Is San Diego overpriced or is it just corrected?

[cyphire]

Yup… It’s no Orange County which has the same weather by the way! Our industry is second tier and the housing prices are insane. I don’t think that San Diego – sleepy as it is ever had the same type of neighborhoods and money that a lot of other cities have. I like it here… Don’t get me wrong. But I’m from New York City and this place is cow town. I have recently looked at Seattle and liked what I saw. But after a week there with no sunshine, decided I couldn’t hack it.

I think that it is insanely overpriced. As the economy softens a lot of people will be trying to sell to cash out. They are in for a rude awakening. We have diversified here in town, but we are still tiny industry-wise compared to other places. The level of debt here matches or exceeds any place in the country because of the home prices.

More importantly – the cost of doing business here is very high. Home prices for employees, electricity, water, wages, a work force that goes surfing!!!!, ahhh for a wet weather climate where people stay at their desks!

I think that the corrections will stay in place for many years to come. I have no crystal ball though – time will tell.

[GoUSC]

lniles;

I think you bring up some good points but I can’t totally agree. Being a San Diego native and having lived most of my 30 years here I think that are many attractive things about San Diego. The weather, of course, is the most obvious but it impacts so many other things. By and large, in San Diego you can do outdoor activities year round. For someone like me who spends his leisure time sailing, golfing, etc. this is the ideal city. You don’t have that anywhere in the US (save Hawaii). True you can do snow sports but really that is not nearly, to me, as fun or involving. San Diego doesn’t have much industry I agree. But it is a great place to raise a family with good schools and lots of outdoor activity. I have lived elsewhere including Los Angeles, Copenhagen Denmark and Hamburg, Germany and while all of those places have great attributes it comes back to the weather and what in allows you to do year round. Given all this I should qualify that I did grow up in a well off family on Mt. Soledad which definately has an impact. San Diego is definately not the ideal place to live if you are a median wage earner. Too much money goes to the “sun tax”.

And I take offense to your comment Balboa Park is a joke. I love it. But again, I am a San Diegan so I am biased. 🙂

Curious, what cities do you consider “superior” to San Diego and why?

[GoUSC]

lniles;

I think you bring up some good points but I can’t totally agree. Being a San Diego native and having lived most of my 30 years here I think that are many attractive things about San Diego. The weather, of course, is the most obvious but it impacts so many other things. By and large, in San Diego you can do outdoor activities year round. For someone like me who spends his leisure time sailing, golfing, etc. this is the ideal city. You don’t have that anywhere in the US (save Hawaii). True you can do snow sports but really that is not nearly, to me, as fun or involving. San Diego doesn’t have much industry I agree. But it is a great place to raise a family with good schools and lots of outdoor activity. I have lived elsewhere including Los Angeles, Copenhagen Denmark and Hamburg, Germany and while all of those places have great attributes it comes back to the weather and what in allows you to do year round. Given all this I should qualify that I did grow up in a well off family on Mt. Soledad which definately has an impact. San Diego is definately not the ideal place to live if you are a median wage earner. Too much money goes to the “sun tax”.

And I take offense to your comment Balboa Park is a joke. I love it. But again, I am a San Diegan so I am biased. 🙂

Curious, what cities do you consider “superior” to San Diego and why?

[GoUSC]

lniles;

I think you bring up some good points but I can’t totally agree. Being a San Diego native and having lived most of my 30 years here I think that are many attractive things about San Diego. The weather, of course, is the most obvious but it impacts so many other things. By and large, in San Diego you can do outdoor activities year round. For someone like me who spends his leisure time sailing, golfing, etc. this is the ideal city. You don’t have that anywhere in the US (save Hawaii). True you can do snow sports but really that is not nearly, to me, as fun or involving. San Diego doesn’t have much industry I agree. But it is a great place to raise a family with good schools and lots of outdoor activity. I have lived elsewhere including Los Angeles, Copenhagen Denmark and Hamburg, Germany and while all of those places have great attributes it comes back to the weather and what in allows you to do year round. Given all this I should qualify that I did grow up in a well off family on Mt. Soledad which definately has an impact. San Diego is definately not the ideal place to live if you are a median wage earner. Too much money goes to the “sun tax”.

