JFK: Defending the Indefensible

[hs]

Lostkitty,
You are right on target!

[Anonymous]

PD

Shoes? Give me a break– I’m not Condi Rice.

I was a social worker with military families until our funding was cut, so I have seen the lines

http://www.signonsandiego.com/uniontrib/20061013/news_7m13bread.html

We’re about the facts, right. I’m waiting for your data.

[PD]

Contrary to what some people seem to think, O’Reilly does have many valid points. I also disagree with him on occasion. Sometimes my disagreement is severe, sometimes mild. I happen to have severely disagreed with him a few nights ago. I am not a strict party-line kind of person. I make up my own mind. For instance, I throw away those voter suggestion packets I receive from the Republican party without looking at them and vote as I see fit.

I used to watch Chris Matthews every night. Sometimes I agreed with him, sometimes I disagreed with him. At the time I was watching him, he had an obvious liberal slant (I have not watched him in years so I can’t speak for his current views). O’Reilly has an obvious conservative slant.

KJM, as for your facts about military service, I have not provided what you are demanding because I think it a silly point and have no interest in wasting hours slogging through records to find what you have demanded. I thought your post about military service was so obviously cherry picked as to be proof of nothing. You also have mixed in elected officials with TV/radio personalities. And that proves what exactly?

Your work for the benefit of military families is commendable. Have they asked you to speak up on their behalf?

[Anonymous]

PD

I speak only for myself. I would never be presumptious enough to say I speak for anyone else.

As for slogging through records to support your points, you shouldn’t have to. You should know the facts, and be able to support your arguments. Perhaps you should evaluate your news sources. Matthews is hardly liberal–his brother is running for office as a Republican in Pennsylvania, and Matthews regularly speaks at Republican party events.

Instead of O’Reilly, switch over to Keith Olbermann for a different perspective. Or is that too much work for you, too?

[PD]

Since you are so hung up on the “facts” KJM, why don’t YOU compile a complete list of military service for all of our elected officials?

[PD]

KJM, I stated that I have not watched Chris Matthews in years and can’t speak for his current views. Do all people agree with their siblings? Are party lines written in DNA?

[Anonymous]

Democrats

* Richard Gephardt: Air National Guard, 1965-71.
* David Bonior: Staff Sgt., Air Force 1968-72.
* Tom Daschle: 1st Lt., Air Force SAC 1969-72.
* Al Gore: enlisted Aug. 1969; sent to Vietnam Jan.
1971 as an army journalist in 20th Engineer Brigade.
* Bob Kerrey: Lt. j.g. Navy 1966-69; Medal of Honor, Vietnam.
* Daniel Inouye: Army 1943-’47; Medal of Honor, WWII.
* John Kerry: Lt., Navy 1966-70; Silver Star, Bronze
Star with Combat V Purple Hearts.
* John Edwards: did not serve.
* Charles Rangel: Staff Sgt., Army 1948-52; Bronze Star, Korea.
* Max Cleland: Captain, Army 1965-68; Silver Star & Bronze Star, Vietnam.
* Ted Kennedy: Army, 1951-1953.
* Tom Harkin: Lt., Navy, 1962-67; Naval Reserve,1968-74.
* Jack Reed: Army Ranger, 1971-1979; Captain, Army
Reserve 1979-91.
* Fritz Hollings: Army officer in WWII, receiving the Bronze Star and seven campaign ribbons.
* Leonard Boswell: Lt. Col., Army 1956-76; Vietnam, DFCs, Bronze Stars, and Soldier’s Medal.
* Pete Peterson: Air Force Captain, POW. Purple Heart, Silver Star and Legion of Merit.
* Mike Thompson: Staff sergeant, 173rd Airborne, Purple Heart.
* Bill McBride: Candidate for Fla. Governor. Marine in Vietnam; Bronze Star with Combat V.
* Gray Davis: Army Captain in Vietnam, Bronze Star.
* Pete Stark: Air Force 1955-57
* Chuck Robb: Vietnam
* Howell Heflin: Silver Star
* George McGovern: Bomber pilot, many missions. Silver Star & DFC during WWII.
* Bill Clinton: Avoided service. with student deferments. Entered draft but received 311.
* Jimmy Carter: Annapolis grad. Seven years in the Navy.
* Walter Mondale: Army 1951-1953
* John Glenn: WWII and Korea; six DFCs and Air Medal with 18 Clusters.
* Tom Lantos: Said to have served in Hungarian underground in WWII. Saved by Raoul
Wallenberg.
* Wesley Clark: U.S. Army, 1966-2000, West Point,
Vietnam, Purple Heart, Silver Star. Retired 4-star general.
* John Dingell: WWII vet
* John Conyers: Army 1950-57, Korea

