JFK: Defending the Indefensible

[zk]

jg, your challenge to defend Kerry is typical of the narrow-minded, extremely partisan approach that is all too common today. Just because you defend all conservatives, regardless of how screwed up they are, doesn’t mean that a person who can think well would do the same for their side. Just because I think Bush and the republicans are destroying our country and needlessly killing thousands of Americans doesn’t mean that I like or will defend John Kerry. I think Kerry is a very poor excuse for a politician. I think that to say what he said (in prepared remarks, no less) shows a fantastic ignorance of a)how the right would respond and b) how ordinary people (voters) would respond.

Take PD’s, “Kerry just spit in the eye of all service members, current, past and future” comment. That’s the typical response of someone who wants to ignore what Kerry was so incredibly feebly trying to say, and focus on what partisan gains can be obtained by slamming him. Kerry didn’t spit in his own eye. He was attempting to point out that, for many Americans, the only route to college or decent pay is the military. And that for those Americans, Bush may very well get them killed or maimed. But he did it in such an amazingly inept way that only one response could be expected. And the typical such response was PD’s. Kerry deserves what he gets for being such an idiot.

As BuyerWillEPB said, “I see more honor, respect, and goal oriented teamwork from the vets, and more cut-throat, individualistic weakness, and arrogance from the pampered rich kids.” Which may explain the cut-throat, individualistic weakness and arrogance so common in the Bush administration. Most of them are spoiled, pampered rich kids and very few are combat vets. Kerry was a spoiled, pampered rich kid who went to combat anyway. Either way, there’s no excuse for saying something so stupid.

[Anonymous]

PC, dz, zk and other wild-eyed libs/progressives, here's some data, comparing the military to civilians:

http://www.dod.mil/prhome/poprep98/html/overview.html

I recommend that you move your eyes down to "Education Level" and "AFQT Scores."

For you short attention span liberals/progressives/daytraders, here's what it says:  the average military person is more apt to have a high school diploma or GED certificate than the average civilian and has, on average, a higher IQ (AFQT correlates well with IQ; read the "Bell Curve").

Message to JFK:  you not only showed poor judgement, you were wrong.

[blahblahblah]

Oh, one more thing, let’s quit painting everyone with such a broad brush, shall we? Not all democrats are pampered, brie-eating surrender monkeys, not all republicans are crazed fundamentalist fascists, and not all military folks are perfect. All are people, plain and simple, with strengths, weaknesses, faults, and foibles. Did anyone else see this in the news recently?

[PerryChase]

Enlisted military are not dumb. They simply lack the opportunies and financial wherewithal to go to college. Many use the military as a stepping stone to bigger and better things.

I admire the military for being the most egalitarian institution in our country.

But the military it a bloated institution that needs reform and not more money. I actually support Rumsfeld (except for the Iraq debacle) for wanting to right-size the military and make it into a more nibble force. Rumsfeld had the force of character, the personality, the personal rapport with Bush and Cheney, and the smarts to make it happen. Unfortunately, Iraq has set us back 30 years.

If anyone could have reformed the military it was a Republican like Rumsfeld. The bloated military industrial complex should thank Iraq for saving it.

[JES]

I am on vacation in the mountains for a month right now, but I can’t resist posting on this one! Can someone please explain to me how Kerry’s comments were directed at the President and not the troops? In a broad sense, I can see that he might have been slamming the President’s policies, but wasn’t he also making the point, through a failed joke, that our troops are uneducated and that our soldiers have somehow been forced into serving due to lack of education?

We have a volunteer force, so the fact that most of our troops don’t have degrees is irrelevant. In fact, the military provides many of these folks with discipline and money so that they can go on to get education after they serve, unlike their peers who are still smoking weed back on the block. And I think every officer and enlisted servicemember with a degree should be offended by these remarks as well. Some of my friends in the service went to Ivy League schools and I know one guy who did undergrad at Harvard and has a law degree from Stanford. He’s in the Marines because he volunteered, like all the rest!

If Kerry was trying to say that the military is the only route for some to college and a good paying job, that is also untrue. There are plently of alternatives, and when someone joins the military it should not be for the college money or they pay. They should join with the full expectation that they will be sent to war and die in combat for their country. Are we supposed to feel bad that our troops are doing what they are supposed to be doing and fighting in a war – one that John Kerry himself voted for?

[Anonymous]

JES, sorry to ruin your fantasy but most poeple enlist in the military for the money and benefits. They SHOULD have the full expectation of going to war if called, but they may or many not be thinking about that when they enlist. Also, for many, the military is the only route to college and a good paying job. I’d like to hear some of your alternatives.

It is common knowledge (and common sense) that military recruiters purposely target low income neighborhoods. The percentage of blacks and hispanics in the Army, for example, is MUCH highter than the in population as a whole. Upper middle class white people generally do not enlist. Does this make them less patriotic?

By the way, most of the Bush adminstration didn’t enlist either. Karl Rove is another example of a college droput who never served one day in the military.