And I take offense to your comment Balboa Park is a joke. I love it. But again, I am a San Diegan so I am biased. 🙂

Curious, what cities do you consider “superior” to San Diego and why?

[lniles]

Hi Radelow,

I came here from LA in 1991 to attend UCSD and have spent most of my time here since then but also travel quite a bit (the longest being a one-year stint in Tokyo). I bought my condo in SD in 1999. Tokyo is like home to me, I speak the language and accumulated over 5 years traveling, working, and schooling in Japan. Nothing can even come close to the numerous things you can do and see for free in a country which is smaller than half the size of California. When my friends or family visit San Diego, I am ashamed to not have anything to do besides take them to the beach (we’re not Sea World or Legoland types) but that gets boring quickly.

I like Tokyo because I’m very much a city person. I like active, vibrant places with a pulse. To me San Diego is flat-line. I spoil myself every year going to Vienna for Opera (it’s not boring when you see it as it’s supposed to be). I collect art. Balboa park has very little of any interest, it’s more of a strip mall with some mildly interesting architecture than anything else. The museum exhibits are decrepit relics (as opposed to fascinating antiquities). I see better displays at granny’s house.

Chicago is superior in food, parks, and museums, as is New York, L.A., San Francisco, and Boston to name a few. If you like clubs, pretty much anywhere is better than SD (I mean come on, how many pseudo-salsa dance places or techno-trance-hip-hop clubs filled with drunken white people do we need in the gaslamp?). I’ve tried all the jazz clubs, no thrill there. Comedy? Lame (Avenue Q was nice, but it’s from NYC). Restaurants? Nope. I think all the cooks in SD were trained by the Denny’s master chef (unless, of course, you go high-end). I went to a restaurant that called itself Indian (downtown) and it was blond-haired waitresses (I think they also came from Denny’s) with bindi on their forehead serving week-old bread and calling it nan. Most sushi places here serve Korean versions of Japanese food but SD folks don’t know the difference as long as someone yells irashai when you walk in.

I have so much to write about but don’t want to overdo it any more than I already have. Just to answer your question cities I personally find superior in some ways are:

NYC
Vienna
Tokyo
SF
Chicago
Boston
Budapest

Like you said, SD is all about the weather. The places I listed above don’t fare as well in that respect and don’t have proximity to the Pacific (though I am an avid snowboarder). For me, it’s also about the money.

[lniles]

Hi Radelow,

I came here from LA in 1991 to attend UCSD and have spent most of my time here since then but also travel quite a bit (the longest being a one-year stint in Tokyo). I bought my condo in SD in 1999. Tokyo is like home to me, I speak the language and accumulated over 5 years traveling, working, and schooling in Japan. Nothing can even come close to the numerous things you can do and see for free in a country which is smaller than half the size of California. When my friends or family visit San Diego, I am ashamed to not have anything to do besides take them to the beach (we’re not Sea World or Legoland types) but that gets boring quickly.

I like Tokyo because I’m very much a city person. I like active, vibrant places with a pulse. To me San Diego is flat-line. I spoil myself every year going to Vienna for Opera (it’s not boring when you see it as it’s supposed to be). I collect art. Balboa park has very little of any interest, it’s more of a strip mall with some mildly interesting architecture than anything else. The museum exhibits are decrepit relics (as opposed to fascinating antiquities). I see better displays at granny’s house.

Chicago is superior in food, parks, and museums, as is New York, L.A., San Francisco, and Boston to name a few. If you like clubs, pretty much anywhere is better than SD (I mean come on, how many pseudo-salsa dance places or techno-trance-hip-hop clubs filled with drunken white people do we need in the gaslamp?). I’ve tried all the jazz clubs, no thrill there. Comedy? Lame (Avenue Q was nice, but it’s from NYC). Restaurants? Nope. I think all the cooks in SD were trained by the Denny’s master chef (unless, of course, you go high-end). I went to a restaurant that called itself Indian (downtown) and it was blond-haired waitresses (I think they also came from Denny’s) with bindi on their forehead serving week-old bread and calling it nan. Most sushi places here serve Korean versions of Japanese food but SD folks don’t know the difference as long as someone yells irashai when you walk in.

