, 48% of Americans believe that reductions in government spending are “at least somewhat likely” to result in civil unrest inside the United States.

That is a serious loss of faith taking hold on a mass-scale. Interestingly, these trends are mirrored around the world, not just the US.

[Arraya]

[quote=briansd1]

I agree that there are structural and systemic problems with our society.

I’d rather have a slow boil so that, at least, we have a chance to peacefully transition to a new order. Whatever that new order is, nobody knows.

I don’t think a collapse of the existing order is good.

For example, revolution in the Egypt might have felt good for the demonstrators and their western supporters for a few months. But now they have slower economic growth and more poverty because of the instability. .[/quote]

Well, either way it will be messy. My own personal timeline is anywhere from 10 -20 years. I go with the shorter timeframe because I’d rather see it happen when I am younger than have a society in complete dysfunction when I am in my twilight years. I’m selfish that way. Though, looking at the overall debt situation, the west could get another serious kick in the teeth in a relative short timeframe – which would send shock waves are the world. With almost 2/3rds of the the US with no savings a credit contraction could bring the pain pretty quickly.

[quote=briansd1]
Yes, I’m blaming the victims. But if the victims of the past we able to rise up and fight back with pitch and folks, the victims of today can overcome the psychological oppression that is causing them stress and anxiety.

We have much better health knowledge today. We should use it.[/quote]

Brian, I don’t think you will be able to convince 10s millions of people to just suck it up and take it to give you comfort. And I am not talking about getting to own big screen TVs or Ipods, I’m talking about being about to have a decent standard of living, security and dignity. Besides some peasant uprisings like we saw in the UK(with the middle class joining in) what is feared is organized protest – like we see in spain, greece and Israel. Large segments of population getting forced to lower standards of living will eventually organize and get help within the “managerial class” that sees what is happening and thinks it’s not a good direction to go. Protests are largely ineffective now, but it’s early in the transition

One thing is certain, keep on bullshitting people, they will eventually pick up on it and be pissed.

Some stats

#1 A new Washington Post poll has found that a whopping 78 percent of Americans are dissatisfied “with the way this country’s political system is working”.

#2 That same poll found that only 26 percent of Americans believe that the federal government can solve the economic problems that we are now facing.

#3 Gallup says that Barack Obama’s job approval rating has hit an all-time low of 39%.

#4 According to a recent CBS News/New York Times poll, Congress has a disapproval rating of 82%.

#5 A new Rasmussen survey has found that 85 percent of Americans believe that members of Congress “are more interested in helping their own careers than in helping other people.”

#6 That same survey found that 46 percent of the American people believe that most members of Congress are corrupt. That figure was a new all-time high.

#7 According to a different Rasmussen survey, only 17 percent of Americans now believe that the U.S. government has the consent of the governed.

#8 A recent Reuters/Ipsos poll discovered that 73 percent of the American people believe that the nation is “on the wrong track”.

#9 A recent poll taken by Rasmussen found that 68 percent of Americans believe that we are actually in a recession right now.

#10 According to Gallup, the percentage of Americans that lack confidence in U.S. banks is now at an all-time high of 36%.

#11 U.S. consumer confidence is now at its lowest level in 30 years.

#12 According to a recent Washington Post-ABC News poll, 90 percent of Americans believe that the economy is performing poorly.

#13 That same poll found that approximately 80 percent of Americans believe that it is “difficult” to find a job these days.

#14 According to one recent poll, 39 percent of Americans believe that the U.S. economy has now entered a “permanent decline”.

#15 Another recent survey found that 48 percent of Americans believe that it is likely that another great Depression will begin within the next 12 months.

#16 According to a brand new Rasmussen survey, 48% of Americans believe that reductions in government spending are “at least somewhat likely” to result in civil unrest inside the United States.

That is a serious loss of faith taking hold on a mass-scale. Interestingly, these trends are mirrored around the world, not just the US.