Republicans

* Dennis Hastert: did not serve.
* Tom Delay: did not serve.
* House Whiip Roy Blunt: did not serve.
* Bill Frist: did not serve.
* Rudy Giuliani: did not serve.
* George Pataki: did not serve.
* Mitch McConnell: did not serve.
* Rick Santorum: did not serve.
* Trent Lott: did not serve.
* Dick Cheney: did not serve. Had “other priorities.”
Several deferments, the last for wife’s pregnancy.
* John Ashcroft: did not serve. Seven deferments to teach business.
* Jeb Bush: did not serve.
* Karl Rove: did not serve.
* Saxby Chambliss: did not serve. “Bad knee.” The man who attacked Max Cleland’s patriotism.
* Paul Wolfowitz: did not serve.
* Vin Weber: did not serve.
* Richard Perle: did not serve.
* Douglas Feith: did not serve.
* Eliot Abrams: did not serve.
* Richard Shelby: did not serve.
* Jon Kyl: did not serve.
* Tim Hutchison: did not serve.
* Christopher Cox: did not serve.
* Newt Gingrich: did not serve.
* Donald Rumsfeld: served in Navy (1954-57) as aviator and flight instructor.
* George W. Bush: six-year Nat’l Guard commitment (infour).
Issues of desertion and unfitness.
* Ronald Reagan: made war propaganda movies.
* Gerald Ford: Navy, WWII
* Phil Gramm: did not serve.
* John McCain: Silver Star, Bronze Star, Legion of
Merit, Purple Heart and Distinguished Flying Cross.
* Bob Dole: Army officer WWII.
* Chuck Hagel: two Purple Hearts and a Bronze Star, Vietnam.
* Duke Cunningham: nominated for Medal of Honor, Navy
Cross, Silver Stars, Air Medals, Purple Hearts.
* Jeff Sessions: Army Reserves, 1973-1986
* JC Watts: did not serve.
* Lindsey Graham: National Guard lawyer.
* G.H.W. Bush: Pilot in WWII. Shot down by the Japanese.
* Tom Ridge: Bronze Star for Valor in Vietnam.
* Antonin Scalia: did not serve.
* Clarence Thomas: did not serve

[PD]

That is certainly a list (of something). What exactly were your parameters for including or excluding people? You have some currently serving, some formerly serving, some appointed people. You still aren’t proving anything.

[Anonymous]

PD

You ask “Are party lines written in DNA?”

I don’t know. It doesn’t seem like any facts can change your mind.

You state “You still aren’t proving anything.”

Maybe not to you.

[PD]

If you really wanted to provide proof or facts, you would provide complete lists. For instance, you have included some Supreme Court Justices. Where are the rest of them? You have included people appointed during this administration. Have you included people appointed to those same posts during a democratic presidency?

There may a be a few people out there nodding their heads as they read your “list.” Those people were in agreement with you before they even started reading. I doubt that you have persuaded anyone to your side who did not already start out with that bias.

[sdcellar]

Not picking sides, but those are canned lists that have been floating around for a long time. That is not research. Note the bias of the list:

First democrat entry
Richard Gephardt: Air National Guard, 1965-71.

Comparable service from the republican list
George W. Bush: six-year Nat’l Guard commitment (infour).
Issues of desertion and unfitness.

Yeperoo, no bias there. The first one states the facts (fine), the second’s got the slant.

If it were an unbiased list, it would just print the facts and it would be complete.

[Anonymous]

A basic truism is that if you tell a person don’t think of an elephant, they immediate think of an elephant.

I may not have persuaded you, but you took the time to read the list thoroughly enought to question the details.

So by all means, don’t pay attention to the list, or the consequences this war is having on the soldiers who fight it. Look at that shiny thing over there, you know, Kerry with his foot in his mouth. Good boy.

[PD]

Like my admission that I could be wrong about Matthews, you could have stood up and admitted that your list was incomplete and biased. Instead, you tried to condemn me for not paying attention to the consequences this war is having on the soldiers who fight it.

My husband served in Iraq. He is active duty. I have many, many friends and neighbors who have served, are serving and/or will be serving in Iraq again. I see the consequences all the time.

[Anonymous]

While JFK’s comment does not sound nice, it is a fact that majority of people who end up in Iraq would rather be somewhere else. Very few are there because they want to “defend the democracy”. They are there because they had no better options. They took money from the military and now is the pay back time.

The sad part is that they do not recognize that JFK is actually on their side. He is the one who is fighting to bring them back home. They do not recognize that they are dying there for Bush and his oil buddies, not for democracy.

[Anonymous]

To all:

The list provided is completely factual, and yes, from a partisan source. I am also partisan, as has been pointed out, so I see no disengeniousness in these posts.

PD
I apologize for implying you do not see the consequences. I hope that we can disagree respectfully, but I wish nothing but the best for you and your family during these difficult times.

[Author]

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