I have so much to write about but don’t want to overdo it any more than I already have. Just to answer your question cities I personally find superior in some ways are:

NYC
Vienna
Tokyo
SF
Chicago
Boston
Budapest

Like you said, SD is all about the weather. The places I listed above don’t fare as well in that respect and don’t have proximity to the Pacific (though I am an avid snowboarder). For me, it’s also about the money.

[lniles]

Hi Radelow,

I came here from LA in 1991 to attend UCSD and have spent most of my time here since then but also travel quite a bit (the longest being a one-year stint in Tokyo). I bought my condo in SD in 1999. Tokyo is like home to me, I speak the language and accumulated over 5 years traveling, working, and schooling in Japan. Nothing can even come close to the numerous things you can do and see for free in a country which is smaller than half the size of California. When my friends or family visit San Diego, I am ashamed to not have anything to do besides take them to the beach (we’re not Sea World or Legoland types) but that gets boring quickly.

I like Tokyo because I’m very much a city person. I like active, vibrant places with a pulse. To me San Diego is flat-line. I spoil myself every year going to Vienna for Opera (it’s not boring when you see it as it’s supposed to be). I collect art. Balboa park has very little of any interest, it’s more of a strip mall with some mildly interesting architecture than anything else. The museum exhibits are decrepit relics (as opposed to fascinating antiquities). I see better displays at granny’s house.

Chicago is superior in food, parks, and museums, as is New York, L.A., San Francisco, and Boston to name a few. If you like clubs, pretty much anywhere is better than SD (I mean come on, how many pseudo-salsa dance places or techno-trance-hip-hop clubs filled with drunken white people do we need in the gaslamp?). I’ve tried all the jazz clubs, no thrill there. Comedy? Lame (Avenue Q was nice, but it’s from NYC). Restaurants? Nope. I think all the cooks in SD were trained by the Denny’s master chef (unless, of course, you go high-end). I went to a restaurant that called itself Indian (downtown) and it was blond-haired waitresses (I think they also came from Denny’s) with bindi on their forehead serving week-old bread and calling it nan. Most sushi places here serve Korean versions of Japanese food but SD folks don’t know the difference as long as someone yells irashai when you walk in.

I have so much to write about but don’t want to overdo it any more than I already have. Just to answer your question cities I personally find superior in some ways are:

NYC
Vienna
Tokyo
SF
Chicago
Boston
Budapest

Like you said, SD is all about the weather. The places I listed above don’t fare as well in that respect and don’t have proximity to the Pacific (though I am an avid snowboarder). For me, it’s also about the money.

[GoUSC]

Fair enough…In comparison to cities like Chicago, New York, San Francisco I see your point. Regarding food there is, imho, plenty of good cuisine here but yes it is the highend. Unless you like Mexican (love it) which there is plenty of good cheap stuff around. I agree about your part on Balboa museums. I don’t really go there for that, it’s more about walking around the park, the zoo etc. that I find so enjoying. I have been a 10+ year season ticket holder to the Old Globe and have always enjoyed the productions (many going on to Broadway). Plus we good get our fair share of productions from Broadway. But again, at the end of the day, this isn’t a cultural mecca. It’s all about the weather. Oh and I can’t stand the food or the clubs in the Gaslamp.

That’s why I spend 4+ weeks a year abroad. Usually Europe. But this year it’s 3 weeks in Japan and China (First time to Asia!!!) in October and then 2 weeks in the BVI on a sailboat (ok not very cultured, but great way to unwind!)…

Oh and Avenue Q was hilarious!!!