[Arraya]

[quote=briansd1]

I agree that there are structural and systemic problems with our society.

I’d rather have a slow boil so that, at least, we have a chance to peacefully transition to a new order. Whatever that new order is, nobody knows.

I don’t think a collapse of the existing order is good.

For example, revolution in the Egypt might have felt good for the demonstrators and their western supporters for a few months. But now they have slower economic growth and more poverty because of the instability. .[/quote]

Well, either way it will be messy. My own personal timeline is anywhere from 10 -20 years. I go with the shorter timeframe because I’d rather see it happen when I am younger than have a society in complete dysfunction when I am in my twilight years. I’m selfish that way. Though, looking at the overall debt situation, the west could get another serious kick in the teeth in a relative short timeframe – which would send shock waves are the world. With almost 2/3rds of the the US with no savings a credit contraction could bring the pain pretty quickly.

[quote=briansd1]
Yes, I’m blaming the victims. But if the victims of the past we able to rise up and fight back with pitch and folks, the victims of today can overcome the psychological oppression that is causing them stress and anxiety.

We have much better health knowledge today. We should use it.[/quote]

Brian, I don’t think you will be able to convince 10s millions of people to just suck it up and take it to give you comfort. And I am not talking about getting to own big screen TVs or Ipods, I’m talking about being about to have a decent standard of living, security and dignity. Besides some peasant uprisings like we saw in the UK(with the middle class joining in) what is feared is organized protest – like we see in spain, greece and Israel. Large segments of population getting forced to lower standards of living will eventually organize and get help within the “managerial class” that sees what is happening and thinks it’s not a good direction to go. Protests are largely ineffective now, but it’s early in the transition

One thing is certain, keep on bullshitting people, they will eventually pick up on it and be pissed.

Some stats

#1 A new Washington Post poll has found that a whopping 78 percent of Americans are dissatisfied “with the way this country’s political system is working”.

#2 That same poll found that only 26 percent of Americans believe that the federal government can solve the economic problems that we are now facing.

#3 Gallup says that Barack Obama’s job approval rating has hit an all-time low of 39%.

#4 According to a recent CBS News/New York Times poll, Congress has a disapproval rating of 82%.

#5 A new Rasmussen survey has found that 85 percent of Americans believe that members of Congress “are more interested in helping their own careers than in helping other people.”

#6 That same survey found that 46 percent of the American people believe that most members of Congress are corrupt. That figure was a new all-time high.

#7 According to a different Rasmussen survey, only 17 percent of Americans now believe that the U.S. government has the consent of the governed.

#8 A recent Reuters/Ipsos poll discovered that 73 percent of the American people believe that the nation is “on the wrong track”.

#9 A recent poll taken by Rasmussen found that 68 percent of Americans believe that we are actually in a recession right now.

#10 According to Gallup, the percentage of Americans that lack confidence in U.S. banks is now at an all-time high of 36%.

#11 U.S. consumer confidence is now at its lowest level in 30 years.

#12 According to a recent Washington Post-ABC News poll, 90 percent of Americans believe that the economy is performing poorly.

#13 That same poll found that approximately 80 percent of Americans believe that it is “difficult” to find a job these days.

#14 According to one recent poll, 39 percent of Americans believe that the U.S. economy has now entered a “permanent decline”.

#15 Another recent survey found that 48 percent of Americans believe that it is likely that another great Depression will begin within the next 12 months.

#16 According to a brand new Rasmussen survey, 48% of Americans believe that reductions in government spending are “at least somewhat likely” to result in civil unrest inside the United States.

That is a serious loss of faith taking hold on a mass-scale. Interestingly, these trends are mirrored around the world, not just the US.

[Arraya]

[quote=briansd1]

I agree that there are structural and systemic problems with our society.

I’d rather have a slow boil so that, at least, we have a chance to peacefully transition to a new order. Whatever that new order is, nobody knows.

I don’t think a collapse of the existing order is good.