[sdrebear]

Is any of this discussion REALLY about how “smart” our military is? After six years of speech blunders of the greatest magnitude ever, are we really nit-picking on this one? Do we really have to bust out every single misspoken thing Bush said to counter this?

There is only one that really still burns me. How about the one where Bush said he really “wasn’t concerned” about finding the person responsible for nearly 3000 U.S. civilian deaths? Hey, I think he actually MEANT to say that one! I’m sure the children of the lost firefighters (and everyone else for that matter) were happy to learn how much he cared. (By the way, apparently now that it’s election time, he cares again… Video)

Anyway, Kerry was a dork (again) and inadvertently dropped one single word (us) from his already lame joke and turned it into an unintended slam on the military (basically himself as well). I highly doubt that was ever the intention. To make SUCH a big deal out of something so easily recognized as unintentional is laughable, but that’s what we are sometimes I guess.

So, what again is Kerry running for this year? Oh, that’s right, nothing. Why does he matter right now? That’s right, he doesn’t. Don’t like him or what he said? Fine, please don’t vote for him in two years. Until then, there are MUCH more important things to worry about.

[JES]

I save my fantasies for more private moments and wouldn’t dare share them here at Piggington:)

For starters, with unemployment at near all time lows and the economy strong I would recommend getting a job! Even better, become a plumber, electrician, pipefitter or any other trade related job where you can get in at entry level, get training and eventually make good money.

Secondly, it may very well be the case that recruiters target certain groups, that people join for the money and GI Bill or that a larger percentage of minorities join the enlisted ranks and upper class whites do not serve. None of these take away from the responsibility that is placed on an 18 year old adult to make a personal decision whether or not to volunteer to serve. And we should not assume that these volunteers were all somehow forced to join, feel sorry for them because they are doing a job that they signed up to do and then broadly attack those serving in Iraq as being uneducated.

Lastly, a large number of people in every administration that has ever been in office have served without military experience, so your point is irrelevant. And by the way, if Kerry’s comments were valid wouldn’t Karl Rove be serving as a grunt in Iraq right now since he is uneducated and dropped out of school?

[Anonymous]

JES, there is not a single job that an 18 year old kid, with no education or money, can get that equals the money and benefits of the military (other than being a real estate agent over the last 5 years). That being said, all of your job ideas were good, but they generally require going to a trade school of some type. And these cost money. For some kid in the ghetto with no money and no chance at going to school, then joining the military becomes a no-brainer.

[zk]

“PC, dz, zk and other wild-eyed libs/progressives,”

jg, I’m curious about something. Do you have any idea what an ignorant fool you sound like to reasonable people when you talk like that? Partisanship of the type that you and Rush Limbaugh routinely display is an indicator of a lack of ability to think for yourself. Can you think for yourself? Are there any areas in which you don’t agree with Rush? Or are you just a simpleton who can’t come up with any of his own ideas?

[Anonymous]

[img_assist|nid=1946|title= IraK|desc=|link=node|align=left|width=466|height=223]

zk, it's so easy to 'get your goat.'

Hilarious photo from Drudge.

For being a bunch of dummies, they sure know how to deliver the joke correctly!  JFK, take note!

[blahblahblah]

Last comment from me and then I think I’m going to have to put in a web filter to keep me off of this site permanently. Kerry left out one word — “us” — from his comments and the right-wing hacks are hanging him out to dry and distracting the rest of us from what the real issues in this election are: the war, immigration, energy independence, taxes, health care, stem cell research, etc… Notice I don’t include gay marriage or flag burning in that list.

Here you go, everyone…

http://msnbc.msn.com/id/15512797/

Now back to sleep. Ignorance is strength. War is peace. Freedom is slavery.

[woodrow]

For you short attention span liberals/progressives/daytraders, here's what it says: the average military person is more apt to have a high school diploma or GED certificate than the average civilian and has, on average, a higher IQ (AFQT correlates well with IQ; read the "Bell Curve").

 
This doesn't refute what Kerry said, and actually lends support to the idea that the military isn't where we send our "best and brightest". Those with the highest test scores and best grades hardly ever opt for military careers.

[blahblahblah]

AAAAAAARRRRGH! Kerry didn’t say that military folks were poorly educated, he simply fumbled his words. ARRRRRGH! I don’t even LIKE John Kerry and here I am wasting my time correcting you people. I’M A F***ING REPUBLICAN and here I am defending the flip-flopping mumblemouthed Senator from Massachusetts. Why do I still visit this site? ARRRRRRGH!

This country is doomed. Go back to watching “American Idol” everyone. Nothing to see here. All is well. Get ready for the Two Minutes Hate this afternoon, I hear it’s going to be a good one!

[zk]

That is a damn funny picture, indeed.

For the record, you didn’t “get my goat.” Those weren’t rhetorical questions. I’m actually curious whether you have any ideas of your own.

[Author]

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