[GoUSC]

Fair enough…In comparison to cities like Chicago, New York, San Francisco I see your point. Regarding food there is, imho, plenty of good cuisine here but yes it is the highend. Unless you like Mexican (love it) which there is plenty of good cheap stuff around. I agree about your part on Balboa museums. I don’t really go there for that, it’s more about walking around the park, the zoo etc. that I find so enjoying. I have been a 10+ year season ticket holder to the Old Globe and have always enjoyed the productions (many going on to Broadway). Plus we good get our fair share of productions from Broadway. But again, at the end of the day, this isn’t a cultural mecca. It’s all about the weather. Oh and I can’t stand the food or the clubs in the Gaslamp.

That’s why I spend 4+ weeks a year abroad. Usually Europe. But this year it’s 3 weeks in Japan and China (First time to Asia!!!) in October and then 2 weeks in the BVI on a sailboat (ok not very cultured, but great way to unwind!)…

Oh and Avenue Q was hilarious!!!

[GoUSC]

Fair enough…In comparison to cities like Chicago, New York, San Francisco I see your point. Regarding food there is, imho, plenty of good cuisine here but yes it is the highend. Unless you like Mexican (love it) which there is plenty of good cheap stuff around. I agree about your part on Balboa museums. I don’t really go there for that, it’s more about walking around the park, the zoo etc. that I find so enjoying. I have been a 10+ year season ticket holder to the Old Globe and have always enjoyed the productions (many going on to Broadway). Plus we good get our fair share of productions from Broadway. But again, at the end of the day, this isn’t a cultural mecca. It’s all about the weather. Oh and I can’t stand the food or the clubs in the Gaslamp.

That’s why I spend 4+ weeks a year abroad. Usually Europe. But this year it’s 3 weeks in Japan and China (First time to Asia!!!) in October and then 2 weeks in the BVI on a sailboat (ok not very cultured, but great way to unwind!)…

Oh and Avenue Q was hilarious!!!

[cyphire]

I think the issue here is that San Diego is not NY, it’s not LA, it’s not Vienna, it’s not Tokyo, etc. But it is priced that way at least from a home perspective!

There is little to do here compared to a world-class city. The diversity and experience of NY makes San Diego pale in comparison.

We don’t have the industry or the business here. The housing cost vs. the business climate is way out of whack. My friend just sold his condo in NY for 650K…. It’s in the west village one of the coolest spots in Manhattan. While it is more expensive and smaller than a San Diego condo, it’s still in the same range. The difference is that NY salaries are huge compared to San Diego’s.

It was the building and the interest rates which allowed this place to go up in price the way it did. This always happens in CA. And just like before, our bottom will be much worse that the rest of the country….. Why? Because we are still San Diego, not NY, Chicago, Vienna, Stockholm, etc. And if you discount the really rich on the coast, and look at the rest of the population here, they are riding a dangerous roller coaster headed down.

By the way – perfect weather is great… But seasons are also. Most people would prefer the great weather, but fall and spring in NY blow away San Diego. Summer is hot – but there the beach is great when it is really hot – we don’t get the water temperatures or heat to make a beach great. Winter sucks in NYC – but there is fashion! Sweaters! Coats! Fur coats! Vacations! Snow!

The movers and the shakers live in NYC not in La Jolla. La Jolla is wealthy retired people. Rancho Santa Fe is wealthy retired people. The people in San Diego are great – but for example cute bubble-headed servers in restaurants don’t make this a world class city – just the opposite!

[cyphire]

I think the issue here is that San Diego is not NY, it’s not LA, it’s not Vienna, it’s not Tokyo, etc. But it is priced that way at least from a home perspective!

There is little to do here compared to a world-class city. The diversity and experience of NY makes San Diego pale in comparison.

We don’t have the industry or the business here. The housing cost vs. the business climate is way out of whack. My friend just sold his condo in NY for 650K…. It’s in the west village one of the coolest spots in Manhattan. While it is more expensive and smaller than a San Diego condo, it’s still in the same range. The difference is that NY salaries are huge compared to San Diego’s.