For example, revolution in the Egypt might have felt good for the demonstrators and their western supporters for a few months. But now they have slower economic growth and more poverty because of the instability. .[/quote]

Well, either way it will be messy. My own personal timeline is anywhere from 10 -20 years. I go with the shorter timeframe because I’d rather see it happen when I am younger than have a society in complete dysfunction when I am in my twilight years. I’m selfish that way. Though, looking at the overall debt situation, the west could get another serious kick in the teeth in a relative short timeframe – which would send shock waves are the world. With almost 2/3rds of the the US with no savings a credit contraction could bring the pain pretty quickly.

[quote=briansd1]
Yes, I’m blaming the victims. But if the victims of the past we able to rise up and fight back with pitch and folks, the victims of today can overcome the psychological oppression that is causing them stress and anxiety.

We have much better health knowledge today. We should use it.[/quote]

Brian, I don’t think you will be able to convince 10s millions of people to just suck it up and take it to give you comfort. And I am not talking about getting to own big screen TVs or Ipods, I’m talking about being about to have a decent standard of living, security and dignity. Besides some peasant uprisings like we saw in the UK(with the middle class joining in) what is feared is organized protest – like we see in spain, greece and Israel. Large segments of population getting forced to lower standards of living will eventually organize and get help within the “managerial class” that sees what is happening and thinks it’s not a good direction to go. Protests are largely ineffective now, but it’s early in the transition

One thing is certain, keep on bullshitting people, they will eventually pick up on it and be pissed.

Some stats

#1 A new Washington Post poll has found that a whopping 78 percent of Americans are dissatisfied “with the way this country’s political system is working”.

#2 That same poll found that only 26 percent of Americans believe that the federal government can solve the economic problems that we are now facing.

#3 Gallup says that Barack Obama’s job approval rating has hit an all-time low of 39%.

#4 According to a recent CBS News/New York Times poll, Congress has a disapproval rating of 82%.

#5 A new Rasmussen survey has found that 85 percent of Americans believe that members of Congress “are more interested in helping their own careers than in helping other people.”

#6 That same survey found that 46 percent of the American people believe that most members of Congress are corrupt. That figure was a new all-time high.

#7 According to a different Rasmussen survey, only 17 percent of Americans now believe that the U.S. government has the consent of the governed.

#8 A recent Reuters/Ipsos poll discovered that 73 percent of the American people believe that the nation is “on the wrong track”.

#9 A recent poll taken by Rasmussen found that 68 percent of Americans believe that we are actually in a recession right now.

#10 According to Gallup, the percentage of Americans that lack confidence in U.S. banks is now at an all-time high of 36%.

#11 U.S. consumer confidence is now at its lowest level in 30 years.

#12 According to a recent Washington Post-ABC News poll, 90 percent of Americans believe that the economy is performing poorly.

#13 That same poll found that approximately 80 percent of Americans believe that it is “difficult” to find a job these days.

#14 According to one recent poll, 39 percent of Americans believe that the U.S. economy has now entered a “permanent decline”.

#15 Another recent survey found that 48 percent of Americans believe that it is likely that another great Depression will begin within the next 12 months.

#16 According to a brand new Rasmussen survey, 48% of Americans believe that reductions in government spending are “at least somewhat likely” to result in civil unrest inside the United States.

That is a serious loss of faith taking hold on a mass-scale. Interestingly, these trends are mirrored around the world, not just the US.

[briansd1]

[quote=Arraya] You think if only people were smart and voted D that this outcome would have changed. This is just a modern liberal defense mechanism to throwing the poor and working class under the bus 40 years ago. You are, in a sense, blaming victims. [/quote]

Another thing Arraya, it’s not fair to blame liberals for throwing the poor under the bus.

In some ways, working middle-class Americans rejected reasons and threw themselves under the bus when they elected Ronald Reagan.

Jimmy Carter had a vision of a more peaceful society centered more on thrift and kindness for one another. Reagan proposed a bad-ass cowboy society and unleashed the debt mania that resulted in the 2008 financial crisis.