It was the building and the interest rates which allowed this place to go up in price the way it did. This always happens in CA. And just like before, our bottom will be much worse that the rest of the country….. Why? Because we are still San Diego, not NY, Chicago, Vienna, Stockholm, etc. And if you discount the really rich on the coast, and look at the rest of the population here, they are riding a dangerous roller coaster headed down.

By the way – perfect weather is great… But seasons are also. Most people would prefer the great weather, but fall and spring in NY blow away San Diego. Summer is hot – but there the beach is great when it is really hot – we don’t get the water temperatures or heat to make a beach great. Winter sucks in NYC – but there is fashion! Sweaters! Coats! Fur coats! Vacations! Snow!

The movers and the shakers live in NYC not in La Jolla. La Jolla is wealthy retired people. Rancho Santa Fe is wealthy retired people. The people in San Diego are great – but for example cute bubble-headed servers in restaurants don’t make this a world class city – just the opposite!

[cyphire]

I think the issue here is that San Diego is not NY, it’s not LA, it’s not Vienna, it’s not Tokyo, etc. But it is priced that way at least from a home perspective!

There is little to do here compared to a world-class city. The diversity and experience of NY makes San Diego pale in comparison.

We don’t have the industry or the business here. The housing cost vs. the business climate is way out of whack. My friend just sold his condo in NY for 650K…. It’s in the west village one of the coolest spots in Manhattan. While it is more expensive and smaller than a San Diego condo, it’s still in the same range. The difference is that NY salaries are huge compared to San Diego’s.

It was the building and the interest rates which allowed this place to go up in price the way it did. This always happens in CA. And just like before, our bottom will be much worse that the rest of the country….. Why? Because we are still San Diego, not NY, Chicago, Vienna, Stockholm, etc. And if you discount the really rich on the coast, and look at the rest of the population here, they are riding a dangerous roller coaster headed down.

By the way – perfect weather is great… But seasons are also. Most people would prefer the great weather, but fall and spring in NY blow away San Diego. Summer is hot – but there the beach is great when it is really hot – we don’t get the water temperatures or heat to make a beach great. Winter sucks in NYC – but there is fashion! Sweaters! Coats! Fur coats! Vacations! Snow!

The movers and the shakers live in NYC not in La Jolla. La Jolla is wealthy retired people. Rancho Santa Fe is wealthy retired people. The people in San Diego are great – but for example cute bubble-headed servers in restaurants don’t make this a world class city – just the opposite!

[garysears]

You are right. It is a new permanently high plateau.

I guess the only ones who don’t get it are the renters. Those are some pretty compelling arguments. I feel pretty dumb for undervaluing San Diego. I want to pay double! I’m going to the office tomorrow to renegotiate my rental contract upwards…

Once I start paying the new correctly valued rent, I can only imagine how much better my S.D. experience will be. It’s going to be awesome!

I was renting a home in San Carlos last year for $1,975. It recently listed for $600K so I believe we’ve just hit bottom. I want to get it before an astute investor jumps on the 300X rent multiple. Can anyone hook me up with a 110% LTV I/O?

P.S. Just imagine if people were to begin valuing speculative appreciation over plain ownership. The lid would absolutely fly off the market!!!!

[garysears]

You are right. It is a new permanently high plateau.

I guess the only ones who don’t get it are the renters. Those are some pretty compelling arguments. I feel pretty dumb for undervaluing San Diego. I want to pay double! I’m going to the office tomorrow to renegotiate my rental contract upwards…

Once I start paying the new correctly valued rent, I can only imagine how much better my S.D. experience will be. It’s going to be awesome!

I was renting a home in San Carlos last year for $1,975. It recently listed for $600K so I believe we’ve just hit bottom. I want to get it before an astute investor jumps on the 300X rent multiple. Can anyone hook me up with a 110% LTV I/O?

P.S. Just imagine if people were to begin valuing speculative appreciation over plain ownership. The lid would absolutely fly off the market!!!!

[Author]

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