Perhaps Americans got what they deserved.

As far as the rest of the world is concerned, I see more development and millions upon millions lifted out of poverty. It’s not all that bad from a global perspective.

[briansd1]

[quote=Arraya] You think if only people were smart and voted D that this outcome would have changed. This is just a modern liberal defense mechanism to throwing the poor and working class under the bus 40 years ago. You are, in a sense, blaming victims. [/quote]

Another thing Arraya, it’s not fair to blame liberals for throwing the poor under the bus.

In some ways, working middle-class Americans rejected reasons and threw themselves under the bus when they elected Ronald Reagan.

Jimmy Carter had a vision of a more peaceful society centered more on thrift and kindness for one another. Reagan proposed a bad-ass cowboy society and unleashed the debt mania that resulted in the 2008 financial crisis.

Perhaps Americans got what they deserved.

As far as the rest of the world is concerned, I see more development and millions upon millions lifted out of poverty. It’s not all that bad from a global perspective.

[briansd1]

[quote=Arraya] You think if only people were smart and voted D that this outcome would have changed. This is just a modern liberal defense mechanism to throwing the poor and working class under the bus 40 years ago. You are, in a sense, blaming victims. [/quote]

Another thing Arraya, it’s not fair to blame liberals for throwing the poor under the bus.

In some ways, working middle-class Americans rejected reasons and threw themselves under the bus when they elected Ronald Reagan.

Jimmy Carter had a vision of a more peaceful society centered more on thrift and kindness for one another. Reagan proposed a bad-ass cowboy society and unleashed the debt mania that resulted in the 2008 financial crisis.

Perhaps Americans got what they deserved.

As far as the rest of the world is concerned, I see more development and millions upon millions lifted out of poverty. It’s not all that bad from a global perspective.

[briansd1]

[quote=Arraya] You think if only people were smart and voted D that this outcome would have changed. This is just a modern liberal defense mechanism to throwing the poor and working class under the bus 40 years ago. You are, in a sense, blaming victims. [/quote]

Another thing Arraya, it’s not fair to blame liberals for throwing the poor under the bus.

In some ways, working middle-class Americans rejected reasons and threw themselves under the bus when they elected Ronald Reagan.

Jimmy Carter had a vision of a more peaceful society centered more on thrift and kindness for one another. Reagan proposed a bad-ass cowboy society and unleashed the debt mania that resulted in the 2008 financial crisis.

Perhaps Americans got what they deserved.

As far as the rest of the world is concerned, I see more development and millions upon millions lifted out of poverty. It’s not all that bad from a global perspective.

[briansd1]

[quote=Arraya] You think if only people were smart and voted D that this outcome would have changed. This is just a modern liberal defense mechanism to throwing the poor and working class under the bus 40 years ago. You are, in a sense, blaming victims. [/quote]

Another thing Arraya, it’s not fair to blame liberals for throwing the poor under the bus.

In some ways, working middle-class Americans rejected reasons and threw themselves under the bus when they elected Ronald Reagan.

Jimmy Carter had a vision of a more peaceful society centered more on thrift and kindness for one another. Reagan proposed a bad-ass cowboy society and unleashed the debt mania that resulted in the 2008 financial crisis.

Perhaps Americans got what they deserved.

As far as the rest of the world is concerned, I see more development and millions upon millions lifted out of poverty. It’s not all that bad from a global perspective.

[scaredyclassic]

ok, based on all this, the primary issue is see is, shoudl i refinance to a 15 year mortgage.

[scaredyclassic]

ok, based on all this, the primary issue is see is, shoudl i refinance to a 15 year mortgage.

[scaredyclassic]

ok, based on all this, the primary issue is see is, shoudl i refinance to a 15 year mortgage.

[scaredyclassic]

ok, based on all this, the primary issue is see is, shoudl i refinance to a 15 year mortgage.

[Author]

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